Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread - Printable Version
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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 10:28 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants ain't gonna beat the Rockies scoring the 2.1 runs/game they are averaging over their last 9. The Rockies are averaging double that amount over the same span.
How the hell did they only score 2 runs with all the performances Mick listed?
Bats are cold right now. It happens. Giants overall are 9th in MLB in runs. Top third.
Whether that remains the case is anyones guess. Estrada being out for 3xtended period hurts. As does Haniger, who is past performance is a guide, eventually would have hit. They’ve had a ton of leg injuries. Slater has essentially been hurt all year, can’t run (which is part of his game). Yaz, Conforto, Wade all banged up.
Pederson hasn’t been same since getting hit on hand.
Getting at least quasi- healthy is key. The AS break should help.
But I continue to maintain that they will go a# far as their pitching takes them.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 10:28 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants ain't gonna beat the Rockies scoring the 2.1 runs/game they are averaging over their last 9. The Rockies are averaging double that amount over the same span.
How the hell did they only score 2 runs with all the performances Mick listed?
They will feast on Rockies pitching. Of the 30 teams in MLB, the Rockies have the second worst runs allowed per game, the worst WHIP, have given up the most home runs and have the second worst ERA. I'm guessing the Giants will score a bit more than 2.1 runs per game against the Rockies.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 01:04 PM)Mick Wrote:(07-06-2023, 10:28 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants ain't gonna beat the Rockies scoring the 2.1 runs/game they are averaging over their last 9. The Rockies are averaging double that amount over the same span.
How the hell did they only score 2 runs with all the performances Mick listed?
They will feast on Rockies pitching. Of the 30 teams in MLB, the Rockies have the second worst runs allowed per game, the worst WHIP, have given up the most home runs and have the second worst ERA. I'm guessing the Giants will score a bit more than 2.1 runs per game against the Rockies.
Hopefully. They’ve had the worst offense in NL last 2 weeks.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-08-2023
AS break can’t happen soon enough.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-08-2023
Heliot Ramos in July (2 SJ, 5 Sac):
H-AB: 16-29
Avg.: .551
OBP: .594
SLG: 1.241
OPS: 1.835
RBI: 14
HR: 4
RS: 8
Can he possibly do even half this with the Giants?
Kyle Harrison has a hamstring injury. Might explain his poor outings before being sidelined, but probably won't see him until August.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-08-2023
Baseball's major league draft starts tomorrow. The first amateur draft was in 1965. The MLB draft had been as high as 95 rounds in the late 1990s, but had fallen to 40 rounds, and was reduced from 40 rounds down to 20 rounds in 2023. This is, in part, because there are fewer minor league teams, so fewer players needed. There used to be 7-10 minor league teams for every MLB franchise, now 7 is the max, and only two teams have seven (Giants were one of the two). 40 minor league teams lost their MLB affiliations or were demoted.
The lowest-drafted player who ever made the major leagues was Clay Condrey, selected by the Yankees in the 94th round of the 1996 MLB June Draft. He pitched in six seasons, with an overall record of 18-12 and a 4.10 ERA, so...not too shabby. BTW, most MLB teams stopped drafting after the 50th round that year. The Yankees drafted in all rounds.
So now we're down to 20 rounds. Some very good SF Giants players were drafted after the 20th round, including:
Travis Ishikawa, Dan Otero, Steve Decker (21), Ron Bryant (24), Brian Wilson, Ed Halicki (24), Jonathan Sanchez (27), Sergio Romo (28), Marvin Benard (50).
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 07-08-2023
Trivia again. The first player ever drafted was Rick Monday
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-08-2023
(07-08-2023, 09:35 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Heliot Ramos in July (2 SJ, 5 Sac):
H-AB: 16-29
Avg.: .551
OBP: .594
SLG: 1.241
OPS: 1.835
RBI: 14
HR: 4
RS: 8
Can he possibly do even half this with the Giants?
Kyle Harrison has a hamstring injury. Might explain his poor outings before being sidelined, but probably won't see him until August.
Harrison was injured working out after his last start. It is a moderate pull. Perhaps he will be called up in September when once the rosters are expanded.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 07-08-2023
With the draft starting tomorrow it’s possible Tommy Troy could go to the Giants
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-08-2023
(07-08-2023, 11:27 AM)Giants Wrote:(07-08-2023, 09:35 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Heliot Ramos in July (2 SJ, 5 Sac):
H-AB: 16-29
Avg.: .551
OBP: .594
SLG: 1.241
OPS: 1.835
RBI: 14
HR: 4
RS: 8
Can he possibly do even half this with the Giants?
Kyle Harrison has a hamstring injury. Might explain his poor outings before being sidelined, but probably won't see him until August.
Harrison was injured working out after his last start. It is a moderate pull. Perhaps he will be called up in September when once the rosters are expanded.
Apparently, they were planning to call him up to get a look prior to the deadline. Now that won’t happen. My guess is he’s not up this year.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-10-2023
Giants again draft a “two-way” player in 1st round. 6’7 230 pound RHP/1B. Bryce Eldridge from James Madison HS in Virginia He looks 25. Had committed to Alabama, but will sign with Giants. Reggie Crawford was 1st round pick in ‘22. He had TJ and sat out ‘22. He is a LHP that is also DHing once a week.
My guess is that if either make it to the Big Club it will be as either a pitcher or everyday player. There aren’t many Ohtanis. Also, you pretty much are limited th DHing if also pitching
Still, interesting strategy.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-10-2023
If the Giants could simply repeat 2008, I think we would be rather pleased…
https://www.mlb.com/news/2008-mlb-draft-do-over-c279247834
Regardless, it will be fun to follow these guys as they move along the road to the bigs.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-10-2023
(07-10-2023, 10:50 AM)Giants Wrote: If the Giants could simply repeat 2008, I think we would be rather pleased…
https://www.mlb.com/news/2008-mlb-draft-do-over-c279247834
Regardless, it will be fun to follow these guys as they move along the road to the bigs.
I remember the Posey countdown. Giants played it close.
Elly De La Cruz. If MLB had any imagination they’d figure a way to get him in AS game. Sure, only 134 PAs. But he’s electrifying. Currently the most exciting player in baseball. He’s hit for a cycle. Stolen 16 bases (including second, third and home on one trek) has a 450 HR and has beaten out routine grounders (including 2 to first base). He has elite power and can fly.
Baseball has, for sometime, talked about the need to get more athletic. De La Cruz is exactly what they are hoping to attract. If he were in the NBA, they’d already be promoting him like mad. MLB. Nah.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-10-2023
(07-10-2023, 02:51 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-10-2023, 10:50 AM)Giants Wrote: If the Giants could simply repeat 2008, I think we would be rather pleased…
https://www.mlb.com/news/2008-mlb-draft-do-over-c279247834
Regardless, it will be fun to follow these guys as they move along the road to the bigs.
I remember the Posey countdown. Giants played it close.
Elly De La Cruz. If MLB had any imagination they’d figure a way to get him in AS game. Sure, only 134 PAs. But he’s electrifying. Currently the most exciting player in baseball. He’s hit for a cycle. Stolen 16 bases (including second, third and home on one trek) has a 450 HR and has beaten out routine grounders (including 2 to first base). He has elite power and can fly.
Baseball has, for sometime, talked about the need to get more athletic. De La Cruz is exactly what they are hoping to attract. If he were in the NBA, they’d already be promoting him like mad. MLB. Nah.
I agree. I’m looking to watching him play v. SF next week.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-14-2023
(07-10-2023, 02:59 PM)Giants Wrote:(07-10-2023, 02:51 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-10-2023, 10:50 AM)Giants Wrote: If the Giants could simply repeat 2008, I think we would be rather pleased…
https://www.mlb.com/news/2008-mlb-draft-do-over-c279247834
Regardless, it will be fun to follow these guys as they move along the road to the bigs.
I remember the Posey countdown. Giants played it close.
Elly De La Cruz. If MLB had any imagination they’d figure a way to get him in AS game. Sure, only 134 PAs. But he’s electrifying. Currently the most exciting player in baseball. He’s hit for a cycle. Stolen 16 bases (including second, third and home on one trek) has a 450 HR and has beaten out routine grounders (including 2 to first base). He has elite power and can fly.
Baseball has, for sometime, talked about the need to get more athletic. De La Cruz is exactly what they are hoping to attract. If he were in the NBA, they’d already be promoting him like mad. MLB. Nah.
I agree. I’m looking to watching him play v. SF next week.
Post AS starts with long hot steamy cities swing - 3 in Pitt. 4 in Cincy 3 in Wash and make up game in Detroit. With exception of Cincy, not good teams. But this will be a big test. After which comes the Deadline. Which is going to be interesting.
Ohtani the big question. Angels one game under. 5 back of last WC (Astros/Blue Jays) with 3 other teams also ahead of them. (Yankees, Red Sox, Mariners). Trout out a few weeks with hamate injury . Their odds of making playoffs are slim and none. And Slim has one foot out the door. Moreno is in a tough position. But unless Angels get hot between now and about July 27, I don’t see how he can keep Ohtani. Never has there been as valuable a trade asset. If he keeps him and the Angels miss the playoffs, Ohtani is gone.
So, I think Moreno has two choices. Aggressively buy. Go all out to try to make playoffs, understanding that’s the only hope to keep him. Extremely unlikely. The much more likely option, trade him.
To stand pat, miss playoffs and lose him in the offseason is, imo, gross negligence. A compensation pick for Ohtani?!
Personally, I’d trade him. The return will be humongous. For the team that gets him - the advantage of a two month sales job. But a very tough call in that end as well. You risk losing multiple prospects to get a rental. From Giants perspective, I think it would take a package along the lines of Harrison, Luciano, Schmitt, Winn and Reggie Crawford. And that might not be enough.
Only way you even think about doing that is if you have tremendous confidence that you can sign him. Like Dodgers did with Mookie.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-14-2023
(07-14-2023, 09:06 AM)lex24 Wrote:(07-10-2023, 02:59 PM)Giants Wrote:(07-10-2023, 02:51 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-10-2023, 10:50 AM)Giants Wrote: If the Giants could simply repeat 2008, I think we would be rather pleased…
https://www.mlb.com/news/2008-mlb-draft-do-over-c279247834
Regardless, it will be fun to follow these guys as they move along the road to the bigs.
I remember the Posey countdown. Giants played it close.
Elly De La Cruz. If MLB had any imagination they’d figure a way to get him in AS game. Sure, only 134 PAs. But he’s electrifying. Currently the most exciting player in baseball. He’s hit for a cycle. Stolen 16 bases (including second, third and home on one trek) has a 450 HR and has beaten out routine grounders (including 2 to first base). He has elite power and can fly.
Baseball has, for sometime, talked about the need to get more athletic. De La Cruz is exactly what they are hoping to attract. If he were in the NBA, they’d already be promoting him like mad. MLB. Nah.
I agree. I’m looking to watching him play v. SF next week.
Post AS starts with long hot steamy cities swing - 3 in Pitt. 4 in Cincy 3 in Wash and make up game in Detroit. With exception of Cincy, not good teams. But this will be a big test. After which comes the Deadline. Which is going to be interesting.
Ohtani the big question. Angels one game under. 5 back of last WC (Astros/Blue Jays) with 3 other teams also ahead of them. (Yankees, Red Sox, Mariners). Trout out a few weeks with hamate injury . Their odds of making playoffs are slim and none. And Slim has one foot out the door. Moreno is in a tough position. But unless Angels get hot between now and about July 27, I don’t see how he can keep Ohtani. Never has there been as valuable a trade asset. If he keeps him and the Angels miss the playoffs, Ohtani is gone.
So, I think Moreno has two choices. Aggressively buy. Go all out to try to make playoffs, understanding that’s the only hope to keep him. Extremely unlikely. The much more likely option, trade him.
To stand pat, miss playoffs and lose him in the offseason is, imo, gross negligence. A compensation pick for Ohtani?!
Personally, I’d trade him. The return will be humongous. For the team that gets him - the advantage of a two month sales job. But a very tough call in that end as well. You risk losing multiple prospects to get a rental. From Giants perspective, I think it would take a package along the lines of Harrison, Luciano, Schmitt, Winn and Reggie Crawford. And that might not be enough.
Only way you even think about doing that is if you have tremendous confidence that you can sign him. Like Dodgers did with Mookie.
I like that idea, a lot. I imagine the Angels' GM is in a bit of a quandary...no way they make the playoffs OR keep Ohtani. Best they can do is get a load of draft picks in exchange. And then the Giants can do a 2.5 month sell job on Ohtani to keep him.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-14-2023
Quite the quandary…..
First, should the Angels trade him? Given their current situation, yes.
Should the Giants gut their system in order to acquire him? My opinion, no.
Why? There is no guarantee he would sign a long term deal. The risk is too great, particularly since the Giants are on the cusp of finally putting all the pieces in place to contend on a regular basis. I think striping the farm system for one player (even a guy as great as Ohtani) would leave the Giants in a Bonds-like situation - a superstar-driven team that is lacking enough supporting talent to compete at the highest level.
Instead, go all in after the season is over. The Giants are in a position to truly sell a player like Ohtani on the future and his place in the organization.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-14-2023
(07-14-2023, 10:18 AM)Giants Wrote: Quite the quandary…..
First, should the Angels trade him? Given their current situation, yes.
Should the Giants gut their system in order to acquire him? My opinion, no.
Why? There is no guarantee he would sign a long term deal. The risk is too great, particularly since the Giants are on the cusp of finally putting all the pieces in place to contend on a regular basis. I think striping the farm system for one player (even a guy as great as Ohtani) would leave the Giants in a Bonds-like situation - a superstar-driven team that is lacking enough supporting talent to compete at the highest level.
Instead, go all in after the season is over. The Giants are in a position to truly sell a player like Ohtani on the future and his place in the organization.
Obviously a legit take.
Three comments: First, you aren’t stripping the farm system if you deal Harrison, Luciano, Schmitt, Winn and Reggie Crawford. There is plenty left. And you are keeping Bailey and Matos. Who right now are probably the No.1 and 2 prospects. That’s one reason you build depth.
Second, you are essentially trading for two players. Both in the top 3 of pitchers are hitters.
Third, how confident are you of your organizations ability to sell itself if a player gets a 2 1/2 month test? Especially if you feel that adding Ohtani can make up you a WS favorite. (And it might. Ohtani, Webb and Cobb is a terrific top end.) Alex Cobb alluded to this recently.
My guess is he will never be a Giant. And honestly, I see both sides of the trade issue. Without knowing exactly the cost, it’s hard to make a couch potato decision.
But it’s a fun discussion….
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-14-2023
(07-14-2023, 02:22 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-14-2023, 10:18 AM)Giants Wrote: Quite the quandary…..
First, should the Angels trade him? Given their current situation, yes.
Should the Giants gut their system in order to acquire him? My opinion, no.
Why? There is no guarantee he would sign a long term deal. The risk is too great, particularly since the Giants are on the cusp of finally putting all the pieces in place to contend on a regular basis. I think striping the farm system for one player (even a guy as great as Ohtani) would leave the Giants in a Bonds-like situation - a superstar-driven team that is lacking enough supporting talent to compete at the highest level.
Instead, go all in after the season is over. The Giants are in a position to truly sell a player like Ohtani on the future and his place in the organization.
Obviously a legit take.
Three comments: First, you aren’t stripping the farm system if you deal Harrison, Luciano, Schmitt, Winn and Reggie Crawford. There is plenty left. And you are keeping Bailey and Matos. Who right now are probably the No.1 and 2 prospects. That’s one reason you build depth.
Second, you are essentially trading for two players. Both in the top 3 of pitchers are hitters.
Third, how confident are you of your organizations ability to sell itself if a player gets a 2 1/2 month test? Especially if you feel that adding Ohtani can make up you a WS favorite. (And it might. Ohtani, Webb and Cobb is a terrific top end.) Alex Cobb alluded to this recently.
My guess is he will never be a Giant. And honestly, I see both sides of the trade issue. Without knowing exactly the cost, it’s hard to make a couch potato decision.
But it’s a fun discussion….
Speaking of fun discussion, how about Harrison, Luciano and Whisenhunt for Ohtani. That is one proposal that is floating around.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-15-2023
Few teams would trade for Ohtani absent his commitment to sign a longterm deal with that team. This will drive down what the Angels can get for him in a rental situation.
There are no "sign and trades" in MLB like the NBA, but I imagine something similar could effectively happen. I don't know the rules on MLB player contracts, but it seems a contract can be fashioned as part of a trade deal that would keep Ohtani off the open market after being traded to the team that takes him. Ohtani would of course have to agree to be traded to the team orchestrating this move and accept their contract terms, but when there is a will there is a way.
The Angels would have a big incentive to try facilitating such a deal, because they would increase their trade return if they did. If Ohtani, the Angels, and the acquiring team wanted this, they would find a way to make it happen.
I have seen people on ESPN and MLB Network suggest the Giants are a possible landing spot for Ohtani. One even said selling Ohtani on hitting balls in McCovey Cove might have appeal to him.
I'm sure the sports news business and social mediasphere will refrain from speculating on this topic over the next week, and only report things that are really happening...