SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - Printable Version
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RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - Mick - 04-12-2021
(04-11-2021, 01:55 PM)BigJohn043 Wrote: Mens volleyball is a sport that only has 23 D1 competitors. It is so small that they combine D1 with the 25 D2 members for their championship. Although I don't believe a D2 school has ever won the championship.
The only D2 team of which I am aware that would even be eligible for the championship is UC-San Diego, and UC-SD has never played in the NCAA final four (or now, six). This year, for the first time, the SCAC conference of primarily historically black colleges will field a D2 league and will participate in the NCAA tournament. Also, there are a number of very strong NAIA schools.
If you're making the primary argument that because NCAA schools don't field many teams, then I suppose it's a good thing that we're eliminating both water polo teams (25 and 33 D1 schools), Men's Gymnastics (14), Fencing (21). Candidly, I don't know why that should be the case, but I suppose it is what it is.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - donkey687 - 04-12-2021
(04-12-2021, 11:37 AM)Mick Wrote:(04-11-2021, 01:55 PM)BigJohn043 Wrote: Mens volleyball is a sport that only has 23 D1 competitors. It is so small that they combine D1 with the 25 D2 members for their championship. Although I don't believe a D2 school has ever won the championship.
The only D2 team of which I am aware that would even be eligible for the championship is UC-San Diego, and UC-SD has never played in the NCAA final four (or now, six). This year, for the first time, the SCAC conference of primarily historically black colleges will field a D2 league and will participate in the NCAA tournament. Also, there are a number of very strong NAIA schools.
If you're making the primary argument that because NCAA schools don't field many teams, then I suppose it's a good thing that we're eliminating both water polo teams (25 and 33 D1 schools), Men's Gymnastics (14), Fencing (21). Candidly, I don't know why that should be the case, but I suppose it is what it is.
Men's Gymnastics is hanging onto NCAA status by a thread. It could be done in the next couple of years with a number of programs being cut. If that happens, Bernard will be able to cut another women's sport without violating Title IX and get our team numbers down even more.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - Canalejas - 04-12-2021
Why would the other D2 teams beyond UCSD not be eligible for the MVB championship? It's a combined championship of D1 and D2 schools.
![[Image: 7XmDhOT.png]](https://i.imgur.com/7XmDhOT.png)
https://web3.ncaa.org/directory/memberList?type=12&sportCode=MVB
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - Mick - 04-12-2021
You're right. Lewis was in the 2019 playoffs as a D2 team.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - akiddoc - 04-12-2021
(04-12-2021, 11:37 AM)Mick Wrote:(04-11-2021, 01:55 PM)BigJohn043 Wrote: Mens volleyball is a sport that only has 23 D1 competitors. It is so small that they combine D1 with the 25 D2 members for their championship. Although I don't believe a D2 school has ever won the championship.
The only D2 team of which I am aware that would even be eligible for the championship is UC-San Diego, and UC-SD has never played in the NCAA final four (or now, six). This year, for the first time, the SCAC conference of primarily historically black colleges will field a D2 league and will participate in the NCAA tournament. Also, there are a number of very strong NAIA schools.
If you're making the primary argument that because NCAA schools don't field many teams, then I suppose it's a good thing that we're eliminating both water polo teams (25 and 33 D1 schools), Men's Gymnastics (14), Fencing (21). Candidly, I don't know why that should be the case, but I suppose it is what it is.
We're not eliminating either WP team or MGYM. Yet. MGYM may be cut by the NCAA, which will decimate the Olympic team.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - needle - 04-12-2021
New ESPN article. SOS leaders really talking up the idea that the meeting will be substantive and a way to work towards saving the sports.
But what else could they say at this point?
Quote:"I don't think we need a meeting just to be placated and soothed and be told that we've been heard," said former NBA player Adam Keefe, a 2000 induction into the school's athletic hall of fame who now works as a financial advisor. "We've had that meeting before. So the fact that [Tessier-Lavigne] reached out lends us to believe that they're actually trying to figure out how to right this wrong, and how to restore the institutional credibility that they've lost to this process.
"I think after digging, really deep diving into the finances, it is very clear that this is not a financial decision. Cutting the 11 Sports will not eliminate the deficit in the athletic department."
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31229795/can-stanford-wrestling-10-other-programs-saved
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - dabigv13 - 04-12-2021
Good article, seems to sum up the state of play pretty well. Some bits that stuck out to me:
Quote:"The fundraising numbers cited by groups that have organized to reinstate individual sports and all 11 sports have significantly underestimated the total amount of funding required to support the programs they wish to reinstate and, in most cases, do not appear to be accounting for the need to adhere to Title IX gender equity requirements.
Perhaps wrestling and MVB have enough money, but synchronized swimming and squash don't.
These two bits seem in tension-
Quote:"President Tessier-Lavigne looks forward to meeting with the leaders behind the petition to ensure their perspectives are thoroughly heard."
Quote:"I don't think we need a meeting just to be placated and soothed and be told that we've been heard," said former NBA player Adam Keefe, a 2000 induction into the school's athletic hall of fame who now works as a financial advisor.
Muir must be a good liar....
Quote:Borrelli said he raised the admissions issue with Muir after the announced cuts.
"I asked him, 'Is this about admissions? Do they want admission spots back?' And he said, 'No, that never came up,'" Borrelli, who was named the 2021 Pac-12 wrestling coach of the year, said. "And they've doubled down on that so many times where they've said it's not about that. 'It's about finances, it's about finances, it's about competitive excellence. It's about these things.' We've given them so many opportunities to tell us that it's about admissions or what it's really about."
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - BigJohn043 - 04-13-2021
(04-12-2021, 11:37 AM)Mick Wrote:(04-11-2021, 01:55 PM)BigJohn043 Wrote: Mens volleyball is a sport that only has 23 D1 competitors. It is so small that they combine D1 with the 25 D2 members for their championship. Although I don't believe a D2 school has ever won the championship.
The only D2 team of which I am aware that would even be eligible for the championship is UC-San Diego, and UC-SD has never played in the NCAA final four (or now, six). This year, for the first time, the SCAC conference of primarily historically black colleges will field a D2 league and will participate in the NCAA tournament. Also, there are a number of very strong NAIA schools.
If you're making the primary argument that because NCAA schools don't field many teams, then I suppose it's a good thing that we're eliminating both water polo teams (25 and 33 D1 schools), Men's Gymnastics (14), Fencing (21). Candidly, I don't know why that should be the case, but I suppose it is what it is.
I am making the argument that you have to consider the size of the sport when evaluating performance. Water polo and gymnastics are both very small sports but we compete for the national title every year. Volleyball's performance is even less impressive when you consider the lack of competition....
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - donkey687 - 04-13-2021
Encouraging report from 36 strong coming out of their meeting today. It sounds like reinstatement of those sports will be considered by the board. Taking it out of Bernard's hands is a good thing for those 11 sports.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1382117199029047296/photo/1[/tweet]
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - Jamesy - 04-13-2021
Borelli just took the wrestling job at American University.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - winflop - 04-13-2021
(04-13-2021, 05:03 PM)Jamesy Wrote: Borelli just took the wrestling job at American University.
Bird in the hand...
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - martyup - 04-14-2021
(04-13-2021, 05:03 PM)Jamesy Wrote: Borelli just took the wrestling job at American University.
That's a big loss. Thanks Stanford.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - akiddoc - 04-14-2021
(04-13-2021, 04:52 PM)donkey687 Wrote: Encouraging report from 36 strong coming out of their meeting today. It sounds like reinstatement of those sports will be considered by the board. Taking it out of Bernard's hands is a good thing for those 11 sports.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BonaguraESPN/status/1382117199029047296/photo/1[/tweet]
The idea that Muir came up with this idea is absurd. He's carrying out his orders. And he'll be a convenient scapegoat.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - Goose - 04-15-2021
(04-14-2021, 10:55 PM)akiddoc Wrote: The idea that Muir came up with this idea is absurd. He's carrying out his orders. And he'll be a convenient scapegoat.I am not sure why you feel that way. I think it probable this approach was originated by Muir and his accounting staff. He had a budget problem and needed a solution that would cause the least disruption. Cutting across the board would impact football, and that would probably be politically a no go from the start. Getting rid of "small" sports seemed like the least objectionable way ahead, with the added benefit it didn't raise too many title IX problems. Undoubtedly some push-back was expected, but probably not as much as actually happened.
It is my impression that most "service" or non-academic programs, (such as facilities, the housing office, public safety, and athletics) have always been and continue to be mostly independent fiefdoms. The "administration" only pays attention to them when their are big problems that can't be ignored. As a result, these departments tend to grow unchecked, spend all the money they can get, and do things that may not make sense to anyone but themselves. They get "general directives" from the "central government" that they can usually morph into what they consider in their own interest. Over a period of years one of these groups goes too far off the rails and gets temporarily scrutinized and excoriated. Then the status quo ante is restored and the cycle begins again.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - cardcrimson - 04-15-2021
(04-15-2021, 07:34 AM)Goose Wrote: I think it probable this approach was originated by Muir and his accounting staff. He had a budget problem and needed a solution that would cause the least disruption.
You mean the least disruption to this, his empire: https://gostanford.com/staff-directory
Though I've nothing to compare it with, seems really bloated.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - donkey687 - 04-15-2021
Quote:The idea that Muir came up with this idea is absurd. He's carrying out his orders. And he'll be a convenient scapegoat.
Muir had a problem to solve and this was his recommendation. He also tried cutting sports at Delaware and Georgetown. He sold this plan to MTL in order to protect and focus resources on major sports. The board was pitched this plan as necessary financially. The board was not told it was admissions based. MTL is now realizing there is more blowback than expected and maybe all options weren't considered.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - 82lsju - 04-15-2021
(04-15-2021, 08:33 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(04-15-2021, 07:34 AM)Goose Wrote: I think it probable this approach was originated by Muir and his accounting staff. He had a budget problem and needed a solution that would cause the least disruption.
You mean the least disruption to this, his empire: https://gostanford.com/staff-directory
Though I've nothing to compare it with, seems really bloated.
here's the Ohio State directory (I picked them since they have about the same number of sports we had)
https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/staff-directory/
note some people show up more than once either because they are a shared resource or as the org is expanded they show up as a member of a higher level department then running their department
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - BobK - 04-15-2021
I didn’t see recreation under the AD at Ohio State. Apples and oranges and Ohio sept still brobdingnagian. Or bloated :)
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - Jamesy - 04-15-2021
(04-15-2021, 07:34 AM)Goose Wrote:(04-14-2021, 10:55 PM)akiddoc Wrote: The idea that Muir came up with this idea is absurd. He's carrying out his orders. And he'll be a convenient scapegoat.I am not sure why you feel that way. I think it probable this approach was originated by Muir and his accounting staff. He had a budget problem and needed a solution that would cause the least disruption. Cutting across the board would impact football, and that would probably be politically a no go from the start. Getting rid of "small" sports seemed like the least objectionable way ahead, with the added benefit it didn't raise too many title IX problems. Undoubtedly some push-back was expected, but probably not as much as actually happened.
It is my impression that most "service" or non-academic programs, (such as facilities, the housing office, public safety, and athletics) have always been and continue to be mostly independent fiefdoms. The "administration" only pays attention to them when their are big problems that can't be ignored. As a result, these departments tend to grow unchecked, spend all the money they can get, and do things that may not make sense to anyone but themselves. They get "general directives" from the "central government" that they can usually morph into what they consider in their own interest. Over a period of years one of these groups goes too far off the rails and gets temporarily scrutinized and excoriated. Then the status quo ante is restored and the cycle begins again.
Ironically (given the first gen and low income athletes in the sport) and Title IX number issues aside, if Muir hadn't cut wrestling, he probably would have been able to cut the remaining sports without significant blowback.
RE: SU BoT will consider request to save 11 sports - cardcrimson - 04-15-2021
(04-15-2021, 09:11 AM)82lsju Wrote:(04-15-2021, 08:33 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(04-15-2021, 07:34 AM)Goose Wrote: I think it probable this approach was originated by Muir and his accounting staff. He had a budget problem and needed a solution that would cause the least disruption.
You mean the least disruption to this, his empire: https://gostanford.com/staff-directory
Though I've nothing to compare it with, seems really bloated.
here's the Ohio State directory (I picked them since they have about the same number of sports we had)
https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/staff-directory/
note some people show up more than once either because they are a shared resource or as the org is expanded they show up as a member of a higher level department then running their department
Ohio State has chefs, cooks and plumbers listed. Don't our athletes eat and poop?
The real question are all those positions really necessary and are they more important to maintain than the sports themselves?