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RE: Being Harbaugh - BobK - 01-07-2022

I was a Bob Cousy fan. Still am with 50s highlights
Where did Chamberlain score his 100?
Yes 28 of 32 was maybe still a record for most FTs made

RE: Being Harbaugh - cardcrimson - 01-07-2022

(01-07-2022, 10:04 AM)BobK Wrote:  I was a Bob Cousy fan.  Still am with 50s highlights
Where did Chamberlain score his 100?
Yes 28 of 32 was maybe still a record for most FTs made

Tied with Adrian Dantley in 84, who went 28 for 29.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/who-has-the-most-free-throws-attempted-in-a-game

RE: Being Harbaugh - gailtate - 01-07-2022

(01-07-2022, 10:04 AM)BobK Wrote:  I was a Bob Cousy fan.  Still am with 50s highlights
Where did Chamberlain score his 100?
Yes 28 of 32 was maybe still a record for most FTs made

Here's one for Phogge: How many spinners did Wilt score?

RE: Being Harbaugh - DC 86 - 01-07-2022

(01-07-2022, 10:04 AM)BobK Wrote:  Where did Chamberlain score his 100?

Chocolate City. Hershey, Pa.
(01-07-2022, 08:39 AM)lex24 Wrote:  The Destroyer once scored 20 without a miss.  I think he was 8-8 from the field and 4-4 from line.  Course no one noticed. Wilt scored 100 that night.  Not one of Darrell Imhoff’s better nights…..

Edit - I was a little off. It was 17. 8-8 but only 1-1 from line.

Attles always claimed that the lede in one of the newspaper articles about that game was that "Wilt Chamberlain and Al Attles combined for 117 points ..."

RE: Being Harbaugh - BobK - 01-07-2022

Hershey’s for you DC

RE: Being Harbaugh - BostonCard - 01-07-2022

I’m impressed with how Dr this thread has drifted from Harbaugh.

Shockingly, I don’t think the thread has drifted to our current director of football, but it’s still early.

BC

RE: Being Harbaugh - 82lsju - 01-07-2022

(01-07-2022, 02:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  I’m impressed with how Dr this thread has drifted from Harbaugh.

Shockingly, I don’t think the thread has drifted to our current director of football, but it’s still early.

BC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSUXXzN26zg

RE: Being Harbaugh - DC 86 - 01-07-2022

(01-07-2022, 02:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  I’m impressed with how Dr this thread has drifted from Harbaugh.

Shockingly, I don’t think the thread has drifted to our current director of football, but it’s still early.

BC

I'll pull this thread back to Harbaugh with the following statement:

When Harbaugh departed Stanford for the 49ers there didn't seem to be that much angst across the community at large or on this board, despite the fact that he had fundamentally changed the entire trajectory of the program following its lowest point, and installed a culture that rejected the long established excuse that Stanford could never again compete at a high level due to admissions limitations.

There was a lot of sentiment expressed along the lines of "Harbaugh is a weird personality at best and more often a difficult jerk" and "he's good at shaking things up but after a few years he burns everyone out" and "it's a blessing in disguise that he left now". Then he was essentially fired from the 49ers amid some of the same "good riddance" sentiments and it took the team five years to get back to the playoffs. Then there were calls to fire him at Michigan but he just completed his seventh season there and it was his best one yet, and the school's best in decades.

Harbaugh indeed can wear on people, but perhaps it's time to recognize that the conventional wisdom was wrong and that a team would be lucky to have him as their head coach for the long term?

I absolutely don't want to rekindle a Shaw referendum, I'm merely throwing out some Harbaugh appreciation, and recognizing that I have also been guilty of accepting the conventional wisdom about his half life instead of fully appreciating his abilities. He's been a head coach at four places now and been transformative at each one. If I was Mark Davis I would be doing everything to hire him, and if I was Warde Manuel I would be doing everything to keep him.

RE: Being Harbaugh - CowboyIndian - 01-07-2022

(01-07-2022, 04:01 PM)DC 86 Wrote:  
(01-07-2022, 02:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  I’m impressed with how Dr this thread has drifted from Harbaugh.

Shockingly, I don’t think the thread has drifted to our current director of football, but it’s still early.

BC

I'll pull this thread back to Harbaugh with the following statement:

When Harbaugh departed Stanford for the 49ers there didn't seem to be that much angst across the community at large or on this board, despite the fact that he had fundamentally changed the entire trajectory of the program following its lowest point, and installed a culture that rejected the long established excuse that Stanford could never again compete at a high level due to admissions limitations.

There was a lot of sentiment expressed along the lines of "Harbaugh is a weird personality at best and more often a difficult jerk" and "he's good at shaking things up but after a few years he burns everyone out" and "it's a blessing in disguise that he left now". Then he was essentially fired from the 49ers amid some of the same "good riddance" sentiments and it took the team five years to get back to the playoffs. Then there were calls to fire him at Michigan but he just completed his seventh season there and it was his best one yet, and the school's best in decades.

Harbaugh indeed can wear on people, but perhaps it's time to recognize that the conventional wisdom was wrong and that a team would be lucky to have him as their head coach for the long term?

I absolutely don't want to rekindle a Shaw referendum, I'm merely throwing out some Harbaugh appreciation, and recognizing that I have also been guilty of accepting the conventional wisdom about his half life instead of fully appreciating his abilities. He's been a head coach at four places now and been transformative at each one. If I was Mark Davis I would be doing everything to hire him, and if I was Warde Manuel I would be doing everything to keep him.

I think you can be enormously appreciative of what he did for Stanford (as I am) and not regret that he left when he did (as I do not). Besides the fact he wasn't staying no matter how much anyone wanted him, he had burned several bridges with his players and the admins. I don't doubt that the last decade has matured and mellowed him somewhat and that might make him more attractive but he's not coming back.

RE: Being Harbaugh - Phogge - 01-07-2022

(01-07-2022, 12:15 PM)gailtate Wrote:  
(01-07-2022, 10:04 AM)BobK Wrote:  I was a Bob Cousy fan.  Still am with 50s highlights
Where did Chamberlain score his 100?
Yes 28 of 32 was maybe still a record for most FTs made

Here's one for Phogge: How many spinners did Wilt score?

Probably thousands if you believe him. I think I'm way, way behind but more than five and less than ten.

RE: Being Harbaugh - teejers1 - 01-07-2022

(01-07-2022, 07:01 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  
(01-07-2022, 04:01 PM)DC 86 Wrote:  
(01-07-2022, 02:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  I’m impressed with how Dr this thread has drifted from Harbaugh.

Shockingly, I don’t think the thread has drifted to our current director of football, but it’s still early.

BC

I'll pull this thread back to Harbaugh with the following statement:

When Harbaugh departed Stanford for the 49ers there didn't seem to be that much angst across the community at large or on this board, despite the fact that he had fundamentally changed the entire trajectory of the program following its lowest point, and installed a culture that rejected the long established excuse that Stanford could never again compete at a high level due to admissions limitations.

There was a lot of sentiment expressed along the lines of "Harbaugh is a weird personality at best and more often a difficult jerk" and "he's good at shaking things up but after a few years he burns everyone out" and "it's a blessing in disguise that he left now". Then he was essentially fired from the 49ers amid some of the same "good riddance" sentiments and it took the team five years to get back to the playoffs. Then there were calls to fire him at Michigan but he just completed his seventh season there and it was his best one yet, and the school's best in decades.

Harbaugh indeed can wear on people, but perhaps it's time to recognize that the conventional wisdom was wrong and that a team would be lucky to have him as their head coach for the long term?

I absolutely don't want to rekindle a Shaw referendum, I'm merely throwing out some Harbaugh appreciation, and recognizing that I have also been guilty of accepting the conventional wisdom about his half life instead of fully appreciating his abilities. He's been a head coach at four places now and been transformative at each one. If I was Mark Davis I would be doing everything to hire him, and if I was Warde Manuel I would be doing everything to keep him.

I think you can be enormously appreciative of what he did for Stanford (as I am) and not regret that he left when he did (as I do not). Besides the fact he wasn't staying no matter how much anyone wanted him, he had burned several bridges with his players and the admins. I don't doubt that the last decade has matured and mellowed him somewhat and that might make him more attractive but he's not coming back.

This.  Well stated.

RE: Being Harbaugh - JohnR34231 - 01-08-2022

FWIW I ran into a Michigan fan at another site. He claimed that JH has antagonized just about everyone associated with the program and he would be happy to see him leave despite his success this season.

RE: Being Harbaugh - Goose - 01-08-2022

(01-08-2022, 04:26 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  FWIW I ran into a Michigan fan at another site. He claimed that JH has antagonized just about everyone associated with the program and he would be happy to see him leave despite his success this season.
I get the impression there are quite a few fans of Michigan that also feel that way. I do think that "success" suppresses the expression of those feelings quite a bit in many cases, but one "bad" year and it will be back in full force. Note the definition of "bad" is now much further up the ladder than before. If you look at the number of assistant coaches JH has gone through it appears he was still searching for the magic up through this year. Has he now found the combination that leads to repeated success or was last year a bit of a fluke? I do think he will get a recruiting bump from beating tOSU, but that will be ephemeral if he can't do it in 2022. That bump will also not show up as much next year because the kids will be just frosh. FWIW, I think this next year could be real hard on JH.

RE: Being Harbaugh - terry - 01-08-2022

(01-07-2022, 04:01 PM)DC 86 Wrote:  When Harbaugh departed Stanford for the 49ers there didn't seem to be that much angst across the community at large or on this board, despite the fact that he had fundamentally changed the entire trajectory of the program following its lowest point, and installed a culture that rejected the long established excuse that Stanford could never again compete at a high level due to admissions limitations.

There was a lot of sentiment expressed along the lines of "Harbaugh is a weird personality at best and more often a difficult jerk" and "he's good at shaking things up but after a few years he burns everyone out" and "it's a blessing in disguise that he left now". 

I don't think there was a lot of angst when Harbaugh left because it had become obvious by that time that his departure was inevitable. Harbaugh almost took the Kansas job after the 2009 season. Then after the 2010 season, he negotiated with the Dolphins and was wooed by Michigan before he went to the 49ers. It was obvious that he wasn't committed to Stanford. I think most of us had come to realize he was going to leave sooner rather than later, and we skipped past the angst to resignation.

RE: Being Harbaugh - DC 86 - 01-08-2022

We'll see how Michigan fans feel if Harbaugh leaves and they return to mediocrity.

Are the headaches and the burned bridges really so grave that teams prefer to be rid of Harbaugh? I'm surprised that many Stanford, 49ers or Michigan feel that way.
(01-08-2022, 11:13 AM)terry Wrote:  I think most of us had come to realize he was going to leave sooner rather than later, and we skipped past the angst to resignation.

No doubt, but I sensed at the time that it wasn't just resignation but a fair amount of "good riddance" based on his abrasive nature, without full recognition of how extraordinary his impact was.

RE: Being Harbaugh - gailtate - 01-08-2022

(01-08-2022, 11:40 AM)DC 86 Wrote:  We'll see how Michigan fans feel if Harbaugh leaves and they return to mediocrity.

Are the headaches and the burned bridges really so grave that teams prefer to be rid of Harbaugh? I'm surprised that many Stanford, 49ers or Michigan feel that way.
(01-08-2022, 11:13 AM)terry Wrote:  I think most of us had come to realize he was going to leave sooner rather than later, and we skipped past the angst to resignation.

No doubt, but I sensed at the time that it wasn't just resignation but a fair amount of "good riddance" based on his abrasive nature, without full recognition of how extraordinary his impact was.

I had a private, quiet sense of doom when we lost prickly Harbs, the exact same feeling I had when Walsh left for the 49ers and The Sheriff shuffled off to South Bend. We know how things turned out. I was guardedly optimistic when Bowlsby knighted Shaw but, admittedly, mostly due to Luck's choice to return for the '11 season (and the many other Orange Bowl Champion returnees). I was mostly lulled in the ensuing, championship years. The Iowa Rose Bowl was the apogee--despite the Fiesta fiasco and the scarred-for-life 2014 RB. Shaw now fully reveals that he is, in fact, the Anti-Harbaugh, in every sense. Today I feel mired in years post-Walsh1 and post-Willingham: That deja-vu sense of slow-motion doom. BUT...we'll always have Paris those RBs (sigh).

RE: Being Harbaugh - Mick - 01-08-2022

(01-06-2022, 01:30 PM)BobK Wrote:  Harbaugh has stated he wasn’t offered for the oblivious reason not football
Paye’s injury was severe
At least Randy Jones had or still has great bbq

Interesting pitcher.  Had just three winning seasons in his ten year career, including three of his first four seasons -- the other one, he led the league in losses.  In his last good season, he was 22-14 and led the league in WHIP with 1.27 and complete games with 25.  Threw 274 innings, struck out just 93.  Tied Christy Mathewson's record of going 68 innings without a walk, finally walking the Giants' Marc Hill on a 3-2 pitch.  He handled 112 chances without an error and started 12 double plays, both MLB records.

lex24 - lex24 - 01-08-2022

(01-08-2022, 11:40 AM)DC 86 Wrote:  We'll see how Michigan fans feel if Harbaugh leaves and they return to mediocrity.

Are the headaches and the burned bridges really so grave that teams prefer to be rid of Harbaugh? I'm surprised that many Stanford, 49ers or Michigan feel that way.
(01-08-2022, 11:13 AM)terry Wrote:  I think most of us had come to realize he was going to leave sooner rather than later, and we skipped past the angst to resignation.

No doubt, but I sensed at the time that it wasn't just resignation but a fair amount of "good riddance" based on his abrasive nature, without full recognition of how extraordinary his impact was.

It’s kind of irrelevant how fans “feel”.  They are not the ones dealing with JH on a day to day basis.  The guy can coach, no question.  But the issue always has seemed to be that “he does not play well with others.”  That appeared to be the case in SF.  It didn’t help that York appeared to back Ballke.  

At Stanford there was, as I understand it, a slew of players that couldn’t stand him. Sherman and Baldwin were vocal about it.  But they were far from alone. 

In the end, the question for those making the decisions are is he worth the trouble.  He is far from the only good coach out there.  And if you can bring one in that is a good coach without the baggage, maybe you decide to make a move.  
Of course, you can’t then hire Jim Tomsula….
(01-07-2022, 10:04 AM)BobK Wrote:  I was a Bob Cousy fan.  Still am with 50s highlights
Where did Chamberlain score his 100?
Yes 28 of 32 was maybe still a record for most FTs made

Hershey, Penn.

RE: lex24 - Mick - 01-08-2022

(01-08-2022, 02:19 PM)lex24 Wrote:  It’s kind of irrelevant how fans “feel”.  They are not the ones dealing with JH on a day to day basis.  The guy can coach, no question.  But the issue always has seemed to be that “he does not play well with others.”  That appeared to be the case in SF.  It didn’t help that York appeared to back Baalke.  

At Stanford there was, as I understand it, a slew of players that couldn’t stand him. Sherman and Baldwin were vocal about it.  But they were far from alone. 

Harbaugh was 44-19-1 at the 49ers, was still let go.  From what I gather, after the 2012 NFC championship victory against the Falcons, he shut the locker room door in Jed York's face stating that "only men are allowed in here."  Little damper on the coach/owner relationship I'd say.

Also...was listening to Brent Jones on KNBR near the end of Harbaugh's reign at the 49ers.  Said that Harbaugh had too much EUTM in the pros.  Jones said "It's bad enough that he did that in college.  But to do it in the pros?  No one would follow him."  The interviewer (can't remember if it was Ralph Barbieri) asked Jones -- when Harbaugh was the sitting and successful head coach of the 49ers, prior to his last, 8-8 season, "Would you like to play for Coach Harbaugh?"  Jones' response was "sometimes."

RE: lex24 - DC 86 - 01-08-2022

(01-08-2022, 02:19 PM)lex24 Wrote:  It’s kind of irrelevant how fans “feel”.  They are not the ones dealing with JH on a day to day basis.  The guy can coach, no question.  But the issue always has seemed to be that “he does not play well with others.”  That appeared to be the case in SF.  It didn’t help that York appeared to back Ballke.  

At Stanford there was, as I understand it, a slew of players that couldn’t stand him. Sherman and Baldwin were vocal about it.  But they were far from alone. 

In the end, the question for those making the decisions are is he worth the trouble.  He is far from the only good coach out there.  And if you can bring one in that is a good coach without the baggage, maybe you decide to make a move.  

Where I differ is that I've never been convinced that Harbaugh carries significant baggage other than being abrasive and being disliked by a lot of the people he works with, which is not unlike many head coaches, and CEOs for that matter. Certainly Belichick has a slew of players who can't stand him. It hasn't seemed to affect his or Harbaugh's results. The other issue is that while he's not the only good coach out there there is a scarcity of elite coaches. Obviously Tomsula represents an extreme but finding a replacement of similar or better caliber than Harbaugh is not easy at all.

I'm probably glad that I don't have to work with him or for him, but as an outside observer it sure seems as if Harbaugh is worth the trouble, and I think his Michigan tenure demonstrates that the conventional wisdom about him only being useful for 3-4 years is unfair.