Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - Printable Version
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RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - qwerty49 - 08-21-2022
The roster officially designates positions for some players as "EDGE".
Back in the day, I think we called them Tweeners. That usually applied to both size and speed and was largely a function of our limited recruiting pool.
I'm not sure this is such a big change. I seem to recall a lot of situations over the last few seasons where we only had 2 DL on the field, flanked by edge guys who were essentially undersized for DL and slightly too slow for pass coverage.
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - Hurlburt88 - 08-21-2022
(08-20-2022, 08:46 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(08-19-2022, 05:19 PM)newguy Wrote: i may get slammed for this, but i still believe that we should consider asking for volunteers among our offensive linemen to switch over to defense.....not necessarily for this season, but for next.
yes i know we have guys in the pipeline.
it's just an idea.
There is an OL who has switched.
Sam, who is that? I missed it.
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - CardinalSagehen - 08-21-2022
For whatever it's worth, Gavin Geweniger, who just committed yesterday, had this to say about the DL scheme:
Quote:Stanford also stood out to me because of the way their defense is schemed — it is a perfect fit for my play style at strong-side defensive end, hand-in-the-ground 5-technique.
https://247sports.com/Article/Stanford-Cardinal-Football-Recruiting-Gavin-Geweniger-commits-191836683/
Does the new scheme actually help us attract more of the athletes that want to go to Stanford and are qualified?
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - winflop - 08-21-2022
(08-21-2022, 10:38 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Winflop and cardcrimson, see my post two up. I share your confusion, but it seems clear that this iteration of a 4-3 defense will be very different than what a 4-3 defense has traditionally meant.
BC
I don't think your explanation changes my concern. In a 3-4 you have 1 down lineman (DT/NT), 2 edge rushers (aka DE), and 4 LBs (2 outside, 2 inside). In a 4-3 as you describe, there are 2 down linemen, 2 edge rushers, and 3 LBs.
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - SamuelMcF - 08-21-2022
(08-21-2022, 12:32 PM)winflop Wrote:(08-21-2022, 10:38 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Winflop and cardcrimson, see my post two up. I share your confusion, but it seems clear that this iteration of a 4-3 defense will be very different than what a 4-3 defense has traditionally meant.
BC
I don't think your explanation changes my concern. In a 3-4 you have 1 down lineman (DT/NT), 2 edge rushers (aka DE), and 4 LBs (2 outside, 2 inside). In a 4-3 as you describe, there are 2 down linemen, 2 edge rushers, and 3 LBs.
The 3 in 3-4 are all what you’d call “down linemen.” You want them ALL to be big. That’s the difference here.
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - BostonCard - 08-21-2022
There’s a difference between a 3-4 nose tackle and a 3-4 DE. A stereotypical NT is a 330 lb “fire hydrant” short, stocky, and very hard to move. The ends are large at 300ish lbs, but not as big as interior defensive tackles in a 4-3 (more like 310-320 lbs).
When we switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4, the logic was that interior defensive linemen were very hard for Stanford to recruit, and it was easier to bring in a single nose tackle than two 4-3 DT’s.
I think now the concern is we can’t recruit space eating nose tackles like, at all, and we have really been playing undersized guys there, who are really more like 4-3 DT’a than 3-4 NT’s.
But no amount of shifting the alignment around makes up for the fact that we simply don’t have a ton of size and strength in the interior line.
BC
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - Goose - 08-21-2022
(08-21-2022, 03:27 PM)BostonCard Wrote: There’s a difference between a 3-4 nose tackle and a 3-4 DE. A stereotypical NT is a 330 lb “fire hydrant” short, stocky, and very hard to move. The ends are large at 300ish lbs, but not as big as interior defensive tackles in a 4-3 (more like 310-320 lbs).Exactly so. Jesse and Joe need to be big boys. If they aren't, it doesn't matter what you call them.
When we switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4, the logic was that interior defensive linemen were very hard for Stanford to recruit, and it was easier to bring in a single nose tackle than two 4-3 DT’s.
I think now the concern is we can’t recruit space eating nose tackles like, at all, and we have really been playing undersized guys there, who are really more like 4-3 DT’a than 3-4 NT’s.
But no amount of shifting the alignment around makes up for the fact that we simply don’t have a ton of size and strength in the interior line.
BC
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - VB Card - 08-21-2022
(08-21-2022, 11:20 AM)Hurlburt88 Wrote:(08-20-2022, 08:46 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(08-19-2022, 05:19 PM)newguy Wrote: i may get slammed for this, but i still believe that we should consider asking for volunteers among our offensive linemen to switch over to defense.....not necessarily for this season, but for next.
yes i know we have guys in the pipeline.
it's just an idea.
There is an OL who has switched.
Sam, who is that? I missed it.
Austin Uke has switched from OG to DL.
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - CardinalSagehen - 08-21-2022
(08-21-2022, 04:16 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-21-2022, 03:27 PM)BostonCard Wrote: There’s a difference between a 3-4 nose tackle and a 3-4 DE. A stereotypical NT is a 330 lb “fire hydrant” short, stocky, and very hard to move. The ends are large at 300ish lbs, but not as big as interior defensive tackles in a 4-3 (more like 310-320 lbs).Exactly so. Jesse and Joe need to be big boys. If they aren't, it doesn't matter what you call them.
When we switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4, the logic was that interior defensive linemen were very hard for Stanford to recruit, and it was easier to bring in a single nose tackle than two 4-3 DT’s.
I think now the concern is we can’t recruit space eating nose tackles like, at all, and we have really been playing undersized guys there, who are really more like 4-3 DT’a than 3-4 NT’s.
But no amount of shifting the alignment around makes up for the fact that we simply don’t have a ton of size and strength in the interior line.
BC
The Stanford roster is sortable by weight going back to 2016. Put it in "Grid" view and click on the Weight column.
https://gostanford.com/sports/football/roster
Below are the defensive players listed at over 275 pounds since 2016, plus a look at the 2012 D-Line from a different source. (This exercise is of limited usefulness because none of these defenses were among our best, other than 2012, but it does show a trend.) Some of these massive linemen didn't contribute much, and weight is just one metric among several.
That said, if we had David Parry, Josh Mauro, or Terrence Stephens, there is no question that they would be starters on the current team or any of the teams from the last several years, and we would make the scheme fit for them.
Tobin Phillips seems like a really key player for the undersized 2022 line - can he have a breakout season and clog the middle the way his namesake Harrison did?
2016:
Peek, 297
Williams, 287
Phillips, 285
Kaumatule, 281
2017:
Wade-Perry, 332
Phillips, 295
Peek, 290
Williams, 280
2018:
Wade-Perry, 316
Peek, 296
Williams, 293
Schaffer, 290
(Booker was at 279 at this point.)
2019:
Wade-Perry, 321
Peek, 298
Williams, 290
Schaffer, 285
Booker, 281
2020:
Wade-Perry, 330
Pakola, 310
Booker, 310
Schaffer, 301
T. Phillips, 290
Lester, 290 (walk-on)
2021:
Wade-Perry, 340
Booker, 309
T. Phillips, 295
Lester, 295 (walk-on)
Fisk, 285
Johnson, 280
2022:
T. Phillips, 295
Uke, 290*
Lester, 290 (walk-on)
Moi, 282
* Just converted from OG.
Our other players listed at DL (not Edge) for 2022 are:
Katona, 272
Rowell, 272
Franklin, 267
Merritt, 265
Meltzer, 265
Buckley, 265
For reference, I looked at a "Party in the Backfield" defense from 2012 using another source.
https://www.footballdb.com/college-football/teams/fbs/stanford/roster/2012?sort=pos
Parry, 303
Callihan (?), 300
Hayes (?), 290
H. Anderson, 282
Note that Gardner was only 275 as a senior on this team.
Terrence Stephens' weight was not listed, but he was a big guy on this team, too.
RE: Two weeks before the 2022 season and. . . . - Phogge - 08-21-2022
3/4, 4/3, 2/5, Oklahoma.... whatever defense they play this year they are going to be smoked.