End of Pac12? - Printable Version
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RE: End of Pac12? - cardcrimson - 06-30-2022
If you take football out of the decision, or at least raise the importance of the other sports, especially non-revenue sports, does that impact your decision. . . .
RE: End of Pac12? - ColoradoTree - 06-30-2022
If the choice was Big Ten without Cal or be left out and stay with Cal… this isn't a hard choice. Annual OOC rivalry game, and we schedule them in Olympic sports because of proximity. BYU-Utah style. It’s fine.
I care infinitely more about Stanford sports and their continued success (and heck, survival) than I do about the Cal rivalry.
To be clear, I wish I could have both, and screw the LA schools for doing this to the rest of us, but it’s every man for himself now, and I don’t want to be left behind.
RE: End of Pac12? - gailtate - 06-30-2022
(06-30-2022, 11:00 AM)needle Wrote: This would be quite the coup for the Big 10. No doubt that the LA schools are the eye candy for midwest ADs eyeing major media market exposure and easy-ish travel access.
UW, Oregon just don't fit that description.
Stanford and Cal *could* be invited, but it seems evident that the parties involved in the backroom dealing have no interest in that.
Why the hell would they want to dilute their Conference?
RE: End of Pac12? - BostonCard - 07-01-2022
Well, it’s been fun, guys. The writing has been on the wall for a while, and as hard as it is to take, we are probably not going to be one of the big boys, and I am not sure we should be. The direction of travel is pretty clear and has been for some time. The “revenue” collegiate sports are becoming a semi-pro league affiliated with educational institutions. It has been fun to root for Stanford as the team that sometimes defied the odds and actually hued to the idea of actual student-athletes playing collegiate athletics, and, critically, excelling as students. Alas, I don’t see how we can do that going forward in basketball and football, and I’m not sure how we can keep the non-revenue sports alive without the revenue that football and basketball bring in.
The demise of Stanford athletics is happening slowly and all of a sudden.
BC
RE: End of Pac12? - TriangleTree - 07-01-2022
(07-01-2022, 12:21 AM)BostonCard Wrote: The demise of Stanford athletics is happening slowly and all of a sudden.
BC
Sure looks like a more likely prospect now.
Is it the most likely though, or will the agony be extended?
Stanford surely has the appeal to get an invite to one of the new super conferences, right?
Would we really turn it down?
RE: End of Pac12? - Phogge - 07-01-2022
Western Ivy League
Cal
Pitzer
Reed
Evergreen
Cal Poly Pomona
Cal Tech
Carlmont
Stanford
LaVerne?
RE: End of Pac12? - Maple Leaf - 07-01-2022
Northern Cal Big 10:
Sonoma State
SF State
SJ State
USF
Santa Clara
Saint Mary's
Sac State
Davis
Cal
Stanford
The league is sponsored by the Northern California Cannabis Growers Association. No problem with playing big time NIL/Free Agency with the big boys (or now little boys) in the midwest and south, plus no salary cap!
RE: End of Pac12? - Goose - 07-01-2022
(07-01-2022, 01:15 AM)TriangleTree Wrote: Stanford surely has the appeal to get an invite to one of the new super conferences, right?I seriously doubt Stanford has the appeal to get an invite to the B1G, at least in the immediate future. If U$C and UCLA joining turns out to be geographically untenable, or if the B1G is trying to create a "national super conference" to rival the SEC (and look like the NFL), some other PAC-12 schools may get/be allowed to join. Stanford doesn't deliver the Bay Area television market. Stanford + Kal doesn't either. We don't draw big crowds and probably never will. I think Oregon is marginal at best because their State is just too small. Washington and Utah have larger TV markets in their immediate urban area. In the past, nobody took Utah seriously. Lots of reason to believe nobody will now. Under those constraints, I don't see an offer being extended. We don't get the chance to say "no" IMHO.
Would we really turn it down?
RE: End of Pac12? - Bampa - 07-01-2022
I think the newness and travel might be cool and exciting the first couple of years...but after that, it will become a real drag.
RE: End of Pac12? - grendalor - 07-01-2022
Pac12 is definitely dead as a conference for sure.
In theory, I could see a megamerger kind of thing between the remnants of the Pac12 and B12 (maybe not all teams but most teams) to create another superconference, since superconferences seem to be how football will work moving forward. But, theory aside, in practice I don't see that working, because of the terrible geography coupled with the less than compelling lineup for the remaining "revenue draw" schools in the Pac12 (Oregon and UW).
More likely I think is a split up with perhaps UW and Oregon going to the B1G, the Arizona and Rockies schools going to the B12, and Cal and Stanford melting into something like the Mountain West, or perhaps leaving FBS altogether. I doubt that most of the B1G is interested in sharing revenue with the likes of Cal and Stanford. They have one Northwestern already, they don't need or want three of them. UO has a national TV name and can draw for marquee national matchups in TV games even though it doesn't have a large media market at home, and UW has a decent media market and a decent football name as well -- I can see those two generating some interest in the B1G, although it will be a harder sell to the entire league than SoCal was with its massive revenue and recruiting market.
In all a sad end to the Pacific conference, really. The contours of the national organization of the sport are changing dramatically such that it appears likely there will be 2 megaconferences, and then everyone else relegated to "non-mega", meaning non-televised (much), meaning non-revenue. It's all consolidating rapidly right now.
While it's sad, I really wonder how much I care at this point. CFB is so dysfunctional in so many ways currently (in particular its extreme top-heaviness), that the existing conference schemes were already losing their substance in many ways for a number of years. They had the air of anachronism in them given that the gravitas of the entire sport had been translated upward into a tiny clique of teams, institutionally supported by the playoff scheme (which will likely be slightly expanded in a 2 mega-conference scenario), with everything else being, de facto, diminished. What we are seeing is the rest of the institutional structures being "gleichgeschaltet" with what the TV giants want, as was the case with the playoff itself.
I am sure there are lots of interesting conversations taking place among the ADs of the remaining Pac12 schools. I am wondering how viable Stanford's approach to athletics remains, over the long term, with a greatly diminished revenue stream from the money sports, among other things, but for the moment the issue is whether anything is salvageable or not -- I am guessing that if it is, it won't be for Stanford and Cal, but for UO and UW.
RE: End of Pac12? - CardinalSagehen - 07-01-2022
(07-01-2022, 04:49 AM)Phogge Wrote: Western Ivy League
Cal
Pitzer
Reed
Evergreen
Cal Poly Pomona
Cal Tech
Carlmont
Stanford
LaVerne?
Now that is a mega-conference - I like it!
Throw in Lewis & Clark and the University of Puget Sound to extend the footprint in the Northwest.
Down south, Claremont McKenna will want in, but we have to have standards, after all. We are already blanketing the Valley with Pomona-Pitzer and LaVerne.
Create a TV network that is only available on Dish Pay-Per-View and start all games after dark at 10pm PT to catch people that are traveling overseas.
RE: End of Pac12? - cardcrimson - 07-01-2022
Why do folks think so myopically? Certainly Stanford would enhance the Big whatever. Academically of course. Athletically as well, just not at football and basketball at the moment.
Stanford made the CWS in baseball, top 10 in softball, second in women's rowing, etc etc etc. Add to that national championships in women's golf and water polo and second in the Directors Cup, we'd certainly add athletic prestige to any conference.
RE: End of Pac12? - UltimateCard - 07-01-2022
Wondering what Phil Knight is thinking right now, with the two schools he’s supported so generously on the outside looking in…
RE: End of Pac12? - TrumpCard - 07-01-2022
Right and with remote learning, student athletes can be based in a new Stanford campus in the Midwest during the quarter in which their sport has travel games. They can study online and maintain relationships with their classmates on FaceTime. It’s a great new world. :-(
RE: End of Pac12? - French Rage - 07-01-2022
(07-01-2022, 07:41 AM)Goose Wrote:(07-01-2022, 01:15 AM)TriangleTree Wrote: Stanford surely has the appeal to get an invite to one of the new super conferences, right?I seriously doubt Stanford has the appeal to get an invite to the B1G, at least in the immediate future. If U$C and UCLA joining turns out to be geographically untenable, or if the B1G is trying to create a "national super conference" to rival the SEC (and look like the NFL), some other PAC-12 schools may get/be allowed to join. Stanford doesn't deliver the Bay Area television market. Stanford + Kal doesn't either. We don't draw big crowds and probably never will. I think Oregon is marginal at best because their State is just too small. Washington and Utah have larger TV markets in their immediate urban area. In the past, nobody took Utah seriously. Lots of reason to believe nobody will now. Under those constraints, I don't see an offer being extended. We don't get the chance to say "no" IMHO.
Would we really turn it down?
Rutgers doesn't deliver NYC but that didn't stop them from adding them to get that market. While Stanford/Cal doesn't deliver the Bay Area as strongly as other team's deliver their media market, you need at least some semblance of a presence in order to justify inclusion in cable packages, and Stanford/Cal are currently your best (close to only) choices in that regard for a top 10 media market.
RE: End of Pac12? - Maple Leaf - 07-01-2022
The money issues behind UCLA, USC, going to the B1G and for Oklahoma and Texas to SEC makes $ense. But how well will those teams perform against their other respective conference foes in most sports. Sure, UCLA and USC should do well with beach volleyball, sun tanning glitter, but not so much with the money sports. Will UCLA's undergrad admission requirements be a hurdle too high for the baby bears to compete in football and basketball, they have not been all that competitive in the Pac 12 in football but have had some success with basketball. What happens at USC if Riley is not the second coming of either Pete Carroll or the two Johns?
Will be interesting to see if the B1G and SEC will jettison some of their current schools or will they keep them for in conference body bag opponents.
RE: End of Pac12? - OutsiderFan - 07-01-2022
I guarantee all of you that the Bay Area would absolutely care a lot if Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska were coming to play games at Cal and Stanford, and Cal and Stanford were going to play games at those places. Playing in a Big Deal college conference with the big boys changes everything.
Sorry, but even though Stanford can't beat WSU, playing the Coogs and Beavs doesn't move the needle. Stanford and Cal can thrive in the big leagues. They will both fade into relevance otherwise.
So they either move on to the big leagues or disappear entirely.
RE: End of Pac12? - fullmetal - 07-01-2022
The ADs are going to get paid for joining the megaconferences, but the football/basketball head coaches will be facepalming at the prospect of punching with sports factories and fighting for their professional lives. Surely the Pac-12 was an easier conference.
If I were Bernie, I'd have a detailed chat with all my megadonor/boosters. They are, after all, pretty much the purseholders.
RE: End of Pac12? - Maple Leaf - 07-01-2022
Quote:If I were Bernie, I'd have a detailed chat with all my megadonor/boosters. They are, after all, pretty much the purseholders.
excellent approach, If I were Bernie I would have the president, provost and university bartender at the meeting, and having the CFO in attendance might be nice.
RE: End of Pac12? - Spiny_Norman - 07-01-2022
(07-01-2022, 09:29 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I guarantee all of you that the Bay Area would absolutely care a lot if Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska were coming to play games at Cal and Stanford, and Cal and Stanford were going to play games at those places. Playing in a Big Deal college conference with the big boys changes everything.
Sorry, but even though Stanford can't beat WSU, playing the Coogs and Beavs doesn't move the needle. Stanford and Cal can thrive in the big leagues. They will both fade into relevance otherwise.
So they either move on to the big leagues or disappear entirely.
I agree 100% that the P12 is dead. No way that Colorado, Utah, Arizona, ASU stick around. Some or all of them will be bolting for the B12.
Stanford and Cal can approach another league about joining. But ultimately, they have to be invited. How would it make business sense for the B10 to invite Stanford, Cal, Oregon or UW? The additional schools would dilute the share that the legacy schools receive from their massive broadcast rights contracts. And the additional schools would not make those contracts that much more valuable to offset the dilution.
The only option that makes sense from a conference business perspective would be the Big12. After OU and Texas leave, there will be 12 remaining schools. They have room to expand. And they probably would welcome the addition of major markets like Phoenix, Denver, Seattle and the Bay Area to help with their broadcast rights negotiations. Of course from an academic prestige and history perspective, it's not a fit at all. But money is driving these decisions. Soooooo much money.
Stanford does have one connection to the B12 - Bob Bowlsby, the outgoing conference commissioner.