Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread - Printable Version
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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-15-2023
(07-14-2023, 08:54 PM)Giants Wrote:(07-14-2023, 02:22 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-14-2023, 10:18 AM)Giants Wrote: Quite the quandary…..
First, should the Angels trade him? Given their current situation, yes.
Should the Giants gut their system in order to acquire him? My opinion, no.
Why? There is no guarantee he would sign a long term deal. The risk is too great, particularly since the Giants are on the cusp of finally putting all the pieces in place to contend on a regular basis. I think striping the farm system for one player (even a guy as great as Ohtani) would leave the Giants in a Bonds-like situation - a superstar-driven team that is lacking enough supporting talent to compete at the highest level.
Instead, go all in after the season is over. The Giants are in a position to truly sell a player like Ohtani on the future and his place in the organization.
Obviously a legit take.
Three comments: First, you aren’t stripping the farm system if you deal Harrison, Luciano, Schmitt, Winn and Reggie Crawford. There is plenty left. And you are keeping Bailey and Matos. Who right now are probably the No.1 and 2 prospects. That’s one reason you build depth.
Second, you are essentially trading for two players. Both in the top 3 of pitchers are hitters.
Third, how confident are you of your organizations ability to sell itself if a player gets a 2 1/2 month test? Especially if you feel that adding Ohtani can make up you a WS favorite. (And it might. Ohtani, Webb and Cobb is a terrific top end.) Alex Cobb alluded to this recently.
My guess is he will never be a Giant. And honestly, I see both sides of the trade issue. Without knowing exactly the cost, it’s hard to make a couch potato decision.
But it’s a fun discussion….
Speaking of fun discussion, how about Harrison, Luciano and Whisenhunt for Ohtani. That is one proposal that is floating around.
Doubt that would be enough.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-15-2023
(07-14-2023, 08:54 PM)Giants Wrote:(07-14-2023, 02:22 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-14-2023, 10:18 AM)Giants Wrote: Quite the quandary…..
First, should the Angels trade him? Given their current situation, yes.
Should the Giants gut their system in order to acquire him? My opinion, no.
Why? There is no guarantee he would sign a long term deal. The risk is too great, particularly since the Giants are on the cusp of finally putting all the pieces in place to contend on a regular basis. I think striping the farm system for one player (even a guy as great as Ohtani) would leave the Giants in a Bonds-like situation - a superstar-driven team that is lacking enough supporting talent to compete at the highest level.
Instead, go all in after the season is over. The Giants are in a position to truly sell a player like Ohtani on the future and his place in the organization.
Obviously a legit take.
Three comments: First, you aren’t stripping the farm system if you deal Harrison, Luciano, Schmitt, Winn and Reggie Crawford. There is plenty left. And you are keeping Bailey and Matos. Who right now are probably the No.1 and 2 prospects. That’s one reason you build depth.
Second, you are essentially trading for two players. Both in the top 3 of pitchers are hitters.
Third, how confident are you of your organizations ability to sell itself if a player gets a 2 1/2 month test? Especially if you feel that adding Ohtani can make up you a WS favorite. (And it might. Ohtani, Webb and Cobb is a terrific top end.) Alex Cobb alluded to this recently.
My guess is he will never be a Giant. And honestly, I see both sides of the trade issue. Without knowing exactly the cost, it’s hard to make a couch potato decision.
But it’s a fun discussion….
Speaking of fun discussion, how about Harrison, Luciano and Whisenhunt for Ohtani. That is one proposal that is floating around.
Sounds like a good one. And throw in Joey Bart, Hunter Bishop and Mitch Haniger. Maybe David Villar and Isan Diaz, too.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-15-2023
Giants now 51-41, 2-0 after the All Star break. Projects to 91-71, 1/2 game behind Diamondbacks and 1 full game behind the Mets. Two games behind the Dodgers.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-16-2023
(07-15-2023, 07:21 PM)Mick Wrote: Giants now 51-41, 2-0 after the All Star break. Projects to 91-71, 1/2 game behind Diamondbacks and 1 full game behind the Mets. Two games behind the Dodgers.
Think you meant Marlins...
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-16-2023
I note that Carlos Correa is at .233/.305/.410/.715. Pretty happy we didn't waste $30 million+ a year on that guy. The only thing he's leading the league in is grounding into double plays with 18. Nice going, Farhan...
Now just to get Shohei...
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-16-2023
(07-16-2023, 11:13 AM)Mick Wrote: I note that Carlos Correa is at .233/.305/.410/.715. Pretty happy we didn't waste $30 million+ a year on that guy. The only thing he's leading the league in is grounding into double plays with 18. Nice going, Farhan...
Now just to get Shohei...
You don’t analyze a long term contract after a couple months. But whatever Correa did and does, it was the right move given the circumstances.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-16-2023
Another Ohtani to Giants prediction...
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san-francisco-giants/shohei-ohtani-traded-from-angels/1640889/
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 07-16-2023
(07-16-2023, 12:44 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Another Ohtani to Giants prediction...
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san-francisco-giants/shohei-ohtani-traded-from-angels/1640889/
Going to be a fun two weeks. Mets are 9 out of last WC spot, Pads 7.5. Unless one or both go on a tear next 12-days, they should be sellers.
Verlander
Scherzer
Darvish
Snell
Hader
Some pretty good pitchers. Darvish has a long term contract. I believe Scherzer, Snell and Hader will be FA’s. Verlander has a year left, but also a player option.
It’s going to be interesting.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-16-2023
(07-16-2023, 12:23 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-16-2023, 11:13 AM)Mick Wrote: I note that Carlos Correa is at .233/.305/.410/.715. Pretty happy we didn't waste $30 million+ a year on that guy. The only thing he's leading the league in is grounding into double plays with 18. Nice going, Farhan...
Now just to get Shohei...
You don’t analyze a long term contract after a couple months. But whatever Correa did and does, it was the right move given the circumstances.
Based on the direction he's going, I'm fairly confident that the $30mms.+ for many years in a row would have been a bad investment.
Giants are 52-41, 11 games over .500, tied for the most games over .500 when they were 44-33. They have a three game post-All Star winning streak. Lots of interesting trade possibiliities...
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-16-2023
(07-16-2023, 03:14 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-16-2023, 12:44 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Another Ohtani to Giants prediction...
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san-francisco-giants/shohei-ohtani-traded-from-angels/1640889/
Going to be a fun two weeks. Mets are 9 out of last WC spot, Pads 7.5. Unless one or both go on a tear next 12-days, they should be sellers.
Verlander
Scherzer
Darvish
Snell
Hader
Some pretty good pitchers. Darvish has a long term contract. I believe Scherzer, Snell and Hader will be FA’s. Verlander has a year left, but also a player option.
It’s going to be interesting.
I don’t think SD will be a seller. They have far too much invested in their current team to start tearing things down. Given the way they spend money, they might double down and be a buyer.
Having said that, I did read that the only big name they might consider trading is Soto.
As noted, this will be a very interesting couple weeks.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-17-2023
The Giants aren't taking on Scherzer's $43M option. They aren't paying that much for a 39 yo Pitcher, neither is anyone else, so the odds are he will opt in next year. I don't believe anyone will take Scherzer in a trade for this reason.
The Giants might "give up the farm" and be willing to pay $60M+ annually for Ohtani.
The best option might be Marcus Stroman. He has a $21M player option for 2024 that the Giants would take on, and they are probably OK with him walking if he opts out and becomes a free agent. But every other team in contention will want him too.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-17-2023
(07-17-2023, 06:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants aren't taking on Scherzer's $43M option. They aren't paying that much for a 39 yo Pitcher, neither is anyone else, so the odds are he will opt in next year. I don't believe anyone will take Scherzer in a trade for this reason.
The Giants might "give up the farm" and be willing to pay $60M+ annually for Ohtani.
The best option might be Marcus Stroman. He has a $21M player option for 2024 that the Giants would take on, and they are probably OK with him walking if he opts out and becomes a free agent. But every other team in contention will want him too.
Ohtani pencils because he's two players in one. He's Babe Ruth, 21st century version...great hitter, great pitcher, and he just turned 29.
He might consider refraining from stealing bases. He did pretty well the first three years of his career...and then he led the AL in "caught stealing" with 10 in 2021. He led the AL in triples that year, he leads the AL in triples so far this year, and leads the AL in home runs, slugging percentage, OPS, OPS+ and total bases. He's T2 for RBIs with 73 (A. Garcia has 80).
I'd tell the Angels "take your pick, any three pitchers and two infielders" -- they need pitching more than anything else, they're 24th in MLB in runs allowed per game. And all of their infielders are below MLB average in WAR, particularly their 3B. THey might ask for Doval, or Rogers, or Phillips or Wade with the prospects.
I'd tell Ohtani "pick a number that begins with a '6' ... he's worth it. I'd rather have Ohtani 10x over Arson Judge.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-17-2023
(07-17-2023, 08:05 AM)Mick Wrote:(07-17-2023, 06:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants aren't taking on Scherzer's $43M option. They aren't paying that much for a 39 yo Pitcher, neither is anyone else, so the odds are he will opt in next year. I don't believe anyone will take Scherzer in a trade for this reason.
The Giants might "give up the farm" and be willing to pay $60M+ annually for Ohtani.
The best option might be Marcus Stroman. He has a $21M player option for 2024 that the Giants would take on, and they are probably OK with him walking if he opts out and becomes a free agent. But every other team in contention will want him too.
Ohtani pencils because he's two players in one. He's Babe Ruth, 21st century version...great hitter, great pitcher, and he just turned 29.
He might consider refraining from stealing bases. He did pretty well the first three years of his career...and then he led the AL in "caught stealing" with 10 in 2021. He led the AL in triples that year, he leads the AL in triples so far this year, and leads the AL in home runs, slugging percentage, OPS, OPS+ and total bases. He's T2 for RBIs with 73 (A. Garcia has 80).
I'd tell the Angels "take your pick, any three pitchers and two infielders" -- they need pitching more than anything else, they're 24th in MLB in runs allowed per game. And all of their infielders are below MLB average in WAR, particularly their 3B. THey might ask for Doval, or Rogers, or Phillips or Wade with the prospects.
I'd tell Ohtani "pick a number that begins with a '6' ... he's worth it. I'd rather have Ohtani 10x over Arson Judge.
Everyone knows about Ohtani. How about expanding the trade conversation beyond him? Or am I just gonna have to wait for Grant Brisbee to write the inevitable story outlining like 10 possible trade options for the Giants with about 5 guys I've never heard of before?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-17-2023
Until I read an article (The Athletic) this morning about potential trade options for the Angels, I was not aware that Ohtani lives in Seattle in the off-season. That bumps Seattle up the list of potential trade partners/free agent destinations.
The Giants best chance of acquiring Ohtani is via free agency. I don’t think they are going to trade what would be necessary to get the Angels to yes. Zaidi isn’t going to give up Harrison, Luciano, Whisenhunt, Matos and McCray (the package listed by the author as what it would probably take to get the deal done).
I do think Ohtani will be traded and I also believe that SF will be a bridesmaid in the Ohtani free agency sweepstakes (the Dodgers/Mariners are looking like the favorites).
And no, it won’t be because SF can’t match (or better) any salary offer extended to Ohtani. They demonstrated their willingness to spend big last off-season.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Goose - 07-17-2023
IMO the big question is whether Ohtani believes Seattle is in a position to "win now", or at least "win soon". Today, they aren't much better than his current team. While his presence would undoubtedly make Seattle better, would it move them into perennial contention at the top of the AL? Probably not. OTOH, LA is already "there", more or less. The problem would be "fit", and I have no idea how Ohtani views his potential role on that team.
No matter where he goes, he will get a pile of money. If he goes to Seattle he will be a very big fish in a medium sized pond. In LA, he might be just a slightly large fish in a ocean. He may believe he can lead Seattle to success, which would be a "bigger" deal than joining an already solid contender. It will be interesting to see where he goes.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 07-17-2023
I really hope they've figured out what they've done wrong in the past (Judge, Stanton, Harper et al) and with Ohtani the first time around, although I gather the Giants were very close. I'd hate to see the Giants mortgage their future, even for Ohtani.
Giants at Reds. Webb pitching, Slater leading off. Flores, Conforto, Davis, Bailey, Yaz, Matos, Schmitt, Wisely.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-17-2023
I don’t think they did anything wrong. They gave it their best shot and the players chose other teams for a variety of reasons.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-18-2023
The Giants have signed their top 2 picks, both High School players, Bryce Eldridge and Walker Martin: From Jim Calls of MLB Pipeline:
Quote:The Giants are signing 16th overall pick Bryce Eldridge to a $3.9975MM bonus, reports Jim Callis of MLB Pipeline. That’s a bit below the selection’s $4.33MM slot value. Eldridge, a two-way player from a Virginia high school, ranked between 16th and 23rd on the referenced pre-draft lists. Listed at 6’7″, he’s generally regarded as a more talented power-hitting first base/corner outfield prospect than as a pitcher, though evaluators suggest he could’ve been a top-two round selection were he solely on the mound. He’s expected to try playing both ways to begin his professional career. The lefty hitter/righty thrower had been committed to Alabama. San Francisco also signed 52nd pick Walker Martin for an overslot $2.9975MM bonus. An Arkansas commit, Martin is a power-hitting infielder from a Colorado high school.
Their next 11 picks were all out of college, so the odds are pretty high they sign relatively quickly now.
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2023/all/team/giants
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 07-18-2023
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SFGProspects/status/1681356532892712961[/tweet]
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 07-18-2023
(07-18-2023, 12:32 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/SFGProspects/status/1681356532892712961[/tweet]
2024 Opening Day lineup
C - Bailey
1B - Wade
2B - Estrada
SS - Luciano
3B - Davis
LF - Haniger
CF - Matos
RF - Yaz
DH - Ohtani
P - Webb
Hey, if you can win the lottery by simply buying a $2 ticket, you can post an Opening Day lineup like the one above. The odds are probably about the same.