WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - Printable Version

WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - 81alum - 02-18-2023

A few more tidbits.

USC field goals: 14. For the game.

Stanford free throw shooting: 100%

Total rebounds: USC 43 Stanford 43

Bench points: USC 0 Stanford 15

Points in the paint: USC 2 Stanford 34. 2?!

Some of these stats are mind boggling. This was not a normal game.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - chimera - 02-18-2023

(02-18-2023, 12:22 AM)81alum Wrote: Some of these stats are mind boggling. This was not a normal game.

I'll say!!!!!! We won so I guess I should stop fussing but that darn game offended me, it was so ugly.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - 81alum - 02-18-2023

(02-18-2023, 12:24 AM)chimera Wrote:
(02-18-2023, 12:22 AM)81alum Wrote: Some of these stats are mind boggling. This was not a normal game.

I'll say!!!!!! We won so I guess I should stop fussing but that darn game offended me, it was so ugly.

Indeed! The only thing worse than witnessing this travesty (of officiating) would have been witnessing this travesty and losing.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - treetop11 - 02-18-2023

Now yes, this game was frustrating to watch as I'll detail below, but I have to laugh at MV7 who said that he hopes the team and head coach can learn and get better so they can represent well at the Big Dance. This person wins the golden hubris award. Yeah, I sure hope the winningest coach in WBB and likely all of NCAA basketball in the future can learn something and get better. And this team which is 25-3, leading the P12 and ranked 3rd in the country better get its act together or they will be an embarrassment in the tourney. Of course, they need to learn to get better so they will be ready for solid competition - it's a shame they didn't toughen up more having only the 10th most difficult SOS in the country and only dominating the #1 only unbeaten team for 3 quarters and losing narrowly in OT. Our team and head coach are really slackers.

On to my observations:

- Team did not play with the energy and intensity or toughness I wanted to see. Refs let them play, sc was overly physical and got away with lots, we did not respond. We only had 9 fouls and no one had more than 2. Only Brink and Nivar played with the kind of passion and determination needed. Agnes did too but she always does and had limited PT tonight.

- Not their best games, but we lose without the points, rebounds, blocks and assists by Brink and Jones. Overall, Jones played poorly compared to her ability, but she had some really bad moments. I was dumbstruck when she had a wide open Demetre about 10 feet away in the corner and didn't get her the ball. Brink needs to stop shooting the jumpers mid range out until she gets in the flow or a miss doesn't affect us and Jones needs to stop the acrobatic shots except on occasion.

- I despise sc generally - this WBB team falls right in line. Never cared for Gottlieb and don't like the players. #24 is bordeline dirty. They make moving/illegal screens look like an artform but never got called.
-

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - 81alum - 02-18-2023

Has anyone ever seen a basketball game at any level where one team had 2 or fewer points in the paint?

Highlights. In watching these, I am struck by how labored the highlights were. Very little came easily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn4ehZWFBDA

Presser: Tara: "Our weak link of the game was our rebounding....I am proud of our defense, defense will carry us a long way, but we have to get our rebounding going."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn73lwC29Uk

Brink interview on breaking blocks record. The magnitude of this accomplishment should be recognized. Think of all the great posts in Stanford history--and Brink breaks their record in her junior year. Jayne Appel: "You have taken the torch and moved it to a higher level."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UoGlgNNuSE

Perhaps the most important revelation of the press conference. Reporter asked Cam if she would leave after this year.

Tara: "Bad idea."

Cam: "No, the reason to go to Stanford is to stay for 4 years, get your degree."

Tara: "Good idea."

Cam: "I want to stay."

Tara: "Five years, get a master's."

Cam: "Maybe."

Me: "G*d I love Cam Brink." (I couldn't help myself. No, I was not at the presser, just thinking it.)

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - 81alum - 02-18-2023

Attendance tonight: 6343, which is one of the best for conference games in many years. However, I had two empty seats to my left and four empty seats to my right. Go figure.

I really hope Monday turns out well. Another important game, and Senior night. But it sucks that they moved senior night to a Monday night instead of a Sunday afternoon.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - CompSci87 - 02-18-2023

Heh, the very first basket on the highlights, a 3 by USC, was helped out by a moving screen.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - skip75 - 02-18-2023

(02-17-2023, 10:51 PM)MV72018 Wrote: Only up by 3 with 37 sec to play. Embarrassing. Stanford does not deserve a #1 seed with this caliber of play.

Lots of basketball yet to be played before seeds are determined. So far, 9 of Stanford's 28 games have been played against teams that are currently ranked in the AP Top 25. I happen to believe that they are deserving of a #1 seed as of this time, based on comparisons of their resume with the resumes of other contenders.

They will close out the regular season with 3 more games vs. Top 25 opponents. If all goes well, they will play 3 additional games in the Pac-12 tournament, with 2 of those likely against Top-25 opponents. As a fan, I'm looking forward to seeing how it all unfolds. When the time comes, I think that it will be pretty clear whether or not Stanford has earned a #1 seed.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - qwerty49 - 02-18-2023

Came home late and watched the replay -- OMG what a root canal that was!

At one point we were up 40-29 and then we got outscored 18-10 the rest of the game. Fortunately $C was just a little worse than we were on offense.

I gotta say I'm getting less and less enamored of Lepolo. She's just getting a little too Martha-like.

OTOH Nivar really stepped up, although she lost a little aggressiveness toward the end.

Good move by Tara putting Agnes in on Littleton. I really thought that turned things around in the first half.

Best play was, again, watching Cam bring the ball up court. But watching her miss all those 3's and mid-range shots was painful.

I had high hopes for the Betts/Brink post combo, but I'm not sure I see the chemistry yet. I do want to see more of that combination. But as another poster mentioned, Betts doesn't seem to consistently have the intensity yet.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. USC Friday 8pm - M T - 02-18-2023

(02-17-2023, 09:56 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: dont think anyone can complain about the refs so far.

Notes while I watched the recorded game:

1Q 8:28 USC 3' moving screen to allow a 3PT make.
1Q 7:30 USC slight moving screen prevents Jump from following her player, but then Jump is called for a foul on the shooter whom she isn't near. Call is by a ref whose view is blocked, so apparently reacting to Littletion's backward flop.
1Q 6:52 USC two moving screens by the same player leads to a 3pt make.
(2Q 7:30 Wandering Jones leaves her player (only 20% 3PT%) open for a wide open 3.)
(2Q 6:58 Another flop try by, you guessed it, Littleton)
(2Q 6:28 Circus shot miss by Jones with Demetre open for a 3)
(2Q 6:08 Jones fails to get out on player on a switch, allowing a long 3)
(2Q 2:27 Another USC attempted flop)
(2Q 2:15 Brink should know better than to try to rescue a ball under the opponent's goal!)
2Q 0:34.4 USC moving screen leads to a 3PT make
2Q 0:25 Brink makes an obvious moving screen
3Q 9:09 Should have been a foul on Brink
(3Q 8:24 Loose defense by Jones results in an open 3ptr by her player)
3Q 6:03 USC moving screen
(3Q 5:00 Wandering Jones lets her player hit a wide open 3)
3Q 0:16 The elbow over the head of the defender could have been called an intentional foul by Brink
3Q 0:03 Should have been a foul on USC on Jones's 2PT
(4Q 9:35 Wandering Jones doesn't pay any attention to her player who goes to get the O-board)
(4Q 8:15 Wandering Jones doesn't pay any attention to her player for about 10 seconds, leading to a wide-open 3PT miss)
(4Q 6:33 Jump gets blocked out, leading to a USC O-board)
4Q 6:24 USC Moving screen allows a 3PT miss and leads to a USC O-board.
(4Q 3:30 Jones failure to block out allows her player to get a USC O-board)
(4Q 3:25 Jones/Nivar communication failure leads to an open shot)
(4Q 3:22 Iriafen tries to block out but isn't effective, leading to USC O-board)
4Q 2:45 USC Push-off and two moving screens leads to a foul called against Stanford.
(4Q 1:58 Jones's player screens Nivar; Jones doesn't switch, leaving a wide open 3pt miss)
(4Q 1:43 Jump/Nivar miscommunication leads to an open 3pt make)
(4Q 1:05 Brink should have been called for a silly foul)

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - M T - 02-18-2023

For those that come to praise Nivar, I ask why did Stanford lose by 3 points when she was in the game?

On the other hand, Stanford won by 6 points when Lepolo was in the game.

(02-18-2023, 12:54 AM)81alum Wrote: Has anyone ever seen a basketball game at any level where one team had 2 or fewer points in the paint?

Hey, BobK, did you get to witness the 2-1 and 7-0 victories over Cal? (;-)

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - BobK - 02-18-2023

I stood right next to you MT at the 2-1 game. Lol

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - WBB fan - 02-18-2023

(02-18-2023, 07:50 AM)BobK Wrote: I stood right next to you MT at the 2-1 game. Lol

I thought that men weren't allowed at that game! Were you in drag?

(02-18-2023, 05:19 AM)M T Wrote:
(02-17-2023, 09:56 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: dont think anyone can complain about the refs so far.
Notes while I watched the recorded game:

1Q 8:28 USC 3' moving screen to allow a 3PT make.
1Q 7:30 USC slight moving screen prevents Jump from following her player, but then Jump is called for a foul on the shooter whom she isn't near. Call is by a ref whose view is blocked, so apparently reacting to Littletion's backward flop.
1Q 6:52 USC two moving screens by the same player leads to a 3pt make.
(2Q 7:30 Wandering Jones leaves her player (only 20% 3PT%) open for a wide open 3.)
(2Q 6:58 Another flop try by, you guessed it, Littleton)
(2Q 6:28 Circus shot miss by Jones with Demetre open for a 3)
(2Q 6:08 Jones fails to get out on player on a switch, allowing a long 3)
(2Q 2:27 Another USC attempted flop)
(2Q 2:15 Brink should know better than to try to rescue a ball under the opponent's goal!)
2Q 0:34.4 USC moving screen leads to a 3PT make
2Q 0:25 Brink makes an obvious moving screen
3Q 9:09 Should have been a foul on Brink
(3Q 8:24 Loose defense by Jones results in an open 3ptr by her player)
3Q 6:03 USC moving screen
(3Q 5:00 Wandering Jones lets her player hit a wide open 3)
3Q 0:16 The elbow over the head of the defender could have been called an intentional foul by Brink
3Q 0:03 Should have been a foul on USC on Jones's 2PT
(4Q 9:35 Wandering Jones doesn't pay any attention to her player who goes to get the O-board)
(4Q 8:15 Wandering Jones doesn't pay any attention to her player for about 10 seconds, leading to a wide-open 3PT miss)
(4Q 6:33 Jump gets blocked out, leading to a USC O-board)
4Q 6:24 USC Moving screen allows a 3PT miss and leads to a USC O-board.
(4Q 3:30 Jones failure to block out allows her player to get a USC O-board)
(4Q 3:25 Jones/Nivar communication failure leads to an open shot)
(4Q 3:22 Iriafen tries to block out but isn't effective, leading to USC O-board)
4Q 2:45 USC Push-off and two moving screens leads to a foul called against Stanford.
(4Q 1:58 Jones's player screens Nivar; Jones doesn't switch, leaving a wide open 3pt miss)
(4Q 1:43 Jump/Nivar miscommunication leads to an open 3pt make)
(4Q 1:05 Brink should have been called for a silly foul)

What an amazing analysis. I came home last night after the game to find my husband watching it, had missed it because of an unbreakable conflict He didn't know the outcome so I didn't tell him, but I watched the 2nd half with him. And it looked to me, as it had at the game, that the ref approach was way beyond "let them play." Your detail here is great. There was so much pushing, shoving, and grabbing that was ignored. Cam obviously thought so as well when a foul was called at last and she turned her back and slammed the ball on the floor. Looked to me as if she was thinking and expressing, "it's about time."

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - cardfan1996 - 02-18-2023

It matters who is in the game with Nivar and Lepolo. Lepolo doesn’t pass the eye test and she simply doesn’t have the basketball skill or passing vision to play against a ball pressure defense.

Agnes cannot dribble and so she cannot create for herself or others which makes her a liability on offense, especially against aggressive defenses.

Hannah cannot make plays for herself or others.

Tara keeps rolling out Lepolo, Agnes and Hannah together at the same time and that has brought the offense to a standstill since November but that hasn’t discouraged Tara one bit from rolling them out there together every game.

If the weak link is rebounding then the weak link is defense too because defensive rebounding is essential to playing good defense. Oy vey

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - martyup - 02-18-2023

The inconsistency of WBB officiating is really hurting this sport at a time when WBB is surging in popularity. IMO, it will put a ceiling on the broadcast value of WBB games.

It is time that the conferences decide to do something about it. Perhaps increasing the pay to WBB refs while at the same time firing the bad ones. (That's you Mr. Bacon.)

Cameron talks about anxiety. Well, imagine how much of her anxiety comes from the crazy inconsistency of WBB refs. She is trying to improve her game by being effective on D without fouling. In one game she is whistled for every slight touch on an opponent while in another, like last night, it's a rugby match with no calls.

There is a reason that MBB refs are better than WBB refs. Money and accountability.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - Card10Fan - 02-18-2023

(02-18-2023, 01:28 AM)81alum Wrote: Attendance tonight: 6343, which is one of the best for conference games in many years. However, I had two empty seats to my left and four empty seats to my right. Go figure.

I really hope Monday turns out well. Another important game, and Senior night. But it sucks that they moved senior night to a Monday night instead of a Sunday afternoon.

For some context:
Our largest home crowd last year was 4100 for NCAA game against Kansas. Year prior was Covid year (no fans). Year prior to that we had 6500 for a home game against Oregon (Sabrina's senior year). Agreed, last night was one of largest in many years.

We've had some really good crowds this year overall. SC was sellout. Oregon over 5000. Last night vs USC over 6000. I hope Monday is a big crowd too. Although with a 6pm start - I assume will be a late arriving crowd. Our seniors deserve a great senior night. Can't let the Bruins spoil the celebration.

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - crackpot - 02-18-2023

(02-18-2023, 12:20 AM)chimera Wrote: Littleton is one of my least favorite players ever after watching this show. Whining, flinging her arms around like she was mugged when anyone was near her, all that good stuff. USC's offense is wretched and screw Gottlieb and staff for subjecting us to it. They don't shoot threes well but were canning them early to stay in the game. We got up 11 and should have pulled away a bit but got sloppy and let them make it a slog. Ick. Double ick.

Have to say, I came away from this game gaining a new least-favorite player. She was seething about her teammates in the first quarter, at one point planted at the southeast corner of the court just watching her teammates attempt to score while she just stood there staring them down. y favorite moment, though, had to be when she was performing her "I was horrifically fouled!" routine and the only player who had been near her was her own teammate. To be fair, the color combos of the uniforms last night were very confusing.

Baez87 - Baez87 - 02-18-2023

A few random thoughts…
Yes, Rayah Marshall was at the game. She was on the bench, but not in uniform. Apparently she had a torso strain and might play against Cal on Sunday.
I generally agree with the above game analyses along with some well-placed squelches of overly critical posts. Our young players keep winning while playing less than perfect games. They aren’t perfect, nor are any of the teams, players, or coaches in Division 1. The key is to play hard and improve their game as the season progresses, which they are. It is nice to see that Tara has more options from her deep, talented team. I’m sure that she is quite aware of the difficulty in developing starter team chemistry when playing too deep into the bench.
And, speaking of Tara, I think that she deserves a great deal of credit for coaching Haley. Players, such as Haley, who are the subject to considerable national publicity can be difficult to coach. I’ve noticed a few situations over the year where an overreaction by Tara could have lead to a conflict, but Tara, and the other coaches, diffused the situations without incident. I’m not going to say more, except that we can’t take our coaching staff for granted in our own need for perfection.
In the flurry of rampant physical play, missed calls, and missed O-boards, let’s not miss observing one of our best team qualities that can only be measured by the final score in a close game. Our players maintain a high level of team camaraderie and spirit when the going get tough! And they keep winning!

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - BostonCard - 02-18-2023

You know what other game was a root canal? The national championship game against Arizona two years ago, a 54-53 win where Arizona had a chance at a game winning shot as time expired. You will also recall that Arizona was good (top-25), but hardly one of the top teams in the country. Had that game occurred at any point other than in the finals, we might have said "yuck, we aren't that good" and certain posters amongst us would have been very critical of the team and coach after that win.

Stanford is a good, but flawed team. We are ranked in the top 4, which seems reasonable given our track record and the fact that aside from South Carolina and maybe Indiana, there really is no other team without flaws. Most of those teams' flaws are more substantial than Stanford's. I don't think that even the most optimistic poster here denies the existence of our weaknesses, and it means that once we get to the sweet sixteen, we won't be able to take any games for granted. If/when we get to the final four, we will have to play better than we played today to move on.

But that is also not a reason not to celebrate that we beat a tough, ranked team, even if it was by the skin of our teeth. And it is no reason to get histrionic about the team, the coach, or our prospects going forward.

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford 50 -- USC 47 - WBB fan - 02-18-2023

(02-18-2023, 11:26 AM)BostonCard Wrote: You know what other game was a root canal? The national championship game against Arizona two years ago, a 54-53 win where Arizona had a chance at a game winning shot as time expired. You will also recall that Arizona was good (top-25), but hardly one of the top teams in the country. Had that game occurred at any point other than in the finals, we might have said "yuck, we aren't that good" and certain posters amongst us would have been very critical of the team and coach after that win.

Stanford is a good, but flawed team. We are ranked in the top 4, which seems reasonable given our track record and the fact that aside from South Carolina and maybe Indiana, there really is no other team without flaws. Most of those teams' flaws are more substantial than Stanford's. I don't think that even the most optimistic poster here denies the existence of our weaknesses, and it means that once we get to the sweet sixteen, we won't be able to take any games for granted. If/when we get to the final four, we will have to play better than we played today to move on.

But that is also not a reason not to celebrate that we beat a tough, ranked team, even if it was by the skin of our teeth. And it is no reason to get histrionic about the team, the coach, or our prospects going forward.

BC

Couldn't agree more. Thanks for this breath of fresh air, and all of us use it to take a deep breath and appreciate what we have.