WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - 81alum - 02-18-2020
(02-18-2020, 03:59 PM)teejers1 Wrote:Agreed on all counts.(02-18-2020, 12:28 PM)BostonCard Wrote: By the time she got the shot off, Williams had a hand in her face.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/stanfordwbb/status/1229826712688398336?s=21[/tweet]
BC
That is right up there, in terms of end-game excitement and game-call, no?
Look, the player execution was tremendous and without every part of it, Stanford comes up short.
So I'll focus on the broadcaster. It's hard to do - capture the play by play and the excitement, and Danno nailed it. In comparison, check out the TV broadcast, where the announcers were basically bummed out by the bucket. Serious question: were those TV announcers somehow Buffs-related? Because it was clear they were more concerned about Colorado's heartbreak than they were Stanford's excitement . . . which is very odd if the broadcast team is supposed to be neutral.
Murph and Platz call of the Rhode Island comeback (leading to Final Four) and Pohlen's layup at the buzzer (also leading to Final Four) take the prize. As for regular season games, nothing compares to Nick Robinson keeping Stanford undefeated in buzzer-beater over Arizona at maples (Dick Vitale: "It's a MAD HOUSE in here!!"). But this one is awfully good, and the call of Danno will keep it up there over the years.
I think the TV announcers were in fact local Colorado people. I was alternating between listen to Danno and the TV announcers. Danno was far superior except his play by play was a whopping 20-30 seconds ahead of the TV broadcast on my computer. I finally muted him and listened to the TV crew, but got more and more and more irritated by them as the game went on.
Williams making that shot was delightful on so many levels, but one of the best was to watch the announcers swallow their homerism and then interview her after the game.
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - M T - 02-18-2020
While it is very irritating for one set of fans to listen to announcers who are clearly supporting the other team, I don't necessarily think it is bad to have announcers that are biased for the home team. As a fan, when my "home" team is playing, I don't mind listening to announcers that are focused on my team. Kevin Danna's call is an example of that. I get more local info & shared excitement that way. I do understand that there will be times when I have to sit through another team's homers. (Just look at how we view ESPN)
PAC-12 Network does have some very professional announcers that are quite good at being mostly impartial. They generally cover the most important games.
And, I do appreciate the photo taken by Cliff Grassmick. It very much captures the feel of the moment. (Suggestion to the FBC: Get that framed & up on Tara's wall. Someday she might want to remember how much fun coaching is.)
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - 81alum - 02-19-2020
(02-18-2020, 10:23 PM)M T Wrote: While it is very irritating for one set of fans to listen to announcers who are clearly supporting the other team, I don't necessarily think it is bad to have announcers that are biased for the home team. As a fan, when my "home" team is playing, I don't mind listening to announcers that are focused on my team. Kevin Danna's call is an example of that. I get more local info & shared excitement that way. I do understand that there will be times when I have to sit through another team's homers. (Just look at how we view ESPN)That is a fair point. But a lot has to do with expectations.
For example, when I listen to a radio broadcast of a sporting event I normally expect to be listening to an announcer who is sympathetic to my team and particularly knowledgeable about it. That is how radio usually works--the same games being announced by two different announcers for the benefit of the two different sets of fans. We had our Kevin Danno Danna and there was probably a different announcer for Colorado radio.
With TV I have a different expectation of neutrality. It is rare for a sporting event to be broadcast on TV with two sets of announcers. And so it is jarring when you encounter a radio-level of bias in a TV setting.
The two broadcasters for the P12N of the Stanford Colorado game were Thad Anderson and Stephanie Hoff Hawk Freeman. Anderson has a short bio on the P12N site but Freeman does not. Anderson appears to be an experienced broadcaster with a long track record--nothing to suggest a Colorado bias. I can't find out anything about Freeman. Could she be a former Colorado player, the way Pac 12 uses Chiney and used to use Ros? My perception of their home-bias could simply have come from the normal tendency to support the underdog and to support the home team--the same two factors that have been statistically proven to bias referees. But they did seem to share a lot more information about Colorado than they did about Stanford, and it was that more than anything else that made me think they were local.
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - CompSci87 - 02-19-2020
Book 'em, Dano? No, it's Kevin Danna.
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - teejers1 - 02-19-2020
(02-18-2020, 04:58 PM)BobK Wrote: So agree teejers. It’s Kevin DannaThanks. Fixed.
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - M T - 02-19-2020
(02-19-2020, 09:47 AM)CompSci87 Wrote: Book 'em, Dano? No, it's Kevin Danna.
As long as we're getting names right, it is "Book 'em, Danno"
(02-19-2020, 07:14 AM)81alum Wrote: The two broadcasters for the P12N of the Stanford Colorado game were Thad Anderson and Stephanie Hoff Freeman. Anderson has a short bio on the P12N site but Freeman does not. Anderson appears to be an experienced broadcaster with a long track record--nothing to suggest a Colorado bias. I can't find out anything about Freeman. Could she be a former Colorado player, the way Pac 12 uses Chiney and used to use Ros? My perception of their home-bias could simply have come from the normal tendency to support the underdog and to support the home team--the same two factors that have been statistically proven to bias referees. But they did seem to share a lot more information about Colorado than they did about Stanford, and it was that more than anything else that made me think they were local.
Her name is Stephanie Hawk-Freeman. Stephanie Hawk started for Gonzaga 80+ games 2003-2007
I see her mentioned as an announcer at a Gonzaga-BYU game in 2014.
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - BobK - 02-19-2020
Well can we do trivia off the original Hawaii 5-0?
Who was Danny’s mother
Who played the police Lt
Who played the Lt’s first officer
2 of the 3 very sports related
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - PalmTree - 02-19-2020
(02-19-2020, 08:06 PM)BobK Wrote: Well can we do trivia off the original Hawaii 5-0?
Who was Danny’s mother
Who played the police Lt
Who played the Lt’s first officer
2 of the 3 very sports related
Aloha!
Helen Hayes
Not sure who played which character but guessing you're referring to Al Harrington and Zulu???
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - BobK - 02-19-2020
Yes Helen Hayes yes Al Harrington former Stanford running back
And professor Al’s boss ?
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - PalmTree - 02-19-2020
(02-19-2020, 08:44 PM)BobK Wrote: Yes Helen Hayes yes Al Harrington former Stanford running back
And professor Al’s boss ?
Waving the white flag on this one. I know Herm Wedemeyer was on the show but IIRC, not at the Lt level. The only other actor I remember was Kam Fong but his character was a detective. OTOH, I'm chagrined to admit I didn't know Al Harrington was a Cardinal... ?
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - BobK - 02-20-2020
Ah my bad Squirmin Herman Wedemeyer was Duke the Sgt not Lt on the old Hawaii 5-0
Here was first team All American running back at St Mary’s
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - 2006alum - 02-20-2020
Really really late to the party here, but finally got to see the Colorado game after a really busy weekend/week. Beyond pushing and shoving to get to the front of the Kiana Williams fan club, just a few things to add to all the great comments:
Unless I missed it, it has gone unremarked that in the entire last quarter of the game, players not named Kiana Williams made exactly one basket in the last 5 minutes (a Fingall hop shot in the paint off a rebound/pass from Lexie Hull as she attempted to abort a failing effort to drive to the basket). It concerns me a little bit that it felt a bit like everyone but Kiana was turtling down the stretch. Our defensive effort was still really strong, but we didn't seem to be playing with confidence on offense and I didn't even think their defense was that spectacular over the last few minutes, esp. with Sherrod off the floor for part of it.
Relatedly, I listened very closely for signs of homerism from the commentators given what everyone else had remarked upon. To be honest, I felt like it was less partisanship and more that Colorado was making almost every dynamic/exciting play over the last 8-9 minutes of the game. They absolutely were trying to hype up the possibility of an upset, and given the crowd enthusiasm, I'm sure they were naturally getting louder/more vocal off of Colorado plays that thrilled the crowd. But they still talking up how great Williams was right up to the buzzer-beater, and the only time it felt really, really homerish was the extended discussion about just how amazing Aubrey Knight was. That definitely felt beyond-neutral, but I can see how they might want to laud a bench player coming up big and who was returning from injuries.
Related to both points: I am getting a creeping worry that without Jones and Carrington, we are one bad night for Lexie or Kiana away from an upset in the tournament(s). I know it's hard to play @ CO and they took it to us earlier in the season, but that should not have been a close game, and if Lexie had gone something like 5-12, it wouldn't have been. Or if anyone else really stepped up down the stretch. If you look back over most of our tournament (and high-profile regular season) losses over the past decade, they often been games where we have one or maybe two clutch players (as Williams was vs. CO), but otherwise no other really significant and consistent offensive contributions.
Finally, here's a question I have re: Lexie and driving to the basket: I get the sense that both Hulls have picked up a little bit of a reputation for being overly aggressive, and they definitely get called for fouls at an above average rate for players their size/heft, in part because they have long arms and the use them very effectively. I wonder if the CO defenders felt like they could close in harder on Lexie because the refs might be less like to call a defensive foul and/or more likely to call a charge on Lexie? Recall that charge call against Lexie early on that the head ref overruled, for example. For a little while after that, CO wasn't quite as aggressive with Lexie under the hoop. But by the second half, they were really going hard at her, and it was noticeable to me how much more the CO defenders were closing in physically on Lexie than on Kiana. Yes, Kiana has some incredibly smooth moves and can change speed and direction almost on a dime. But she also fouls so rarely that I have to imagine a defender closing in on her has to think they won't get the benefit of the doubt in a way that I genuinely feel like, at time, opposing players have gotten versus the Hulls.
Just a few thoughts to throw out there.
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - BostonCard - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 05:57 PM)2006alum Wrote: Finally, here's a question I have re: Lexie and driving to the basket: I get the sense that both Hulls have picked up a little bit of a reputation for being overly aggressive, and they definitely get called for fouls at an above average rate for players their size/heft, in part because they have long arms and the use them very effectively. I wonder if the CO defenders felt like they could close in harder on Lexie because the refs might be less like to call a defensive foul and/or more likely to call a charge on Lexie? Recall that charge call against Lexie early on that the head ref overruled, for example. For a little while after that, CO wasn't quite as aggressive with Lexie under the hoop. But by the second half, they were really going hard at her, and it was noticeable to me how much more the CO defenders were closing in physically on Lexie than on Kiana. Yes, Kiana has some incredibly smooth moves and can change speed and direction almost on a dime. But she also fouls so rarely that I have to imagine a defender closing in on her has to think they won't get the benefit of the doubt in a way that I genuinely feel like, at time, opposing players have gotten versus the Hulls.
Just a few thoughts to throw out there.
Up by three in the closing moments of the game, it would have been a monumentally stupid move by Colorado. The coach should have told the players, "whatever you do, don't foul!" Lexie making an uncontested layup at that point would have left us one point back. Lexie being fouled in the act of that layup would have given her a chance of an "and one". So it definitely wouldn't have been worth trying to draw a charge or see if you could challenge her and not get called.
I think Lexie intended to kick the ball out from the get go. The only thing that was surprising is that she was able to draw Colorado defenders at all.
BC
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - 2006alum - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 06:48 PM)BostonCard Wrote:I think either you are or I am misreading something. What would have been a monumentally stupid move by CO? I was talking their aggressive D on Lexie throughout the game, and especially in the second half, not that next to last play specifically.(02-20-2020, 05:57 PM)2006alum Wrote: Finally, here's a question I have re: Lexie and driving to the basket: I get the sense that both Hulls have picked up a little bit of a reputation for being overly aggressive, and they definitely get called for fouls at an above average rate for players their size/heft, in part because they have long arms and the use them very effectively. I wonder if the CO defenders felt like they could close in harder on Lexie because the refs might be less like to call a defensive foul and/or more likely to call a charge on Lexie? Recall that charge call against Lexie early on that the head ref overruled, for example. For a little while after that, CO wasn't quite as aggressive with Lexie under the hoop. But by the second half, they were really going hard at her, and it was noticeable to me how much more the CO defenders were closing in physically on Lexie than on Kiana. Yes, Kiana has some incredibly smooth moves and can change speed and direction almost on a dime. But she also fouls so rarely that I have to imagine a defender closing in on her has to think they won't get the benefit of the doubt in a way that I genuinely feel like, at time, opposing players have gotten versus the Hulls.
Just a few thoughts to throw out there.
Up by three in the closing moments of the game, it would have been a monumentally stupid move by Colorado. The coach should have told the players, "whatever you do, don't foul!" Lexie making an uncontested layup at that point would have left us one point back. Lexie being fouled in the act of that layup would have given her a chance of an "and one". So it definitely wouldn't have been worth trying to draw a charge or see if you could challenge her and not get called.
I think Lexie intended to kick the ball out from the get go. The only thing that was surprising is that she was able to draw Colorado defenders at all.
BC
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - BostonCard - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 07:18 PM)2006alum Wrote: I think either you are or I am misreading something. What would have been a monumentally stupid move by CO? I was talking their aggressive D on Lexie throughout the game, and especially in the second half, not that next to last play specifically.
Yes, I misread your original post. I was talking specifically about the last play.
BC
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - 2006alum - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 07:49 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(02-20-2020, 07:18 PM)2006alum Wrote: I think either you are or I am misreading something. What would have been a monumentally stupid move by CO? I was talking their aggressive D on Lexie throughout the game, and especially in the second half, not that next to last play specifically.
Yes, I misread your original post. I was talking specifically about the last play.
BC
Gotcha. Yeah, that would have been stupid, and I wasn't surprised Lexie was able to slip free under the basket. I was responding more to those inquiring about why Lexie wasn't very successful driving to the rim, and having read those queries before watching, I was paying careful attention. It seemed like the CO defenders closed hard on her, whereas Williams had more spacing. I'm sure part of that is that Williams is much better at creating it, but I do wonder because my sense has also been that the Hulls are under enhanced ref scrutiny much of the time. That waived off charge call early on was exemplary of some really questionable calls that have gone against them this season.
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - 81alum - 02-20-2020
(02-20-2020, 07:49 PM)BostonCard Wrote:I remember thinking, at the time on that last set play, "why don't they let Lexie score the layup?" But I agree it was a designed play and Lexie was never going to take it to the rim. Williams started moving to receive the pass just in time for it.(02-20-2020, 07:18 PM)2006alum Wrote: I think either you are or I am misreading something. What would have been a monumentally stupid move by CO? I was talking their aggressive D on Lexie throughout the game, and especially in the second half, not that next to last play specifically.
Yes, I misread your original post. I was talking specifically about the last play.
BC
In watching the replay, all 5 of the Colorado players were facing Lexie. None were facing the perimeter, and so they did not react to Williams' move until Lexie threw the pass. By then it was a bit too late.
RE: WBB: Stanford 69 Colorado 66 on Williams' 39' buzzer beater - TheFarm07 - 02-20-2020
I think it also helped that there were still plenty of time left, because Colorado might have thought we were going to go for a quick, higher-percentage 2 and foul again, considering their issues at the FT line, so their focus had to been split. If there were 10 or fewer seconds left, then it would have been more necessary for us to go for the tie with the 3-pointer and the Buffaloes might have zero'ed in on guarding the players on the perimeter.