WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - Printable Version

WBB: USC 55 Stanford 46 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - martyup - 01-15-2023

This was a much needed loss. This team has much more talent than they are exhibiting in their recent games. They need to decide if they want to win a NC or not. Too much standing around on offense waiting for someone else to make something happen.

Tara will need to dig deep in her pool of experience to figure out how to get our offense sorted out. We have the talent, but they are not playing up to their potential.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - mbdude - 01-15-2023

Brink, jones and jump 6 of 32

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - BostonCard - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 04:59 PM)mbdude Wrote: Brink, jones and jump 6 of 32

And 0/10 from three. Tough to win when your three best players all have a bad night.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - M T - 01-15-2023

No root canal today. This was a rotting tooth that fell out.

Why didn't Stanford use the timeouts on the last 2 possessions to advance the ball?

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - BosCard - 01-15-2023

For everyone who thinks our starting lineup is working so well. I would say 4 points in the first quarter isn't a great way to start a game.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - mbdude - 01-15-2023

Why not put Ashten in earlier. Pretty tough on her when she comes in with a minute left and the other team knows why. Not sure why she's getting so few minutes

Starting lineup needs another outside shooter. With jump guarded that leaves only lepolo really. Or at least give up on Brink on wing

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - PVTree - 01-15-2023

As of late, I have not seen this team have a reliable mid range+ shooter, except for Jump. Jones and Brink are not long range shooters.

Our weakness had been exposed. Double team brink inside, blanket jump, funny allow Jones to drive, and or offense is in turmoil.

Tara needs to figure out the antidote to this ailment to have a chance at the championship.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - crackpot - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 05:02 PM)M T Wrote: No root canal today. This was a rotting tooth that fell out.

Why didn't Stanford use the timeouts on the last 2 possessions to advance the ball?

Right??!!

It's as if all the brains were left at the hotel. Down by 9, all the 3 point shooters in, 43 seconds to go and Haley goes for (and misses) a layup.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - 81alum - 01-15-2023

This was the worst offensive game I have seen from us in a long time. At ASU in 2016 we had a 31-49 loss, and yes that one was worse. CTT knew how to create the most frustrating defenses in her day.

My heart isn't into breaking down these stats. But the story is the same as it has been the last couple games--each team perfects the defensive game plan and passes it on to the next. Put 4 players close in, perhaps even 3 in the paint, and you make it impossible for Jones to drive or Brink to operate. Put your best perimeter defender on Jump. Then let everyone else try jumpshots until they can prove they can put them in.

We started the year as a very good three point shooting team. But we have lost that focus. Jump shot an air ball today. Even when open, Jump is missing.

USC is not a great three point shooting team, and they shot 42% and made 8 of them. That was supposedly our forte, and we were 4/21. This is the third consecutive game of relatively poor shooting.

We did look tired, many shots were short.

23 to 9 fouls is a bit deceptive, since we were intentionally fouling at the end. But officiating makes a difference.

Part of the problem is the scheme--Tara has not perfected a strategy for punishing the sag-and-1 defense.

But part of the problem is pure shooting. Our shooters are missing open shots as well as contested shots. Shooting is contagious and we are infected with a miss-virus.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - BosCard - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 05:09 PM)PVTree Wrote: As of late, I have not seen this team have a reliable mid range+ shooter, except for Jump. Jones and Brink are not long range shooters.

Our weakness had been exposed. Double team brink inside, blanket jump, funny allow Jones to drive, and or offense is in turmoil.

Tara needs to figure out the antidote to this ailment to have a chance at the championship.

Iriafen is a very good player but she plays the exact same position as Brink and Jones. Trying to pretend that Brink and Jones can hit 3's isn't fooling anyone. Demetre or Prechtel should replace Iriafen in the starting lineup.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - 76lsjumb - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 05:09 PM)PVTree Wrote: As of late, I have not seen this team have a reliable mid range+ shooter, except for Jump. Jones and Brink are not long range shooters.

Our weakness had been exposed. Double team brink inside, blanket jump, funny allow Jones to drive, and or offense is in turmoil.

Tara needs to figure out the antidote to this ailment to have a chance at the championship.

I think a legitimate case could be made that Tara is the ailment…

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - BostonCard - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 05:06 PM)BosCard Wrote: For everyone who thinks our starting lineup is working so well. I would say 4 points in the first quarter isn't a great way to start a game.

A case could be made that Iriafen’s efficiency has declined in conference play after a hot out of conference start. Prechtel might offer another three point shooter, though our inside efficiency and rebounding might decline. Fran Belibi is another option, but I don’t think she gives us more outside shooting than Iriafen.

I would think that notwithstanding their struggles today, Brink, Jones, and Jump are as good a trio of starters as any in the conference, and taking Lepolo oust would likely mean Jones is our full-time point guard, which I think we want to avoid.

So if I were to tweet the starting lineup, I would probably bring in Prechtel for Iriafen, though I’m not sure it would have helped much today; Prechtel had one three on offense and that’s it.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - Softball Fan - 01-15-2023

Give USC credit.

They scouted Stanford well, prepared a good defensive scheme, and executed it well. Stanford's offense looked stagnant at times. IMO that was due in large part to a well coached, aggressive defense.

For the long term I would like to see Tara recruit a top-level, mid-range shooter. I recall Paige Bueckers hitting mid-range jump shots from everywhere on the court. It can break a team's defense. For the most part Stanford makes points from behind the 3 point arc or close to the basket with not much mid-range capability.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - TonyLima - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 04:58 PM)martyup Wrote: This was a much needed loss. This team has much more talent than they are exhibiting in their recent games. They need to decide if they want to win a NC or not. Too much standing around on offense waiting for someone else to make something happen.

Tara will need to dig deep in her pool of experience to figure out how to get our offense sorted out. We have the talent, but they are not playing up to their potential.

What Marty said. Albeit with tears in my eyes.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - chimera - 01-15-2023

This has been brewing for a while. Shooting has been poor for the past few games, even the UA win. USC did not score a lot, but I wouldn't say our defense was very good because we fouled them over and over. For context, I recall more than a few road trips to LA or elsewhere right around this time where the games were ugly and sometimes a loss or even two (#2 ranked 2008 team lost to both USC and UCLA around the same time of year I believe). So this is not unprecedented. It is disturbing for sure.

Rebounding was poor, too many turnovers, shooting was abysmal, and nobody off the bench really provided a lift on offense. I don't know why it is so hard to score. When Brink or Iriafen or whoever is down low, gets double and triple teamed, someone has to be open. We either do not find that person, the pass is not great and the defense recovers before a shot, or the shot is missed. When teams clog the lane like USC did, we have to do more than just chuck up shots. We also need someone besides Jump, who we can't get open lately, to hit threes. It's nice when Emma-Nnopu hits one or Demetre, but we need someone who hunts her shot and makes them more consistently.

Things that concern me in no particular order:

Our depth is somewhat illusory. Betts still hasn't shown that much against the better teams. We have plenty of post depth but she is a big part of the future there, and thus far, I'm not seeing what I thought I would from her. Nivar has good energy but fouls too much and doesn't get that much run yet. Bosgana has promising moments but is not consistent and also doesn't get much run. Demetre is playing a lot, which is good, but her shooting has not come around, and while her defense has improved a lot and she has helped there, she fouled way too much this game in situations where it would have been better to back off a bit. Emma-Nnopu has had some good moments but again, can't count on offense from her. Harriel hardly plays. Who is our bench energizer? Who comes in to give the team a lift and score? We have subs who help other ways but nobody at all is really coming into games and scoring. Our deep bench is not really so deep in that respect.

The offense has stagnated too often and not just in this game. Too much holding the ball. Too many late shot clocks. The offense doesn't flow, doesn't move the ball quickly or even very purposefully it seems. We don't get into the lane, draw defense, and work around that. We can't screen Jump open much.

turnovers are still a problem. In this game when we crept close, we often turned the ball over, and some of those were just hustle plays by USC where they tipped balls and stuff. We did not seem to really focus and be sharp with the ball.

Last but not least and maybe the crux of the problem - we can't shoot from distance. We are a poor shooting team lately. Who can shoot threes? Aside from Jump Lepolo is at around 40% and then we have Bosgana and Prechtel at about 35% (all stats from before this game so the last two go down a bit I think). So we have nobody who shoots many threes who shoots them well aside from Jump, and you just can't win games this day and age that way. Now how do we solve that?

Is this a bump in the road or a sign the team has a serious issue with shooting? Wish I knew.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - M T - 01-15-2023

Of those who played more than 10 minutes:
Demetre +7 in 22 min. (+12.7/40min)
Brink -2 in 35 min (-2.3/40min)
Jones -6 in 35 min (-6.9/40min)
Lepolo -7 in 25 min (-11.2/40min)
Jump -11 in 35 min (-12.5/40min)
Iriafen -4 in 12 min (-13.3/40min)
Emma-nnopu -9 in 17 min (-21.2/40min)

I am surprised Jones was as little negative as she was, and I'm surprised Lepolo was as negative as she was. That's probably an indication I was missing something.

Chimera, Stanford did outrebound USC, but not by much: 14OR+26DR vs 14OR+22DR

I thought Lepolo made 2 threes, but the stat sheet has here 1 of 1. I would like to see more plays where our bigs establish position (or is clear to rush the lane) and Lepolo shoots a 3. If we can get a rebound if she misses, great. If she hts it, even better.

I am less opposed to Brink's missed threes than others here. I consider it practice for the tournament. If she can find that shot, it will be a difference maker.

I have always thought highly of Jump. But if she & the team can't get her open and we are losing the 4-on-4 game, maybe we should change things. Maybe she can bring energy from off the bench. I'd guess one of the problems is that when she is in the corner, one player can guard her. If she spent more time out at the top of the arc, she may get more open shots (to the left, to the right, or stepping back)./

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - mbdude - 01-15-2023

In prechtels defense you come in at the end of the game and other team is aware of why you are in. At least she got open

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - TheFarm07 - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 05:19 PM)paloalto Wrote: For the long term I would like to see Tara recruit a top-level, mid-range shooter. I recall Paige Bueckers hitting mid-range jump shots from everywhere on the court. It can break a team's defense. For the most part Stanford makes points from behind the 3 point arc or close to the basket with not much mid-range capability.

We tried that in the last couple years -- Olivia Miles (15 ppg, 51.6% FG%) & Sonia Citron (14.3 ppg, 53.4%) both at Notre Dame now, Kiki Rice (12.4 ppg, 46.5% FG%) and then with the last recruiting class, big misses with JuJu Watkins and Hannah Hidalgo.

Tremendous recruiting losses made more apparent with how our offense has been stymied in these last few games. With the exception of Kiana, elite scoring guards (and I'm not just talking about three point threats - as good as Jump is from long range, you can see how one-dimensional a good defensive scheme can make her, but those who can hit midrange jumpers and drive to the basket) have not wanted to come to Stanford for one reason or another.

(01-15-2023, 05:33 PM)chimera Wrote: This has been brewing for a while. Shooting has been poor for the past few games, even the UA win. USC did not score a lot, but I wouldn't say our defense was very good because we fouled them over and over. For context, I recall more than a few road trips to LA or elsewhere right around this time where the games were ugly and sometimes a loss or even two (#2 ranked 2008 team lost to both USC and UCLA around the same time of year I believe). So this is not unprecedented. It is disturbing for sure.

Rebounding was poor, too many turnovers, shooting was abysmal, and nobody off the bench really provided a lift on offense. I don't know why it is so hard to score. When Brink or Iriafen or whoever is down low, gets double and triple teamed, someone has to be open. We either do not find that person, the pass is not great and the defense recovers before a shot, or the shot is missed. When teams clog the lane like USC did, we have to do more than just chuck up shots. We also need someone besides Jump, who we can't get open lately, to hit threes. It's nice when Emma-Nnopu hits one or Demetre, but we need someone who hunts her shot and makes them more consistently.

Things that concern me in no particular order:

Our depth is somewhat illusory. Betts still hasn't shown that much against the better teams. We have plenty of post depth but she is a big part of the future there, and thus far, I'm not seeing what I thought I would from her. Nivar has good energy but fouls too much and doesn't get that much run yet. Bosgana has promising moments but is not consistent and also doesn't get much run. Demetre is playing a lot, which is good, but her shooting has not come around, and while her defense has improved a lot and she has helped there, she fouled way too much this game in situations where it would have been better to back off a bit. Emma-Nnopu has had some good moments but again, can't count on offense from her. Harriel hardly plays. Who is our bench energizer? Who comes in to give the team a lift and score? We have subs who help other ways but nobody at all is really coming into games and scoring. Our deep bench is not really so deep in that respect.

The offense has stagnated too often and not just in this game. Too much holding the ball. Too many late shot clocks. The offense doesn't flow, doesn't move the ball quickly or even very purposefully it seems. We don't get into the lane, draw defense, and work around that. We can't screen Jump open much.

turnovers are still a problem. In this game when we crept close, we often turned the ball over, and some of those were just hustle plays by USC where they tipped balls and stuff. We did not seem to really focus and be sharp with the ball.

Last but not least and maybe the crux of the problem - we can't shoot from distance. We are a poor shooting team lately. Who can shoot threes? Aside from Jump Lepolo is at around 40% and then we have Bosgana and Prechtel at about 35% (all stats from before this game so the last two go down a bit I think). So we have nobody who shoots many threes who shoots them well aside from Jump, and you just can't win games this day and age that way. Now how do we solve that?

Is this a bump in the road or a sign the team has a serious issue with shooting? Wish I knew.

+1000 on this post. You hit the points exactly. Our vaunted depth that we (including me) have been crowing about seems like an illusion. Our bench has not provided us any help lately.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - chimera - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 05:34 PM)M T Wrote: Of those who played more than 10 minutes:
Demetre +7 in 22 min. (+12.7/40min)
Brink -2 in 35 min (-2.3/40min)
Jones -6 in 35 min (-6.9/40min)
Lepolo -7 in 25 min (-11.2/40min)
Jump -11 in 35 min (-12.5/40min)
Iriafen -4 in 12 min (-13.3/40min)
Emma-nnopu -9 in 17 min (-21.2/40min)

I am surprised Jones was as little negative as she was, and I'm surprised Lepolo was as negative as she was. That's probably an indication I was missing something.

Chimera, Stanford did outrebound USC, but not by much: 14OR+26DR vs 14OR+22DR

True on the rebounds, but I recall way too many times USC got a rebound I thought we should have snagged. I don't think taking Lepolo out was an answer late. She was I think the only person who had a good shooting percentage. Should have asked her to shoot more, not taken her out. Utah doesn't defend like USC but CO does so we shall see pretty quickly if this was a blip or a trend.

RE: WBB: Stanford @ USC Sunday 2pm - Softball Fan - 01-15-2023

(01-15-2023, 05:33 PM)chimera Wrote: Things that concern me in no particular order:

Betts still hasn't shown that much against the better teams. We have plenty of post depth but she is a big part of the future there, and thus far, I'm not seeing what I thought I would from her.

I agree with all your points. I will add this about Betts which most fans will probably take objection. I don't feel Betts is ready yet for the speed of top level DI college BB. I would give her plenty of playing time in games where there is no doubt about the outcome.

I believe next year will be Betts' year largely because she will have time to grow into her body and be better able to handle the speed of good opponents. Junior and senior year I look forward to some domination by her in the post.