WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25

WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - amytmueller - 11-03-2022

(11-02-2022, 08:48 PM)WBB fan Wrote: I would have been there had the ticket problems not been an issue. But the livestream worked reasonably well. Overall, very impressed after that slow start -- great to see everyone contribute. Betts is going to be really good, very few minutes in this game, but when she was in, clearly had an impact. The most exciting thing from her for me was that mid-range jumper. If she can do that as well as closer in, she's going to be a nightmare to defend. Kiki, great, and Lepolo definitly is going to be a real contributor at pg. Good things to think about for everyone!

If you had problems downloading tickets on your Android device, they just updated the app in the Google Play Store today which fixes the problem, so update your app!

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - M T - 11-03-2022

I missed the first quarter of the game, but of what I saw,

Brink should have been called for at least two fouls, IMO. One was a defensive swipe, and another was bowling over a shorter player on the way to the hoop. Congrats to her for 4/4 from the FT line! But otherwise, nothing that showed a strong improvement.

Prechtel didn't play the first half at all but 12 others did. Maybe she was late to practice or something and was benched for a half? She came in during what would normally be called garbage time. The 8-person squad was run into the floor by the 15-person squad. I wasn't that impressed. She's got stiff hands and isn't physically aggressive. She is an intelligent player. Yes, she's had some great moments under pressure, but I don't think she's going to see much time.

Betts only played 7 minutes. To me, she looked like she was still playing against shorter, high-school players. Her running the court wasn't up to even Prechtel (who does sometimes show the defense up by beating them down the court), but I've seen a lot worse. Perhaps she's still getting used to her size. She had an imposing size on the court, but she still has a lot of development to do. (Seeing Betts makes me appreciate Brink even more.) I recall one series where she got the ball under her basket and wound up having to do a dribble before putting up a shot. She loses all the advantage of her size with that dribble.

Put me in the camp of thinking Lepolo did a really good job, especially for a freshman. I don't recall seeing her make the mistakes that some of our previous point guards made too often. Yeah, develop a credible 3-point shot and she could be a starter.

Anyone else think Jump is going to be a WNBA All-Star? She is sooo good and works so hard on the court (and, apparently, off the court).

I thought Vanguard did a better job than Stanford at setting picks, esp. considering the length difference. Basically, they had to. Stanford didn't have to and often just played one-on-one (and won).

It was a fun evening. I'm out of town next week, which means I miss FOUR games. Ouch. Keep up the good reporting.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - cardfan1996 - 11-03-2022

Just saw the rest of the game. Thank you to whomever uploaded and posted the link. These are my top 3 of the 2nd half.

1. Bosgana (love her overall “ball” skills; has a ton of potential to be elite if she gets time on the floor)

2. Jzaniya - really great on offense (pushing the pace AND scoring) and defense

3. Demetre - always a good offensive player; was more sound on defense even though she is somewhat laterally challenged.

Nivar - really faster than everyone else and skilled in the open court. Her shot is on trajectory but a little too “deliberate” right now. Would love for them to test her at the point.

I think both Bosgana and Jzaniya would be better options at the point than Haley or Lepolo. Even Nivar would work. Both (Bosgana and Jzaniya) push pace but both are willing scorers. I am of the firm belief you will never transform a reluctant shooter into a confident one. And if there were ever a time to bomb away, it’s against a Div III? opponent in an exhibition game where you are up 50, 60 and 70 points and the game doesn’t even count. It’s not even a real game and you are reluctant to shoot says a lot to me. Lepolo and Agnes present the same problem though Lepolo’s shot is at least on trajectory. Agnes’ shot looks the same to me as it did last year - a bit jittery and unlikely to go in very much.

Re: Pretchel

I think her at the 5 and Brink at the 4 (Haley at the 3), means no one scores inside on Stanford. You pretty much turn your opponent into jump shooters. Brink struggled against every elite 5 last year - Key, Boston and Sabally. She was either on the floor or on the bench. Ashten regularly blocked them all and locked them up. Sure, she needs to work on her bunnies, but Tara plays her so much on the perimeter that her inside game is very underdeveloped as a senior. That is not totally Ashten’s fault.

Defensively, she gives you the twin towers if you will. Offensively, you have to guard her out several feet beyond the 3-point line which leaves a ton of space for Haley and Brink to work in their sweet spots which is free throw line extended. Haley and Brink do not need to jack up a lot of 3s. That is not their game.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - 81alum - 11-03-2022

Vanguard played Cal tonight. Score: Cal 80 Vanguard 58.

Of course we don't know if Cal is that bad or whether Vanguard is a lot better than they showed against us. Or maybe we are that good. Probably a bit of all three.

The question has come up as to whether Vanguard is more like a Div II or Div III team. The NAIA is entirely separate from the NCAA and does not have the same divisions. NAIA teams can give athletic scholarships, which is more like Div II, but not all of them do. So some NAIA teams are more like Div II and some are more like Div III.

Vanguard gives about 30% of its players athletic scholarships, according to one website, with others getting need based aid.

The Vanguard coach, however, is an elite coach. As Bob pointed out, he has coached many Stanford players when they were playing for his club team, Cal Swish, and is the current coach for Juju Watkins.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - joemontes - 11-03-2022

(11-03-2022, 06:43 PM)M T Wrote: I missed the first quarter of the game, but of what I saw,

Brink should have been called for at least two fouls, IMO. One was a defensive swipe, and another was bowling over a shorter player on the way to the hoop. Congrats to her for 4/4 from the FT line! But otherwise, nothing that showed a strong improvement.

Prechtel didn't play the first half at all but 12 others did. Maybe she was late to practice or something and was benched for a half? She came in during what would normally be called garbage time. The 8-person squad was run into the floor by the 15-person squad. I wasn't that impressed. She's got stiff hands and isn't physically aggressive. She is an intelligent player. Yes, she's had some great moments under pressure, but I don't think she's going to see much time.

Betts only played 7 minutes. To me, she looked like she was still playing against shorter, high-school players. Her running the court wasn't up to even Prechtel (who does sometimes show the defense up by beating them down the court), but I've seen a lot worse. Perhaps she's still getting used to her size. She had an imposing size on the court, but she still has a lot of development to do. (Seeing Betts makes me appreciate Brink even more.) I recall one series where she got the ball under her basket and wound up having to do a dribble before putting up a shot. She loses all the advantage of her size with that dribble.

Put me in the camp of thinking Lepolo did a really good job, especially for a freshman. I don't recall seeing her make the mistakes that some of our previous point guards made too often. Yeah, develop a credible 3-point shot and she could be a starter.

Anyone else think Jump is going to be a WNBA All-Star? She is sooo good and works so hard on the court (and, apparently, off the court).

I thought Vanguard did a better job than Stanford at setting picks, esp. considering the length difference. Basically, they had to. Stanford didn't have to and often just played one-on-one (and won).

It was a fun evening. I'm out of town next week, which means I miss FOUR games. Ouch. Keep up the good reporting.

I think BETTS played pretty well. Her offensive arsenal has really expanded to include
a beautiful turnaround jumper (which she successfully shot 3x) and mid-range shot
from 15-18 feet. Kind of awkward for her defending a 5'10 player and that's understandable
for a pure post player.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - treetop11 - 11-03-2022

Vanguard was no match especially without their best player, but I'm glad that they hustled and played hard, notably on D. They at least made us work especially in the first half. We had problems at the start particularly with a bigger lineup as the Vanguard players seemed to play "underneath us" which I think our girls weren't used to at all 5 positions. It seemed like Tara thouight that as she subbed in our smaller quicker players liberally.

Nobody has touched on one thing I saw last night that was not good - rebounding. For a long while, we either trailed in rebounds or only slightly ahead. But it wasn't the numbers that bothered me. Rather, our positioning, blocking out, and sensing the direction of the rebound was awful. We also actuallly lost some battles for rebounds despite our major height advantage. I don't know if it was a new mix of players or our players being sloppy in fundamentals, but it has to be corrected as we face better teams. I missed our good positioning from last year and Anna swooping in quickly and grabbing the rebound.

I agree with some of Card98 points, but he's dead wrong about teams double or triple teaming Haley and Brink - would love it if they did. Are you going to leave Jump open or give her space? You do and she will put up 20 in a hurry. Kiki proved last year that she can also take over on O and quickly. Whoever is the 5th starter - and I don't think it will be Emma - will also be a threat. I don't think there is anyone on the roster who can't and won't score. I think that this team has as much or more quality depth than any team - WBB or MBB - that I can recall. There just isn't mnuch dropoff through the depth chart. Just the opposite of what Card98 said - teams will not be able to use the strategy of taking out one or two of our players. We'll bury teams that try that.

I was very impressed with all the newcomers. Again, can't recall seeing all newcomers look so good, even Green the walk on. Sure it was a lesser opponent, but I was judging just from what I saw in terms of physical abilities and skills.

I liked that we made FTs - much better than last year.

Betts - better than expected, clear that she will eventually emerge as a star.
Harriel - really surprisingly good, Lepolo also looks very good, but Tara might have to re-think who starts at PG
Haley - will play some point, and we know Tara will experiment but I think the Haley at point experiment will end and either Lepolo or Harriel will start at PG with Haley at the 3 where she will be a point forward sometimes. It will always be Brink and another big as posts and won't matter whether you call them 4 or 5 as they will rotate high and low and other combos. I like Card 98's idea of Prechtel and Brink, Haley at the 3, Jump and either Lepolo or Harriel. What's good about that lineup is that they all can move to various spots on the floor and potentially score or pass and really mess up defenses. And then Tara can bring off a number of players off the bench who bring a varietry of skills. ALso like th combo of Iriafen and Belebi/Betts.

Hardest job for Tara this year is figuring out who plays, when, with who else, and how many minutes. I hope that the players develop int obeing "instant" - get so used to frequent rotations and coming off the bench that it's like everybody reacts like a starter and is ready to go, yet doesn;t mind having to get subbed out;

It's better to play man to man D for purposes of more intensity, putting pressure on opponent, and getting your players engaged. But I would like to see us go zone maybe 25% of the time. We have the right formula for zone of tall, long players who are quick enough to move. Would also help stop quick slashing opponents.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - CompSci87 - 11-03-2022

I think it's a mistake to conclude that Lepolo is a reluctant shooter after one exhibition game against an overmatched opponent in which she went 0-2 with 6 assists.

We haven't seen much of her game yet, but we saw her shoot with no reluctance in the open practice, and with success. Check her high school and club highlights, and you'll see her shoot there.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - 81alum - 11-04-2022

(11-03-2022, 11:51 PM)treetop11 Wrote: Nobody has touched on one thing I saw last night that was not good - rebounding. For a long while, we either trailed in rebounds or only slightly ahead. But it wasn't the numbers that bothered me. Rather, our positioning, blocking out, and sensing the direction of the rebound was awful. We also actuallly lost some battles for rebounds despite our major height advantage. I don't know if it was a new mix of players or our players being sloppy in fundamentals, but it has to be corrected as we face better teams. I missed our good positioning from last year and Anna swooping in quickly and grabbing the rebound.

Thanks for bringing this up. This is a concern, especially since Tara made a point in her preseason interviews to stress rebounding (and running) as the keys to success for this year's team.

(11-03-2022, 11:51 PM)treetop11 Wrote: It's better to play man to man D for purposes of more intensity, putting pressure on opponent, and getting your players engaged. But I would like to see us go zone maybe 25% of the time. We have the right formula for zone of tall, long players who are quick enough to move. Would also help stop quick slashing opponents.

I've been thinking this too. We have tall and reasonably quick players--perfect for the zone. It might make it easier to get Bosgana on the floor in a zone, for example.

(11-03-2022, 11:52 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: I think it's a mistake to conclude that Lepolo is a reluctant shooter after one exhibition game against an overmatched opponent in which she went 0-2 with 6 assists.

We haven't seen much of her game yet, but we saw her shoot with no reluctance in the open practice, and with success. Check her high school and club highlights, and you'll see her shoot there.

Entirely agree. I think some of us fans were traumatized by the experience of having such a terrific passer who was so incredibly reluctant to score, and we can't help view new players through the smoky lens of the past.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - Hurlburt88 - 11-04-2022

Fun to watch the feed--thanks for posting

overall, an abundance of riches for sure. the one thing I really don't see being replaced, at least directly, is the lightning lateral and loose-ball (also long rebound) quickness of Anna.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - WBB fan - 11-04-2022

(11-03-2022, 05:58 PM)amytmueller Wrote:
(11-02-2022, 08:48 PM)WBB fan Wrote: I would have been there had the ticket problems not been an issue. But the livestream worked reasonably well. Overall, very impressed after that slow start -- great to see everyone contribute. Betts is going to be really good, very few minutes in this game, but when she was in, clearly had an impact. The most exciting thing from her for me was that mid-range jumper. If she can do that as well as closer in, she's going to be a nightmare to defend. Kiki, great, and Lepolo definitly is going to be a real contributor at pg. Good things to think about for everyone!

If you had problems downloading tickets on your Android device, they just updated the app in the Google Play Store today which fixes the problem, so update your app!

The app wasn't the problem, a long story of woe involving the GoStanford.com link and other things.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - OCcardinal - 11-04-2022

(11-03-2022, 11:52 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: I think it's a mistake to conclude that Lepolo is a reluctant shooter after one exhibition game against an overmatched opponent in which she went 0-2 with 6 assists.

Agree, some of it seemed less reluctance and more just good decision-making. Like here - Lepolo could have taken a quick shot, but how can you not pass to a wide open Hannah Jump on the wing?
[Image: i-HsC4HB8-M.gif]

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - M T - 11-04-2022

(11-04-2022, 09:44 AM)OCcardinal Wrote: Agree, some of it seemed less reluctance and more just good decision-making. Like here - Lepolo could have taken a quick shot, but how can you not pass to a wide open Hannah Jump on the wing?

I appreciate the clip. Can you tell us how you made the clip, and then posted it? That's a great way for us to highlight things.
(While youtube has an easy way to start a video at a point, to my knowledge, they don't have a way to set an endpoint (and then no way to make it loop). I wish they did)

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - OCcardinal - 11-04-2022

(11-04-2022, 11:02 AM)M T Wrote: I appreciate the clip. Can you tell us how you made the clip, and then posted it? That's a great way for us to highlight things.
(While youtube has an easy way to start a video at a point, to my knowledge, they don't have a way to set an endpoint (and then no way to make it loop). I wish they did)

Thanks. It wasn't easy to figure out. :) Here's what I did.
1) Downloaded the YouTube video CompSci87 posted earlier (using ssyoutube.com, though other sites can do that too)
2) Selected the clip and converted it to a GIF (using Movavi Video Converter Premium, one of many programs that can do this)
3) Uploaded the clip to my SmugMug account (any online photo account would work I presume)
4) Clicked the button above that allows you to insert an image and pasted the link to my GIF.
For fun, here's a GIF of all of Betts' shots in the game, including the one where she was fouled: [Image: i-W6Qsh6j-M.gif]

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - TheWildJacko - 11-05-2022

(11-04-2022, 11:22 AM)OCcardinal Wrote:
(11-04-2022, 11:02 AM)M T Wrote: I appreciate the clip. Can you tell us how you made the clip, and then posted it? That's a great way for us to highlight things.
(While youtube has an easy way to start a video at a point, to my knowledge, they don't have a way to set an endpoint (and then no way to make it loop). I wish they did)
Thanks. It wasn't easy to figure out. :) Here's what I did.
1) Downloaded the YouTube video CompSci87 posted earlier (using ssyoutube.com, though other sites can do that too)
2) Selected the clip and converted it to a GIF (using Movavi Video Converter Premium, one of many programs that can do this)
3) Uploaded the clip to my SmugMug account (any online photo account would work I presume)
4) Clicked the button above that allows you to insert an image and pasted the link to my GIF.
For fun, here's a GIF of all of Betts' shots in the game, including the one where she was fouled:

That is indeed fun, thanks!

For consideration re: Lepolo getting inverted:

Temeka Johnson (LSU) is 5'3"
Crystal Dangerfield (UCONN) is 5'5"
Moriah Jefferson (UCONN) is 5'6"
Jordin Canada (UCLA) is 5'6"
Aari McDonald (AZ) is 5'7"
Kristi Toliver (MD) is 5'7"

All are current or former WNBA players with multiple-season careers; some would be considered WNBA stars.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - WBB fan - 11-05-2022

(11-05-2022, 03:13 PM)TheWildJacko Wrote:
(11-04-2022, 11:22 AM)OCcardinal Wrote:
(11-04-2022, 11:02 AM)M T Wrote: I appreciate the clip. Can you tell us how you made the clip, and then posted it? That's a great way for us to highlight things.
(While youtube has an easy way to start a video at a point, to my knowledge, they don't have a way to set an endpoint (and then no way to make it loop). I wish they did)
Thanks. It wasn't easy to figure out. :) Here's what I did.
1) Downloaded the YouTube video CompSci87 posted earlier (using ssyoutube.com, though other sites can do that too)
2) Selected the clip and converted it to a GIF (using Movavi Video Converter Premium, one of many programs that can do this)
3) Uploaded the clip to my SmugMug account (any online photo account would work I presume)
4) Clicked the button above that allows you to insert an image and pasted the link to my GIF.
For fun, here's a GIF of all of Betts' shots in the game, including the one where she was fouled:

That is indeed fun, thanks!

For consideration re: Lepolo getting inverted:

Temeka Johnson (LSU) is 5'3"
Crystal Dangerfield (UCONN) is 5'5"
Moriah Jefferson (UCONN) is 5'6"
Jordin Canada (UCLA) is 5'6"
Aari McDonald (AZ) is 5'7"
Kristi Toliver (MD) is 5'7"

All are current or former WNBA players with multiple-season careers; some would be considered WNBA stars.

Closerr to home, Stanford stars -- Jamila Wideman (5' 6"), one of the best point guards that Stanford has ever had. And Susan King B. who was also 5' 6", I believe.

And don't forget Becky Hammon (5'6") and Courtney Vandersloot (5'8") -- definitely WNBA stars

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - lex24 - 11-05-2022

Vanguard? Seriously.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - 81alum - 11-05-2022

(11-05-2022, 04:50 PM)lex24 Wrote: Vanguard? Seriously.

Not sure what you mean by this. All major teams schedule mismatches in their exhibition games. My theory is Vanguard was chosen because of their coach, who is the club coach of our top recruiting prospect, Juju Watkins. This same coach has coached half a dozen former Stanford players when they played for his club team.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - CompSci87 - 11-05-2022

Vanguard won the NAIA national championship in a past year. They are normally a pretty good opponent for an exhibition game. This year seems to be a down year for them

For comparison, UConn played an exhibition against Kutztown State this year. Whatstown State? But really, it's standard to start out with an exhibition against a lower division team that would love the experience of playing against a Division I opponent.

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - BobK - 11-05-2022

Hey Lex , my friend, cal beat Vanguard by 22

RE: WBB: Stanford 102 -- Vanguard 25 - ca245 - 11-05-2022

Not surprising that we played an exhibition game against Vanguard. We play them about every other year, though less recently (2022, 2018, 2014, 2008-2012).
Not surprising either that it was a mismatch; these games are by definition mismatches. It’s just that this year the mismatch was more extreme, possibly a combination of us being up and they being down.