WBB: Stanford 68 ASU 60 - Printable Version
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RE: Baez87 - teejers1 - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 12:09 PM)Baez87 Wrote: I enjoy the analysis and reflections that are shared on the Cardboard, but I’ll have to admit that I tire of the overly-persistent, can’t-let-go Monday Morning Quarterbacking that has dominated this thread.
Tara is the coach, she is responsible for all the practices, game prep, and game-time coaching. I don’t always agree with her coaching decisions or her treatment of players, but I give her the benefit of the doubt—she is the coach, and a very successful one at that!
We don’t know what has transpired between her and her players in practice. What we might see as a premature substitution of a player that doesn’t make the correct move might well be a response to a pattern of mis-steps stemming from practice. The substitution might be justified on events or conversations that we weren’t privy to. Tara's job is to make a "team" out of "many players." To borrow from one of her classic Tara-isms, "Basketball is a team sport. If you're into individual things, take up tennis!"
I think there is much to glean from the recent article in the Daily, which taps into the minds of Tara's players over the years. Give it a read, see what the players experienced, and you might choose to walk in Tara's moccasin before taking your point of view too seriously.
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/12/14/tara-vanderveer-history/
Agree with thrust of your post (and I'm the "can't let go" person you're speaking to). Will only close with these two observations:
1. The bolded part cuts both ways; and
2. It's not as if there's no record of coach-player going sideways in this program (which is not shocking, given longevity - it happens). But as you note, we don't know all the details of any of those instances.
Plus, the "we're not in practice, we don't know" argument can be used to limit all game discussion/criticism to . . . what?
Use of timeouts/clock management? FTR, I think Tara is generally quite good at that.
RE: Baez87 - TheFarm07 - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 12:09 PM)Baez87 Wrote: I enjoy the analysis and reflections that are shared on the Cardboard, but I’ll have to admit that I tire of the overly-persistent, can’t-let-go Monday Morning Quarterbacking that has dominated this thread.
Tara is the coach, she is responsible for all the practices, game prep, and game-time coaching. I don’t always agree with her coaching decisions or her treatment of players, but I give her the benefit of the doubt—she is the coach, and a very successful one at that!
We don’t know what has transpired between her and her players in practice. What we might see as a premature substitution of a player that doesn’t make the correct move might well be a response to a pattern of mis-steps stemming from practice. The substitution might be justified on events or conversations that we weren’t privy to. Tara's job is to make a "team" out of "many players." To borrow from one of her classic Tara-isms, "Basketball is a team sport. If you're into individual things, take up tennis!"
I think there is much to glean from the recent article in the Daily, which taps into the minds of Tara's players over the years. Give it a read, see what the players experienced, and you might choose to walk in Tara's moccasin before taking your point of view too seriously.
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/12/14/tara-vanderveer-history/
Thank you for the link to the article, that was a great walk through over Tara's career.
To your first point, I kindly would have to disagree with your perspective. Yes, we are not privy to all of the behind the scenes details and they might provide an element that would explain questions we have, but as sports fans, we often speculate and even provide criticism on coaching decisions we dislike. For me, at least, it is a venting exercise for frustration.
In comparison, this thread and other threads I peruse on this forum is sedate to the other conversations I have in other sports groups in regards to coaching and personnel decisions. You should read some of the back and forth in other chats I am part of during NFL games this past season, if you dislike the tone of this thread, you would have hated the level of in-game criticisms you would have read.
RE: Baez87 - crackpot - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 12:09 PM)Baez87 Wrote: I enjoy the analysis and reflections that are shared on the Cardboard, but I’ll have to admit that I tire of the overly-persistent, can’t-let-go Monday Morning Quarterbacking that has dominated this thread.
Tara is the coach, she is responsible for all the practices, game prep, and game-time coaching. I don’t always agree with her coaching decisions or her treatment of players, but I give her the benefit of the doubt—she is the coach, and a very successful one at that!
We don’t know what has transpired between her and her players in practice. What we might see as a premature substitution of a player that doesn’t make the correct move might well be a response to a pattern of mis-steps stemming from practice. The substitution might be justified on events or conversations that we weren’t privy to. Tara's job is to make a "team" out of "many players." To borrow from one of her classic Tara-isms, "Basketball is a team sport. If you're into individual things, take up tennis!"
I think there is much to glean from the recent article in the Daily, which taps into the minds of Tara's players over the years. Give it a read, see what the players experienced, and you might choose to walk in Tara's moccasin before taking your point of view too seriously.
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/12/14/tara-vanderveer-history/
I apologize if it has already been posted here, but the very long (but excellent) interview with Jayne Appel gave me some insight and appreciation for Tara's team mentality: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/one-and-one-podcast/id1462275750
If you have an hour to spare, it's worth it (includes more info about her broken foot that I'd not previously heard...).
RE: WBB: Stanford 68 ASU 60 - BostonCard - 01-05-2021
As I have noted elsewhere, both the following can be true:
1) Coaches are human and subject to biases; they can be wrong.
2) Coaches have much more data than us fans and have a ton more experience managing a team than us fans.
I think there is a fine line between noting an incongruous observation (Prectel appears to be getting less playing time than her basketball skills might predict) and suggesting that the coach must irrationally have it in for a player (I'm not saying anyone has said that, but posts noting that Prectel is in the doghouse do carry a hint of "Tara is acting irrationally here" to them).
BC
RE: Baez87 - Softball Fan - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 12:09 PM)Baez87 Wrote: I enjoy the analysis and reflections that are shared on the Cardboard, but I’ll have to admit that I tire of the overly-persistent, can’t-let-go Monday Morning Quarterbacking that has dominated this thread.
While I agree with the balance of your comment about Cardboard viewers not knowing what transpires in practice, I take issue with this statement. One of the main purposes of sports boards is for fans to express their opinions about players' performances and coaching decisions. Do you know of any sports board that doesn't contain a good amount of questions/criticism about coaching decisions? I don't.
As long as fans are respectful toward others' viewpoints, I don't see anything wrong with fans expressing their honest opinion about what transpired on the court of play including criticism of coaching decisions. I think it's not reasonable to constrain comments only to those who attend every practice and talk to the coach on a daily basis about her/his decision making.
RE: WBB: Stanford 68 ASU 60 - 2006alum - 01-05-2021
Here's my beef with the Prechtel Monday morning point guarding: I don't mind at all if people think Tara needs to play her more, yanks her too soon, should utilize her instead of Jerome, etc. All of those are valid points.
What I think crosses the line is speculation that she is "in the dog house," is "being treated unfairly," and "might transfer." That's total speculation, and, IMHO, not helpful to anyone.
And my reason for raising her similar minutes and performance to a sophomore year Nadia Fingall was simply to show that Tara is nothing if not consistent: same mistakes, same problems, same playing time. I think the parsimonious explanation here is simply that Prechtel needs to be more aggressive and finish better. Until facts -- rather than speculation -- prove otherwise, that's where I'm at.
Baez87 - Baez87 - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 02:35 PM)paloalto Wrote:We agree more than we disagree.(01-05-2021, 12:09 PM)Baez87 Wrote: I enjoy the analysis and reflections that are shared on the Cardboard, but I’ll have to admit that I tire of the overly-persistent, can’t-let-go Monday Morning Quarterbacking that has dominated this thread.
While I agree with the balance of your comment about Cardboard viewers not knowing what transpires in practice, I take issue with this statement. One of the main purposes of sports boards is for fans to express their opinions about players' performances and coaching decisions. Do you know of any sports board that doesn't contain a good amount of questions/criticism about coaching decisions? I don't.
As long as fans are respectful toward others' viewpoints, I don't see anything wrong with fans expressing their honest opinion about what transpired on the court of play including criticism of coaching decisions. I think it's not reasonable to constrain comments only to those who attend every practice and talk to the coach on a daily basis about her/his decision making.
Actually, I do expect fans to express their opinions and criticisms of the playing and the coaching — that’s part of the function of these boards. I said that I was willing to cut Tara some slack, but that’s my personal position, it doesn’t have to be others. I was critical of those that wouldn’t let go after having already expressed their point of view. That, too, is simply my opinion — I was airing my own grievance, not setting up a norm.
The general tone of these thread have been insightful and respectful. I appreciate all our fellow contributors for their continued civility. And, thanks for the feedback.
RE: WBB: Stanford 68 ASU 60 - martyup - 01-05-2021
I'm just glad to be following the undefeated #1 ranked WBB Stanford Cardinal, and that all there is to bicker about is potential disparity in bench playing time.
Baez87 - Baez87 - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 04:10 PM)martyup Wrote: I'm just glad to be following the undefeated #1 ranked WBB Stanford Cardinal, and that all there is to bicker about is potential disparity in bench playing time.And very glad that our team is healthy to play. Baylor coach, Kim Mulkey, was diagnosed with Covid today. Her fate certainly provides perspective!
RE: Baez87 - martyup - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 04:19 PM)Baez87 Wrote:(01-05-2021, 04:10 PM)martyup Wrote: I'm just glad to be following the undefeated #1 ranked WBB Stanford Cardinal, and that all there is to bicker about is potential disparity in bench playing time.And very glad that our team is healthy to play. Baylor coach, Kim Mulkey, was diagnosed with Covid today. Her fate certainly provides perspective!
I read that she tested positive, but has no symptoms. As Stanford fans, we know a little about false positives. I hope she tests again to confirm. Let's hope she is okay and her team can get back in action soon.
RE: Baez87 - M T - 01-05-2021
(01-05-2021, 04:27 PM)martyup Wrote:(01-05-2021, 04:19 PM)Baez87 Wrote: And very glad that our team is healthy to play. Baylor coach, Kim Mulkey, was diagnosed with Covid today. Her fate certainly provides perspective!
I read that she tested positive, but has no symptoms. As Stanford fans, we know a little about false positives. I hope she tests again to confirm. Let's hope she is okay and her team can get back in action soon.
The UConn-Baylor game is cancelled.
Assuming the test is accurate, I hope she has a mild case and that it doesn't spread to her players or other coaches.
I wish good health for all those with COVID now or to get it in the future. Whether we are athletes or not, whether we know each other or not, whether we live in the US or a third-world country, we're one team in this.