Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not (/thread-23529.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not (/thread-23529.html)
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Mick - 10-11-2022
(10-10-2022, 02:08 PM)gailtate Wrote:(10-10-2022, 12:22 PM)2006alum Wrote:(10-10-2022, 09:09 AM)msqueri Wrote:(10-10-2022, 08:54 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: In the extremely unlikely possibility that Shaw gets fired, who gets the interim gig? Scary thought. . . .
Honestly, I don't care. The season is lost and what's important for the program is finding the right next permanent coach and, secondarily (but almost irrelevant compared to priority number one of getting the right permanent hire), stabilizing recruiting to the extent possible. Pritchard or Anderson would be fine as an interim in my view. Gould has been a head coach before if one cares about that. Heck, have Willingham end the season for all I care.
I don't know why any of this should scare us compared to the status quo. What's scarier than losing more than anybody over a four stretch and twice going a calendar year without an FBS win? We lose to Utah by 30 instead of 20?
This. We're essentially back to where Stanford football was during my undergrad days - an also ran, bottom-feeder that no one but a few ardent fans follow, and that required once-in-a-generation "EUTM" to resuscitate from its zombie-state. It's too bad, because I really like David Shaw the man, and his brand of coaching, when it worked, was in the best tradition of the Stanford student-athlete model.
But Shaw's approach is so evidently not working, and he has refused to do some of the things that have long seemed necessary (replacing assistant coaches, hiring a dedicated OC, etc.) to right the ship. At this point, as reluctant as I am to admit it, I think it's time to look for a new coach, because it's hard to get worse than 0-11 against FBS schools...
"I really like David Shaw the man, and his brand of coaching, when it worked, was in the best tradition of the Stanford student-athlete model."
Hear, hear. Up to a point. Shaw was an apparent rising star until he was not, then exposed as something less. My point is that he really had no "brand" of his own as such; what he was doing was applying what amounted to the EUTM blueprint but in a rote, unimaginative mechanical way. Left to his own devices over the years, he ultimately failed. A shame, of course, because the planets and stars were aligned in 2010-12 for something truly dynastic. They were set up for an inheritor who was not to be.
After 30 years managing a team and running a function, I've come to one major conclusion: that strategy is important, but team is crucial and your #2s will make or break you. And as my dad always said, it's not the people you fire that make your life miserable...it's the people you don't fire.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Austroturf - 10-11-2022
(10-11-2022, 04:46 AM)msqueri Wrote: Minor correction: not true that all of Harbaugh’s hires except Shaw eventually left as Lance Anderson is still around. Anderson was not only hired by Harbaugh but was one of two coaches (Drevno the other) to be on all six of Harbaugh’s first staffs. Even Shaw himself didn’t join until the second year at San Diego. Of course, the issue isn’t Anderson being on staff but the defensive coordinator role Shaw elevated Anderson to without any accountability for results.
Thanks for the clarification. I did not know that.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - 2006alum - 10-11-2022
Mick, excellent points. Other than the ill-faited softball hire that was all but bound to fail given the broader circumstances surrounding that hire, can anyone think of any coaches that Muir has let go, or assistants that Shaw has? I can't think of a single one in what is now a decade of their leadership at the helm...
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Treebound - 10-11-2022
The major transitions that I can think of under Muir were Dawkins and our Strength and Conditioning coach for football (Turley). There were some wrinkles with each of them. I think there were also changes in Swimming and Women's Lax (Amy Bocker?), but I don't recall if those were resignations. With the $'s that the SEC and the Big10 will be generating via their media rights deals, more and more of our top coaches will be targets for poaching. It's already happening, just not for the coaches we would like to see go...
With our current trajectory, the NIL arms race and the one way (for Stanford) transfer portal, it's going to be a long, slow road to recovery. That being said, we need some fire, some intensity, some EUTM to bring this thing back to life. I was thinking about heading out to Notre Dame for the game, but not now.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - cardcrimson - 10-11-2022
(10-11-2022, 12:59 PM)2006alum Wrote: Mick, excellent points. Other than the ill-faited softball hire that was all but bound to fail given the broader circumstances surrounding that hire, can anyone think of any coaches that Muir has let go, or assistants that Shaw has? I can't think of a single one in what is now a decade of their leadership at the helm...One of the more terrifying experiences in my professional life was during my first year out of Stanford. I was the production manager on a factory floor in East LA. The assistant foreman on the second shift, who allegedly had "connections" and was rumored to have killed someone in Mexico, punched someone. I got the lucky assignment to fire him. His hands were literally shaking with a mix of rage and remorse as I told him he was gone. I watched my mirrors very closely for the next month or so. . . .
If a 23 year old can do it, one would think Muir and Shaw could, too. . . .
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - BostonCard - 10-11-2022
(10-11-2022, 12:59 PM)2006alum Wrote: Mick, excellent points. Other than the ill-faited softball hire that was all but bound to fail given the broader circumstances surrounding that hire, can anyone think of any coaches that Muir has let go, or assistants that Shaw has? I can't think of a single one in what is now a decade of their leadership at the helm...
Dawkins was fired (too late for some, and the replacement hasn’t been better).
BC
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Mick - 10-11-2022
(10-11-2022, 01:38 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: One of the more terrifying experiences in my professional life was during my first year out of Stanford. I was the production manager on a factory floor in East LA. The assistant foreman on the second shift, who allegedly had "connections" and was rumored to have killed someone in Mexico, punched someone. I got the lucky assignment to fire him. His hands were literally shaking with a mix of rage and remorse as I told him he was gone. I watched my mirrors very closely for the next month or so. . . .
I had that same experience with the first person I ever fired. My boss met him, demanded that I hire him. I met the guy, told the boss that I found him objectionable in every conceivable way and didn't want to work with him. Boss literally says "It's not your job to like him, it's your job to hire him." I hired Jeff and he failed quickly and spectacularly, offending numerous clients and potential clients.
He was a big man, very much in shape, and had about fifty pounds on me. He drove a brobdingnagian, fast motorcycle. I told our office manager that I had to fire him and I was more than a little nervous, and that I thought the odds were that he would turn violent. The OM told me that there was a simple trick to getting people to behave when they were getting fired. Just watch, says she, a miniscule type.
We call Jeff into the conference room, and our OM had his final paycheck ready and about two feet in front of her on the table. She tells him it's not working out and it's time to part ways. He starts to snarl and gets up out of his chair...at which point our OM puts her hand on his final check and slowly pulls it back to her. He calmed down instantly and we got through the rest of it without any issues.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - winflop - 10-11-2022
(10-11-2022, 02:44 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(10-11-2022, 12:59 PM)2006alum Wrote: Mick, excellent points. Other than the ill-faited softball hire that was all but bound to fail given the broader circumstances surrounding that hire, can anyone think of any coaches that Muir has let go, or assistants that Shaw has? I can't think of a single one in what is now a decade of their leadership at the helm...
Dawkins was fired (too late for some, and the replacement hasn’t been better).
BC
Firing Dawkins should have been one of the first things Muir did when he took the job. Then he sat on three more years of mediocrity until he had no choice but to fire him. He's done similarly with Haase. If he tries to pull this crap with Shaw he'll be facing an even emptier stadium and more games on P12N at 8pm
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - Leftcoast - 10-11-2022
Not sure if you were referencing Saturday night's 8pm game but at least it was on ESPN. Although with a finish around 3am East Coast time no one outside of the the Pacific time zone was watching the "thrilling" (if you weren't rooting for Stanford) finish.
RE: Simple Poll. Should Shaw Stay or Not - gailtate - 10-11-2022
(10-11-2022, 08:46 AM)Mick Wrote:(10-10-2022, 02:08 PM)gailtate Wrote:(10-10-2022, 12:22 PM)2006alum Wrote:(10-10-2022, 09:09 AM)msqueri Wrote:(10-10-2022, 08:54 AM)cardcrimson Wrote: In the extremely unlikely possibility that Shaw gets fired, who gets the interim gig? Scary thought. . . .
Honestly, I don't care. The season is lost and what's important for the program is finding the right next permanent coach and, secondarily (but almost irrelevant compared to priority number one of getting the right permanent hire), stabilizing recruiting to the extent possible. Pritchard or Anderson would be fine as an interim in my view. Gould has been a head coach before if one cares about that. Heck, have Willingham end the season for all I care.
I don't know why any of this should scare us compared to the status quo. What's scarier than losing more than anybody over a four stretch and twice going a calendar year without an FBS win? We lose to Utah by 30 instead of 20?
This. We're essentially back to where Stanford football was during my undergrad days - an also ran, bottom-feeder that no one but a few ardent fans follow, and that required once-in-a-generation "EUTM" to resuscitate from its zombie-state. It's too bad, because I really like David Shaw the man, and his brand of coaching, when it worked, was in the best tradition of the Stanford student-athlete model.
But Shaw's approach is so evidently not working, and he has refused to do some of the things that have long seemed necessary (replacing assistant coaches, hiring a dedicated OC, etc.) to right the ship. At this point, as reluctant as I am to admit it, I think it's time to look for a new coach, because it's hard to get worse than 0-11 against FBS schools...
"I really like David Shaw the man, and his brand of coaching, when it worked, was in the best tradition of the Stanford student-athlete model."
Hear, hear. Up to a point. Shaw was an apparent rising star until he was not, then exposed as something less. My point is that he really had no "brand" of his own as such; what he was doing was applying what amounted to the EUTM blueprint but in a rote, unimaginative mechanical way. Left to his own devices over the years, he ultimately failed. A shame, of course, because the planets and stars were aligned in 2010-12 for something truly dynastic. They were set up for an inheritor who was not to be.
After 30 years managing a team and running a function, I've come to one major conclusion: that strategy is important, but team is crucial and your #2s will make or break you. And as my dad always said, it's not the people you fire that make your life miserable...it's the people you don't fire.
Wish I had said what your dad said. Wise man, he.