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RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 09-13-2023
The forest through the trees finally revealed itself to me yesterday...
I've been watching Purdy play in realtime, on the All-22, and looked at the stats, and though I've seen the good stuff he does, and been aware of some of the physical and mental reasons he's succeeded, I've not been able to pinpoint the one thing he is elite at, until it hit me after watching Kenny Pickett, Josh Allen, and Justin Fields in Week 1.
Brock Purdy has elite quickness, not just in a couple of aspects but all the ones that matter for a QB, from seeing to processing, to correct decision-making, and moving his feet and body. Purdy plays the game within the game with truly elite quickness and he can throw the ball well enough to make defending him very difficult.
I told one of my Niner fan friend buddies I wouldn't trade Brock Purdy for Josh Allen and he said he wouldn't either, which is interesting because on ESPN radio today (Greeny), they were asking themselves how many teams would trade their QB for Josh Allen. The only guy for whom they said they wouldn't trade Allen in the NFC was Jalen Hurts. No F-ing way do I want Jalen Hurts over Brock Purdy, and I highly doubt Kyle Shanahan would either.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Giants - 09-13-2023
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1694629108' Wrote: 1694629108[/url]']
The forest through the trees finally revealed itself to me yesterday...
I've been watching Purdy play in realtime, on the All-22, and looked at the stats, and though I've seen the good stuff he does, and been aware of some of the physical and mental reasons he's succeeded, I've not been able to pinpoint the one thing he is elite at, until it hit me after watching Kenny Pickett, Josh Allen, and Justin Fields in Week 1.
Brock Purdy has elite quickness, not just in a couple of aspects but all the ones that matter for a QB, from seeing to processing, to correct decision-making, and moving his feet and body. Purdy plays the game within the game with truly elite quickness and he can throw the ball well enough to make defending him very difficult.
I told one of my Niner fan friend buddies I wouldn't trade Brock Purdy for Josh Allen and he said he wouldn't either, which is interesting because on ESPN radio today (Greeny), they were asking themselves how many teams would trade their QB for Josh Allen. The only guy for whom they said they wouldn't trade Allen in the NFC was Jalen Hurts. No F-ing way do I want Jalen Hurts over Brock Purdy, and I highly doubt Kyle Shanahan would either.
As Walsh and Montana were a great match, so are Shanahan and Purdy. It is no surprise that Purdy can process information so quickly, his S2 score was in the 90th percentile (as was Josh Allen’s, a QB I really like - I think he has a very high ceiling but he needs a coach who can rein him him).
Having said that, in terms of elite status, until Purdy wins the “big one”, the jury is out. He has the tools, now he has to win championships…..
RE: 2023 Niners thread - gocard14 - 09-13-2023
It is criminal the degree to which Purdy remains underrated. If he had been a first round pick and played as he has on the field, he would be spoken about in the elite tier of young quarterbacks, rather then rated 29th on TheRinger QB rankings (which is too bad, i usually like Ringer content). Somehow below Pickett, which only makes sense if you don't have eyeballs. For those who can remember, there was a lot of talk about Brady getting carried by his defense and playmakers for years as well. Kurt Warner took forever to be accepted as elite despite elite numbers. We tend to anchor on our evaluation of talent based on someone's past (which is great for us Stanford grads).
He excels in what I believe is a QBs most important skill: Quickly processing the field, making the right read, and getting rid of the ball. Time after time we see freak athletes at QB fail because they can't do this. I'm also not certain it can really be taught in the sense that footwork, throwing motion, etc can, though maybe the VR tech from Stanford can help.
He has a second elite skill which is also pretty darn important which is quickness over short distances. He changes direction and accelerates on a dime, which is MUCH more important then top speed for a QB. When Lance was out there, he looked slow even though he has a much faster top end. Doesn't matter much since you rarely get the open space to use it in the NFL.
Accuracy is good enough. Arm talent is good enough.
Hyperbole incoming, but IMO his ceiling is a quicker Drew Brees. For those interested, our old 49ers friend JT O Sullivan has a great youtube channel called QB school where he breaks down QB performances, and he has a lot of good things to say about Brock. Interestingly, his evaluations of Trey Lance were pretty brutal. Mainly Lance was playing with no anticipation, turning down open receivers, and not making throws until or unless people were out of their breaks and wide open. Maybe that would improve with time/reps, but this team is too good to wait.
I do agree that to call a QB elite, he has to produce at an elite level for years on end. But Brock is playing at an elite level.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - French Rage - 09-13-2023
Let's also not ignore price. Maybe one of the other top QBs in the NFL could do as well in the 49ers scheme, maybe even a little better, who knows, but they would also cost $40M a year and the 49ers don't have or want that. The current scheme doesn't require you to be a future HoF QB suped up to 99th percentile in all of the Madden attributes, it requires you to understand what is happening and make the quick decisions needed under Shanahan's offense, with enough physical attributes to get the ball where it needs to be, and in that regard Purdy is damn near perfect. Will he remain so for 10+ years? No idea. Would he fit as well in other teams? No idea. But he's just right for where he is and especially for what he costs.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 09-13-2023
Love the commentary that you can pretty much drop any QB in the league into the Niners right now, and they'd be great, too.
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/brock-purdy-doubters-nick-wright/1654655/
I guess any QB except Garappolo, Lance, Darnold, Bethard, and Mullens so far. . . .
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 09-13-2023
(09-13-2023, 03:19 PM)gocard14 Wrote: For those interested, our old 49ers friend JT O Sullivan has a great youtube channel called QB school where he breaks down QB performances...
Been watching his channel for a couple years now. It's really good.
If y'all are looking for comic relief, make sure to watch the breakdown of Justin Fields and the Bears' passing offense against the Packers. OMG, it had me in stitches! JT's tone and language choice is just comical sometimes. I watched the full hour video last night because it was so damn entertaining.
JT is the one who pointed out last year that the Niners don't have hot routes on blitzes when showing video of the Chiefs game that I attended to witness both their only home loss of the year, and the first NFL snaps Brock Purdy ever took. Anyway, the Steelers video analysis demonstrated the Niners still don't have a hot route with free runner at the QB. Hoping someone asks Shanahan why they don't seem to have hot route site adjustments on blitzes some time this season.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 09-13-2023
(09-13-2023, 04:33 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(09-13-2023, 03:19 PM)gocard14 Wrote: For those interested, our old 49ers friend JT O Sullivan has a great youtube channel called QB school where he breaks down QB performances...
Been watching his channel for a couple years now. It's really good.
If y'all are looking for comic relief, make sure to watch the breakdown of Justin Fields and the Bears' passing offense against the Packers. OMG, it had me in stitches! JT's tone and language choice is just comical sometimes. I watched the full hour video last night because it was so damn entertaining.
JT is the one who pointed out last year that the Niners don't have hot routes on blitzes when showing video of the Chiefs game that I attended to witness both their only home loss of the year, and the first NFL snaps Brock Purdy ever took. Anyway, the Steelers video analysis demonstrated the Niners still don't have a hot route with free runner at the QB. Hoping someone asks Shanahan why they don't seem to have hot route site adjustments on blitzes some time this season.
Even these guys had hot routes...
https://youtu.be/sdtIgE33BvQ?t=10
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-14-2023
Goodness gracious. Let’s at least see a full season before putting Purdy in the HOF. I like him. Runs offense beautifully, is accurate and can make plays when things break down. But I’d like to see a full body of work over a season before crowning him. He needs to stay healthy, for one thing.
(09-13-2023, 04:46 PM)Mick Wrote:(09-13-2023, 04:33 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(09-13-2023, 03:19 PM)gocard14 Wrote: For those interested, our old 49ers friend JT O Sullivan has a great youtube channel called QB school where he breaks down QB performances...
Been watching his channel for a couple years now. It's really good.
If y'all are looking for comic relief, make sure to watch the breakdown of Justin Fields and the Bears' passing offense against the Packers. OMG, it had me in stitches! JT's tone and language choice is just comical sometimes. I watched the full hour video last night because it was so damn entertaining.
JT is the one who pointed out last year that the Niners don't have hot routes on blitzes when showing video of the Chiefs game that I attended to witness both their only home loss of the year, and the first NFL snaps Brock Purdy ever took. Anyway, the Steelers video analysis demonstrated the Niners still don't have a hot route with free runner at the QB. Hoping someone asks Shanahan why they don't seem to have hot route site adjustments on blitzes some time this season.
Even these guys had hot routes...
https://youtu.be/sdtIgE33BvQ?t=10
Yes, cause if we know anything it’s that Shanahan doesn’t know much about offense. Maybe JT Sullivan should coach somewhere…..
(09-13-2023, 04:08 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Love the commentary that you can pretty much drop any QB in the league into the Niners right now, and they'd be great, too.
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/brock-purdy-doubters-nick-wright/1654655/
I guess any QB except Garappolo, Lance, Darnold, Bethard, and Mullens so far. . . .
Actually they won a lot with JG. Also think Darnold would be excellent in this offense. But also hoping we don’t find out.
But the general point is - players around QB matter. Look at Chief-Lions. Mahomes without Kelce. No marquis wide out or RB. His receiving corp dropped about 6 passes, including one for a pick six. Looks like he had a pedestrian game. Can’t do it yourself.
That commentators focus on the level on Niners skill position talent is understandable. Because it’s elite. Let’s hope they stay relatively healthy.
Big concern is right side of line. Especially McKivitz. Who is perhaps going to make us pine for McGlinchey…..
RE: 2023 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 09-14-2023
(09-14-2023, 07:47 AM)lex24 Wrote: Goodness gracious. Let’s at least see a full season before putting Purdy in the HOF. I like him. Runs offense beautifully, is accurate and can make plays when things break down. But I’d like to see a full body of work over a season before crowning him. He needs to stay healthy, for one thing.
Actually they won a lot with JG. Also think Darnold would be excellent in this offense. But also hoping we don’t find out.
But the general point is - players around QB matter. Look at Chief-Lions. Mahomes without Kelce. No marquis wide out or RB. His receiving corp dropped about 6 passes, including one for a pick six. Looks like he had a pedestrian game. Can’t do it yourself.
That commentators focus on the level on Niners skill position talent is understandable. Because it’s elite. Let’s hope they stay relatively healthy.
Big concern is right side of line. Especially McKivitz. Who is perhaps going to make us pine for McGlinchey…..
Regarding Jimmy, yes they won, but interestingly last season, the offense averaged 22 a game with Jimmy, 33 a game with Brock (iirc from the article). Darnold didn't beat Brock out, and didn't looked all that special in pre.
The O-line does have some concerns, and they aren't deep. McKivitz was on skates last Sunday.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 09-14-2023
It isn't just McKivitz, it's Burford as well. McKivitz gave up three sacks, but the two of them gave up nine quarterback pressures, leading to two fumbles. Burford also had a hold, a false start and a facemask. Not good.
Last year, the Niners ranked 10th in blocking, their worst performance under Shanahan. If it weren't for Trent Williams, best-graded OL in the league the last three years running (per pff), this group would be subpar overall. Losing McGlinchey didn't help.
Maybe McKivitz will improve. They have the Rams this week, and for some reason, McKivitz did well against Aaron Donald last year in a spot start for Trent Williams. He had an 87.3 rating that week. He was named to PFF's "All-2023 Breakout Team" because they felt he would improve immeaurably this year.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 09-14-2023
(09-14-2023, 09:25 AM)Mick Wrote: It isn't just McKivitz, it's Burford as well. McKivitz gave up three sacks, but the two of them gave up nine quarterback pressures, leading to two fumbles. Burford also had a hold, a false start and a facemask. Not good.
Last year, the Niners ranked 10th in blocking, their worst performance under Shanahan. If it weren't for Trent Williams, best-graded OL in the league the last three years running (per pff), this group would be subpar overall. Losing McGlinchey didn't help.
Maybe McKivitz will improve. They have the Rams this week, and for some reason, McKivitz did well against Aaron Donald last year in a spot start for Trent Williams. He had an 87.3 rating that week. He was named to PFF's "All-2023 Breakout Team" because they felt he would improve immeaurably this year.
They sure could have used that draft capital and cap space to bolster the O-line.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 09-14-2023
(09-14-2023, 09:36 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-14-2023, 09:25 AM)Mick Wrote: It isn't just McKivitz, it's Burford as well. McKivitz gave up three sacks, but the two of them gave up nine quarterback pressures, leading to two fumbles. Burford also had a hold, a false start and a facemask. Not good.
Last year, the Niners ranked 10th in blocking, their worst performance under Shanahan. If it weren't for Trent Williams, best-graded OL in the league the last three years running (per pff), this group would be subpar overall. Losing McGlinchey didn't help.
Maybe McKivitz will improve. They have the Rams this week, and for some reason, McKivitz did well against Aaron Donald last year in a spot start for Trent Williams. He had an 87.3 rating that week. He was named to PFF's "All-2023 Breakout Team" because they felt he would improve immeaurably this year.
They sure could have used that draft capital and cap space to bolster the O-line.
Agreed. Or, the Niners could trade for a RT and a RG to a team(s) that's on a youth movement. The Falcons aren't going anywhere. How about Burford and a draft pick for Chris Lindstrom, best run blocker in the NFL at any position? Same for Luke Goedeke from Tampa Bay, also not going anywhere? Best RT in football, being forced to transfer to the left side. Both the Falcons and the Bucs have about $2 mms. to $4 mms. of cap space on their roster. Maybe they can offload somebody?
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-14-2023
(09-14-2023, 08:26 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(09-14-2023, 07:47 AM)lex24 Wrote: Goodness gracious. Let’s at least see a full season before putting Purdy in the HOF. I like him. Runs offense beautifully, is accurate and can make plays when things break down. But I’d like to see a full body of work over a season before crowning him. He needs to stay healthy, for one thing.
Actually they won a lot with JG. Also think Darnold would be excellent in this offense. But also hoping we don’t find out.
But the general point is - players around QB matter. Look at Chief-Lions. Mahomes without Kelce. No marquis wide out or RB. His receiving corp dropped about 6 passes, including one for a pick six. Looks like he had a pedestrian game. Can’t do it yourself.
That commentators focus on the level on Niners skill position talent is understandable. Because it’s elite. Let’s hope they stay relatively healthy.
Big concern is right side of line. Especially McKivitz. Who is perhaps going to make us pine for McGlinchey…..
Regarding Jimmy, yes they won, but interestingly last season, the offense averaged 22 a game with Jimmy, 33 a game with Brock (iirc from the article). Darnold didn't beat Brock out, and didn't looked all that special in pre.
The O-line does have some concerns, and they aren't deep. McKivitz was on skates last Sunday.
Well, there was another change/addition that I suspect was a factor in their increased scoring. Can’t remember who it was. But I think he’s a pretty good player……
As for Darnold, as I said I hope we need not find out. But pre-season games mean less than nothing. Ask Pickett and the Steelers…..
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 09-15-2023
I saw two different analysts react to the Purdy first down throw to Deebo facing Safety blitz differently.
Jonnydel: "This show's Purdy's incredible quickness and escapability"
QB School: "Nice play by Purdy, but where is the hot route? Nobody is even turning their head to look for the ball."
While the play did indicate Purdy's quickness on display throughout his game, it's also true that QBs are generally helped by having hot routes. I'm much more inclined to go with the criticism than the praise.
Greg Cosell was on Colin Cowherd's show yesterday. This guy is hyper critical of what he sees. He heaped praise on Purdy for his ability to quickly diagnose route concepts against specific defenses.
I'm "putting Purdy in the Hall of Fame." I've seen enough. Purdy is a modern day Joe Montana. The only thing missing is a resume of Montana-like accomplishments and the required longevity. But given he has the abilities he does, it seems like just a matter of time before he adds them. Hell, if he didn't get hurt in the NFC championship game, Brock Purdy might have a couple of them already.
I will make a bold prediction. After the Thursday Night Football game against the Giants, Purdy will go from questioned upstart to redefining the position of QB, not by doing spectacularly impressive athletic things, but by just being an elite pocket operator and maker of the simple plays. So much emphasis has been put on pure athletic profile at the position - Kyle Shanahan even fell for it with Trey Lance - that it is time for a correction and Purdy will be the epitome of it.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-15-2023
(09-15-2023, 07:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I saw two different analysts react to the Purdy first down throw to Deebo facing Safety blitz differently.
Jonnydel: "This show's Purdy's incredible quickness and escapability"
QB School: "Nice play by Purdy, but where is the hot route? Nobody is even turning their head to look for the ball."
While the play did indicate Purdy's quickness on display throughout his game, it's also true that QBs are generally helped by having hot routes. I'm much more inclined to go with the criticism than the praise.
Greg Cosell was on Colin Cowherd's show yesterday. This guy is hyper critical of what he sees. He heaped praise on Purdy for his ability to quickly diagnose route concepts against specific defenses.
I'm "putting Purdy in the Hall of Fame." I've seen enough. Purdy is a modern day Joe Montana. The only thing missing is a resume of Montana-like accomplishments and the required longevity. But given he has the abilities he does, it seems like just a matter of time before he adds them. Hell, if he didn't get hurt in the NFC championship game, Brock Purdy might have a couple of them already.
I will make a bold prediction. After the Thursday Night Football game against the Giants, Purdy will go from questioned upstart to redefining the position of QB, not by doing spectacularly impressive athletic things, but by just being an elite pocket operator and maker of the simple plays. So much emphasis has been put on pure athletic profile at the position - Kyle Shanahan even fell for it with Trey Lance - that it is time for a correction and Purdy will be the epitome of it.
That’s not “bold” that’s absurd. I’m beginning to think you’re his agent.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 09-15-2023
(09-15-2023, 08:08 AM)lex24 Wrote:(09-15-2023, 07:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I saw two different analysts react to the Purdy first down throw to Deebo facing Safety blitz differently.
Jonnydel: "This show's Purdy's incredible quickness and escapability"
QB School: "Nice play by Purdy, but where is the hot route? Nobody is even turning their head to look for the ball."
While the play did indicate Purdy's quickness on display throughout his game, it's also true that QBs are generally helped by having hot routes. I'm much more inclined to go with the criticism than the praise.
Greg Cosell was on Colin Cowherd's show yesterday. This guy is hyper critical of what he sees. He heaped praise on Purdy for his ability to quickly diagnose route concepts against specific defenses.
I'm "putting Purdy in the Hall of Fame." I've seen enough. Purdy is a modern day Joe Montana. The only thing missing is a resume of Montana-like accomplishments and the required longevity. But given he has the abilities he does, it seems like just a matter of time before he adds them. Hell, if he didn't get hurt in the NFC championship game, Brock Purdy might have a couple of them already.
I will make a bold prediction. After the Thursday Night Football game against the Giants, Purdy will go from questioned upstart to redefining the position of QB, not by doing spectacularly impressive athletic things, but by just being an elite pocket operator and maker of the simple plays. So much emphasis has been put on pure athletic profile at the position - Kyle Shanahan even fell for it with Trey Lance - that it is time for a correction and Purdy will be the epitome of it.
That’s not “bold” that’s absurd. I’m beginning to think you’re his agent.
I will be sure to post in this thread an example or two of media people saying they were not only wrong about Purdy, but now recognize how talented he is and how this is really what NFL teams should want in a QB. It's going to happen. People who were wrong will go way overboard like this because there is no nuance allowed in sports talk debate.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-15-2023
(09-15-2023, 09:28 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(09-15-2023, 08:08 AM)lex24 Wrote:(09-15-2023, 07:57 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I saw two different analysts react to the Purdy first down throw to Deebo facing Safety blitz differently.
Jonnydel: "This show's Purdy's incredible quickness and escapability"
QB School: "Nice play by Purdy, but where is the hot route? Nobody is even turning their head to look for the ball."
While the play did indicate Purdy's quickness on display throughout his game, it's also true that QBs are generally helped by having hot routes. I'm much more inclined to go with the criticism than the praise.
Greg Cosell was on Colin Cowherd's show yesterday. This guy is hyper critical of what he sees. He heaped praise on Purdy for his ability to quickly diagnose route concepts against specific defenses.
I'm "putting Purdy in the Hall of Fame." I've seen enough. Purdy is a modern day Joe Montana. The only thing missing is a resume of Montana-like accomplishments and the required longevity. But given he has the abilities he does, it seems like just a matter of time before he adds them. Hell, if he didn't get hurt in the NFC championship game, Brock Purdy might have a couple of them already.
I will make a bold prediction. After the Thursday Night Football game against the Giants, Purdy will go from questioned upstart to redefining the position of QB, not by doing spectacularly impressive athletic things, but by just being an elite pocket operator and maker of the simple plays. So much emphasis has been put on pure athletic profile at the position - Kyle Shanahan even fell for it with Trey Lance - that it is time for a correction and Purdy will be the epitome of it.
That’s not “bold” that’s absurd. I’m beginning to think you’re his agent.
I will be sure to post in this thread an example or two of media people saying they were not only wrong about Purdy, but now recognize how talented he is and how this is really what NFL teams should want in a QB. It's going to happen. People who were wrong will go way overboard like this because there is no nuance allowed in sports talk debate.
“Redefining the position.” Give me a break. First, there is nothing new about what you suggest is the redefinition. An “elite pocket operator and maker of the simple plays” is just another way of saying that the first order of business of any QB is effectively running the offense he’s given. Pocket presence has always been a crucial element. Along with accuracy. Along with decision making and vision. Montana, Peyton, Brady. Brees Marino, Elway etc.And,of course, Mahomes.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-17-2023
Nice second half defensive adjustment by Wilks. Blitzed more. Rams are better than expected. Tough win.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 09-17-2023
(09-17-2023, 07:55 PM)lex24 Wrote: Nice second half defensive adjustment by Wilks. Blitzed more. Rams are better than expected. Tough win.
Indeed. Great adjustment, Stafford was getting way too much time when the Niners rushed just four.
Two other notes, an incredibly bogus personal foul call on Greenlaw that led to a Rams TD. Purdy overthrew three wide open receivers on deep routes, missing perhaps three easy TDs.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Giants - 09-17-2023
The Pro Football HOF called. They said to hold up on sending Purdy’s measurements for his gold jacket.
Something about working on the deep ball…..
cardcrimson dateline='[url=tel:1695007932' Wrote: 1695007932[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1695005735' Wrote: 1695005735[/url]']
Nice second half defensive adjustment by Wilks. Blitzed more. Rams are better than expected. Tough win.
Indeed. Great adjustment, Stafford was getting way too much time when the Niners rushed just four.
Two other notes, an incredibly bogus personal foul call on Greenlaw that led to a Rams TD. Purdy overthrew three wide open receivers on deep routes, missing perhaps three easy TDs.
re: Greenlaw - I think he got called for “givin’ him the business” (still, the greatest explanation for a personal foul call ever - RIP Ben Dreith)….