WBB: Pac 12 Champions! Stanford 73 -- UT 48

WBB: Pac 12 Champions! Stanford 73 -- UT 48 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - BillBradley - 03-04-2022

(03-03-2022, 05:48 PM)chimera Wrote: Someone posted that the conference seems down. I agree. I think the bottom is better, but the teams that were supposed to be top three or four have not been consistently good. Anyone can beat anyone, which is not really great for anybody. UA probably just played themselves out of hosting the NCAAs. Conference may have only Stanford as a host. Why? UA at first seemed like they may have improved even after losing McDonald but then they started struggling and losing, even before Reese got hurt. Oregon looked terrible but then got all their stars back from injury and looked great for a few games, but then began to struggle more than expected. WSU as high as they are is a great story, but I just don't think they are all that good.

There COULD be another explanation. It is possible that the top of the conference is actually very strong. Consider:
- Arizona didn't lose until P12 play, and beat Louisville, Vanderbilt, and DePaul along the way
- Colorado didn't lose until P12 play
- Oregon (who I think could be this year's Arizona of last year) has been riddled with injuries and have been inconsistent finding their way back, but remember they smacked UConn (sure with some injuries but still - all those 5-stars :).

I think each of these teams could be Final Four teams. Arizona is particularly dangerous if they get Reese back.

As for the eye test, a lot of it is style of play. Arizona and Colorado play a very physical style of basketball, they are well coached, and they take away the other teams strengths. That's just what they do. When you get into the post season and the refs allow even more physicality, it turns the games even uglier and the flow of the game is even more to their advantage.

The middle teams - and I agree with you I don't think WSU is top tier so I'm putting them here - look to me to be "better than the typical middle". I think WSU, OSU, and Utah are all dangerous to advance a few rounds in the tourney (if they all make it).

It might just be these 6 teams are all beating up on each other. Defeating a pretty good P12 team at their court is not easy. Mix in some pandemic protocol issues and you end up with a bunch of losses. Except for the one team that has the depth to withstand all of it. The P12 could have at least 3 and as many as 5 in the S16 this year. Compared to 2 last year. I would not want to be a 3 or 4 seed and have to face any of these teams. I'd love to see WSU play Iowa. Or Utah play Michigan. Or OSU play LSU.

Which leaves us to these "struggling wins" for the Card. Could it be they are all just solid wins against good teams? Is this whole line of thinking a stretch?

I have to take a moment to note how the officials didn't call a bunch of ridiculous fouls in the OSU game (and many of the other games in the tourney so far). In the middle of the season, Cam would have been on the bench for the same defense she played yesterday. And there WAS a lot of reaching, contact on the dribble and on contested shots, etc. by both teams. It makes no sense to me why they can't consistently call games during the season like they did yesterday. And very few complaints from the players (at least that's what I saw). I very much hope it continues, even though it means the Colorado game will be really physical. If we are going to repeat, our team has to adjust to this style of post-season officiating.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - 2006alum - 03-04-2022

Just a few thoughts after speeding through last night's game:

OSU's perimeter defense has definitely lost a step in the past few seasons. But their rim protection was very good - in particular, Ellie Mack really had Jones's number for much of the evening. I was pretty impressed by her rebounding and defensive abilities. And that buzzer beater from the half court was a thing of beauty.

I have to say, I've been a little underwhelmed by TVO. I was originally quite dismayed she chose OSU over us last year, but now I'm not as sure. She's definitely a solid player, but it seemed like she was really rushing shots or trying to make something low percentage happen. That said, Anna Wilson just endlessly harassed her all game, so maybe it's hard to get a sense of her full abilities. By contrast, I thought Emily Cotting was very good in both games against us, but apparently she barely averages 3 pts per game, so it's possible when we shut down TVO someone else has to step up!

Cross-posting this from the thread on Meyer, but: ‘Her spirit is here’: Stanford soccer player Katie Meyer honored by basketball team. I'm not at all surprised we weren't as sharp last night as we'd like to be. I would imagine the team's had an exceedingly hard week and it's not easy to fully compartmentalize, especially when it's a team-wide trauma they're dealing with. I'm going to write off any less-than-ideal performances this week because I'd imagine they're really going through something right now.

Last thought: I didn't think the substitution patterns were that odd. Jerome is a fifth-year senior who's seen her role diminished each year since she actually started many games her sophomore and junior years. We were up almost 20 when Tara subbed her in, for possibly one of her last few times on the court in the PAC-12 Tournament. Nothing odd to me about that at all. And Fran and Prechtel were among the first off the bench, just as usual.

Win and advance. Sorry we have to face Colorado again. As 81 said, their style of play is not only not very fun to watch, but the risk of injury is always higher.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - Jskass - 03-04-2022

On OSU, kudos to Ellie Mack (as a grad of a fellow Patriot League school especially). On TVO, I think we need to give Anna Wilson credit but also she like Curry on Cal the prior day seemed to try to do it all herself late in the game. I recall a few times she just ran into an army of taller defenders. She was the great unknown last year and now seems to be showing that she is a freshman (or as the announcers said to Ros that perhaps there's a sophomore-like slump).
Yes, unfortunately when we play Colorado I hope we win but even more importantly I pray for no injuries. And right now we're all giving virtual hugs of emotional support to the team.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - BobK - 03-04-2022

So a rumor I picked up at breakfast : maybe Nicole Powell at ASU. From an Arizona fan to clarify

triangle2 - triangle2 - 03-04-2022

(03-04-2022, 11:09 AM)2006alum Wrote: Last thought: I didn't think the substitution patterns were that odd. Jerome is a fifth-year senior who's seen her role diminished each year since she actually started many games her sophomore and junior years. We were up almost 20 when Tara subbed her in, for possibly one of her last few times on the court in the PAC-12 Tournament. Nothing odd to me about that at all. And Fran and Prechtel were among the first off the bench, just as usual.

Agree with your thoughts about Jerome. She had earned a last run with the starters. I would also argue that since Stanford was playing a game in difficult emotional circumstances, Vanderveer got to make a subtle substitution to make a statement that everyone on team matters. Particularly since Jerome didn’t get off the bench on senior day. The little things that keep a team together.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - petersalas - 03-04-2022

This has been an awesome experience so far and makes me realize, I’ve missed out. I’m enjoying every minute of it.. I went to all 4 games yesterday, went to the House of Blues after for a drink and bite and seated near us was Taylor Chavez, Sedona Prince and Nyara Sabally. They chatted with us and also took a pic with us. I got to meet the Hull parents and they have been very friendly and welcoming.. as many games as I’ve gone to, I still feel somewhat socially awkward. The Stanford fans have also been very nice… I got to experience the team send off today and that was also something I never experienced and enjoyed. All that to say, I’m having such an amazing time and hope this is the first of many!

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - old spanish trail - 03-04-2022

Also agree re difficult week, value of Jerome substitution, and difficulty of playing Colorado. I hadn't focused on the fact Col plays the same offense as we till now. Re Vanohl...,Anna defended her very well. She is not as quick as Anna. Where Anna has had trouble is with guards with size and also quicks.. For example, the Hulls would play alot of defense vs Conn. guards. And, good for you Pete.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - BobK - 03-04-2022

Here’s Missy. Now one of 4 so maybe not on the floor

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - 2006alum - 03-04-2022

(03-04-2022, 06:49 PM)BobK Wrote: Here’s Missy. Now one of 4 so maybe not on the floor

I actually am not sure if Missy is as bad for us vs. Colorado. We're often the more physical team, but not against the Buffs. So some ticky tack fouls called against them early could actually really shut down what they do well. Fingers crossed, at least...

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - petersalas - 03-04-2022

Oh she’s on the floor.. she’s getting loose (insert crying emoji here)

(03-04-2022, 06:49 PM)BobK Wrote: Here’s Missy. Now one of 4 so maybe not on the floor

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - 81alum - 03-04-2022

JR Payne pre-game interview on what it will take to win. "Every possession will be grueling." What a great philosophy.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - martyup - 03-04-2022

Expecting an ugly game. Just win and advance.

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Hollingshed has been playing on the edge of dirty of late. Hopefully she doesn't cause an injury tonight.

Boy are they letting them play.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - 81alum - 03-04-2022

(03-04-2022, 07:04 PM)martyup Wrote: Expecting an ugly game. Just win and advance.

Hollingshed has been playing on the edge of dirty of late. Hopefully she doesn't cause an injury tonight.

Boy are they letting them play.

Is that Missy out there?

I fear they will let them mug each other for three quarters and then, when the game is on the line, call every ticky tack foul.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - mbdude - 03-04-2022

Brink is gone after that

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - martyup - 03-04-2022

There goes Hollingshed. I called it!

(03-04-2022, 07:31 PM)mbdude Wrote: Brink is gone after that

No way. Hollingshed was the aggressor. Brink has the right to defend herself when being assaulted with a hand pushing her face.

I can't believe that Hollingshed didn't get a technical foul for that. Total BS. She kept pushing Cam's face long after the whistle blew.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - crackpot - 03-04-2022

(03-04-2022, 07:31 PM)martyup Wrote: There goes Hollingshed. I called it!

(03-04-2022, 07:31 PM)mbdude Wrote: Brink is gone after that

No way. Hollingshed was the aggressor. Brink has the right to defend herself when being assaulted with a hand pushing her face.

I can't believe that Hollingshed didn't get a technical foul for that. Total BS. She kept pushing Cam's face long after the whistle blew.

I can't believe they both didn't get tossed. Cam shouldn't have thrown the ball at her. And besides grabbing her face and not letting go, she shoved Lexie a few times in there.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - martyup - 03-04-2022

Cam is pissed and taking it out on the Buffs.

Cam unleashed!

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Good thing CO is only shooting 27.6/9.1/25 because they have outrebounded us 22-13.

We lead by 15 at the half and the Brink beast has been unleashed. She has 14 points, 5 rebounds, 3 steals, and 2 blocks. She played 17 of the first 20 minutes.

As a team in the first half we shot 48/57/100. That's Championship caliber.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - WBB fan - 03-04-2022

Just saw the video of the brink holingshed bit. I can't understand why that wasn't a flagrant 2 on Holingshed. She not only shoved cam in the face. She had a hand around cam 's throat. No wonder Cam was pissed, tho she certainly shouldn't have thrown the ball.

Yes, up at half, despite the awful rebounding. Only 1 o board. But in the previous games vs Jr pain, the Card was behind at the half -- 4 in Colorado and by 1 at Maples. BTW, that "pain" is not an auto correct typo.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - old spanish trail - 03-04-2022

(03-04-2022, 07:38 PM)crackpot Wrote:
(03-04-2022, 07:31 PM)martyup Wrote: There goes Hollingshed. I called it!

(03-04-2022, 07:31 PM)mbdude Wrote: Brink is gone after that

No way. Hollingshed was the aggressor. Brink has the right to defend herself when being assaulted with a hand pushing her face.

I can't believe that Hollingshed didn't get a technical foul for that. Total BS. She kept pushing Cam's face long after the whistle blew.

I can't believe they both didn't get tossed. Cam shouldn't have thrown the ball at her. And besides grabbing her face and not letting go, she shoved Lexie a few times in there.

I imagine they considered it and decided on the lesser. Both players are tres important to their teams.

RE: WBB Pac 12 Tournament - martyup - 03-04-2022

(03-04-2022, 07:04 PM)martyup Wrote: Hollingshed has been playing on the edge of dirty of late. Hopefully she doesn't cause an injury tonight.

I saw this coming watching Hollingshed play in other games recently. She has been on the edge of losing her cool.