I have a dream - Printable Version

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RE: I have a dream - Austroturf - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 01:51 PM)81alum Wrote:  

(11-23-2021, 11:47 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote:  Big difference

Joe P built PSU.

Shaw inherited.

What is the FOOTBALL positive you can credit to Shaw?

David Shaw was part of Harbaugh's original team.  Shaw was a more experienced coach than Harbaugh (Shaw spent 5 years coaching in the pros, Harbaugh 2) before Harbaugh tapped Shaw for his staff at San Diego.  Shaw moved with Harbaugh when he took the Stanford job.  (Lance Anderson also came from San Diego with Harbs.)  In any case, we can't know for sure how important Shaw's influence was on Harbaugh, but I think it likely that having an alum of the Stanford program on his staff made Harbaugh's ability to recruit and adjust to the unique conditions at Stanford much easier.  It is even possible that Harbaugh would not have been successful at a place like Stanford without Shaw.  So Shaw was at least somewhat important to building the program beginning in 2007 and may have been critically important.

This is an excellent assessment.  Shaw was probably a trusted advisor to the mercurial Harbaugh, who certainly wasn't a natural fit to the Stanford environment.  In many respects, a duo like Harbaugh-Shaw is perfect: one is pushing on all fronts to improve and fight and win, and the other is moderating, tempering, steering.  The problem is when the yin is lacking the yang or vice-versa.  If Shaw is to resurrect the program, he needs a couple of Harbaughs on his staff to pressure him, make him uncomfortable, inspire him to take chances and fight for more.  Harbaugh saw that he would be more successful with somebody like Shaw; and that's probably why he pushed for Shaw to be his successor.  Shaw needs to come to a similar, but opposite conclusion: he needs the pushers and fighters in his staff.  But will he hire them?

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RE: I have a dream - martyup - 11-24-2021

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RE: I have a dream - teejers1 - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 02:14 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  

(11-24-2021, 01:51 PM)81alum Wrote:  

(11-23-2021, 11:47 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote:  Big difference

Joe P built PSU.

Shaw inherited.

What is the FOOTBALL positive you can credit to Shaw?

David Shaw was part of Harbaugh's original team.  Shaw was a more experienced coach than Harbaugh (Shaw spent 5 years coaching in the pros, Harbaugh 2) before Harbaugh tapped Shaw for his staff at San Diego.  Shaw moved with Harbaugh when he took the Stanford job.  (Lance Anderson also came from San Diego with Harbs.)  In any case, we can't know for sure how important Shaw's influence was on Harbaugh, but I think it likely that having an alum of the Stanford program on his staff made Harbaugh's ability to recruit and adjust to the unique conditions at Stanford much easier.  It is even possible that Harbaugh would not have been successful at a place like Stanford without Shaw.  So Shaw was at least somewhat important to building the program beginning in 2007 and may have been critically important.

This is an excellent assessment.  Shaw was probably a trusted advisor to the mercurial Harbaugh, who certainly wasn't a natural fit to the Stanford environment.  In many respects, a duo like Harbaugh-Shaw is perfect: one is pushing on all fronts to improve and fight and win, and the other is moderating, tempering, steering.  The problem is when the yin is lacking the yang or vice-versa.  If Shaw is to resurrect the program, he needs a couple of Harbaughs on his staff to pressure him, make him uncomfortable, inspire him to take chances and fight for more.  Harbaugh saw that he would be more successful with somebody like Shaw; and that's probably why he pushed for Shaw to be his successor.  Shaw needs to come to a similar, but opposite conclusion: he needs the pushers and fighters in his staff.  But will he hire them?

Harbaugh did not push Shaw to be his successor (Doug Baldwin did);

Harbaugh would have had little credibility had he done so, inasmuch as there were reports reflecting changes in job responsibilities while at Stanford under Shaw;  

Harbaugh also did not invite Shaw to join him with the 'Niners (which was probably a moot point, anyway, as Shaw wanted and got the gig at Stanford);

I don't discount the possibility (or even likelihood) that Shaw helped Harbs navigate all that is being HC at Stanford football.  At the same time, the assumption that Shaw was vital to the Harbaugh success is based on what, exactly?  There is a whole 'nother possibility, that Sea Hang posted on TOS re: serendipity being with Shaw from the jump. 

As a reminder: Harbaugh was at USD for 3 years 2004 (7-4), 2005 (11-1), and 2006 (11-1).  Harbaugh invited Shaw to join him from The Ravens' staff (query how that happened?) prior to the 2006 season.  So Harbs had already established USD as a power before bringing Shaw on board.  Then, after one year, Harbaugh gets tapped to be the head coach at Shaw's alma mater.  That's pretty serendipitous . . . wouldn't you say?

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RE: I have a dream - gailtate - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 03:52 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(11-24-2021, 02:14 PM)Austroturf Wrote:  

(11-24-2021, 01:51 PM)81alum Wrote:  

(11-23-2021, 11:47 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote:  Big difference

Joe P built PSU.

Shaw inherited.

What is the FOOTBALL positive you can credit to Shaw?

David Shaw was part of Harbaugh's original team.  Shaw was a more experienced coach than Harbaugh (Shaw spent 5 years coaching in the pros, Harbaugh 2) before Harbaugh tapped Shaw for his staff at San Diego.  Shaw moved with Harbaugh when he took the Stanford job.  (Lance Anderson also came from San Diego with Harbs.)  In any case, we can't know for sure how important Shaw's influence was on Harbaugh, but I think it likely that having an alum of the Stanford program on his staff made Harbaugh's ability to recruit and adjust to the unique conditions at Stanford much easier.  It is even possible that Harbaugh would not have been successful at a place like Stanford without Shaw.  So Shaw was at least somewhat important to building the program beginning in 2007 and may have been critically important.

This is an excellent assessment.  Shaw was probably a trusted advisor to the mercurial Harbaugh, who certainly wasn't a natural fit to the Stanford environment.  In many respects, a duo like Harbaugh-Shaw is perfect: one is pushing on all fronts to improve and fight and win, and the other is moderating, tempering, steering.  The problem is when the yin is lacking the yang or vice-versa.  If Shaw is to resurrect the program, he needs a couple of Harbaughs on his staff to pressure him, make him uncomfortable, inspire him to take chances and fight for more.  Harbaugh saw that he would be more successful with somebody like Shaw; and that's probably why he pushed for Shaw to be his successor.  Shaw needs to come to a similar, but opposite conclusion: he needs the pushers and fighters in his staff.  But will he hire them?

Harbaugh did not push Shaw to be his successor (Doug Baldwin did);

Harbaugh would have had little credibility had he done so, inasmuch as there were reports reflecting changes in job responsibilities while at Stanford under Shaw;  

Harbaugh also did not invite Shaw to join him with the 'Niners (which was probably a moot point, anyway, as Shaw wanted and got the gig at Stanford);

I don't discount the possibility (or even likelihood) that Shaw helped Harbs navigate all that is being HC at Stanford football.  At the same time, the assumption that Shaw was vital to the Harbaugh success is based on what, exactly?  There is a whole 'nother possibility, that Sea Hang posted on TOS re: serendipity being with Shaw from the jump. 

As a reminder: Harbaugh was at USD for 3 years 2004 (7-4), 2005 (11-1), and 2006 (11-1).  Harbaugh invited Shaw to join him from The Ravens' staff (query how that happened?) prior to the 2006 season.  So Harbs had already established USD as a power before bringing Shaw on board.  Then, after one year, Harbaugh gets tapped to be the head coach at Shaw's alma mater.  That's pretty serendipitous . . . wouldn't you say?

As the Sickos would say:  "Yes...ha-ha-ha...Yes!"

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RE: I have a dream - Goose - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 03:52 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  As a reminder: Harbaugh was at USD for 3 years 2004 (7-4), 2005 (11-1), and 2006 (11-1).  Harbaugh invited Shaw to join him from The Ravens' staff (query how that happened?) prior to the 2006 season.  So Harbs had already established USD as a power before bringing Shaw on board.  Then, after one year, Harbaugh gets tapped to be the head coach at Shaw's alma mater.  That's pretty serendipitous . . . wouldn't you say?

I would say that what I know of this history, and probably what anybody here actually knows of this history, is slim and none. We are building theories based on the conjectures of outsiders connecting events together that may or may not have anything to do with each other. This is the Internet. That's what we do. But please, lets not confuse this speculation with any reality.

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RE: I have a dream - teejers1 - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 05:11 PM)Goose Wrote:  

(11-24-2021, 03:52 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  As a reminder: Harbaugh was at USD for 3 years 2004 (7-4), 2005 (11-1), and 2006 (11-1).  Harbaugh invited Shaw to join him from The Ravens' staff (query how that happened?) prior to the 2006 season.  So Harbs had already established USD as a power before bringing Shaw on board.  Then, after one year, Harbaugh gets tapped to be the head coach at Shaw's alma mater.  That's pretty serendipitous . . . wouldn't you say?

I would say that what I know of this history, and probably what anybody here actually knows of this history, is slim and none. We are building theories based on the conjectures of outsiders connecting events together that may or may not have anything to do with each other. This is the Internet. That's what we do. But please, lets not confuse this speculation with any reality.

The only speculation in the post was an open query as to how Shaw ended up at USD.  The rest - and particularly the reality that Harbs gained success at USD before Shaw even arrived - is just a fact.  It's also a fact that after one year at USD, Harbs was offered the HC position at Stanford, Shaw's alma mater.

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RE: I have a dream - Goose - 11-24-2021

(11-24-2021, 09:44 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(11-24-2021, 05:11 PM)Goose Wrote:  

(11-24-2021, 03:52 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  As a reminder: Harbaugh was at USD for 3 years 2004 (7-4), 2005 (11-1), and 2006 (11-1).  Harbaugh invited Shaw to join him from The Ravens' staff (query how that happened?) prior to the 2006 season.  So Harbs had already established USD as a power before bringing Shaw on board.  Then, after one year, Harbaugh gets tapped to be the head coach at Shaw's alma mater.  That's pretty serendipitous . . . wouldn't you say?

I would say that what I know of this history, and probably what anybody here actually knows of this history, is slim and none. We are building theories based on the conjectures of outsiders connecting events together that may or may not have anything to do with each other. This is the Internet. That's what we do. But please, lets not confuse this speculation with any reality.

The only speculation in the post was an open query as to how Shaw ended up at USD.  The rest - and particularly the reality that Harbs gained success at USD before Shaw even arrived - is just a fact.  It's also a fact that after one year at USD, Harbs was offered the HC position at Stanford, Shaw's alma mater.

Fair enough. However, as I read your "That's pretty serendipitous . . . wouldn't you say?" comment as an attempt to create a connection between the  unexplained hiring of David Shaw by Harbaugh at San Diego and the subsequent hiring of Harbaugh at Stanford. I was simply pointing out that AFAIK nobody has any evidence of such a connection. Maybe I am misinterpreting your intention and you just meant it was simply good luck and you believe it was totally a matter of chance.

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RE: I have a dream - BostonCard - 11-24-2021

I’m not quite sure of your point.  Harbaugh and Shaw pursued different career strategies. It seems to have worked out for both of them.

BC

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RE: I have a dream - Phogge - 11-25-2021

Sure has for Shaw.

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