Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread (/thread-23596.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread (/thread-23596.html)
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 08-21-2023
(08-21-2023, 05:45 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: When can we end the Meckler experiment, for now anyway?
Soon, I hope. He's 3 for 23 with 13 strikeouts. Hit .400 in the PCL.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 08-22-2023
(08-21-2023, 06:54 PM)Mick Wrote:(08-21-2023, 05:45 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: When can we end the Meckler experiment, for now anyway?
Soon, I hope. He's 3 for 23 with 13 strikeouts. Hit .400 in the PCL.
You can't go half-way with call-ups. You either commit and let them figure it out as they get more experience at the MLB level, or you don't bring them up. They can't be treated like AJ Pollock veteran types, where if they don't perform right away, they are sent down again (instead of being cut). They will never build confidence and always overthink things in that situation.
And same goes for lineup order. You believe Meckler is a top of order guy because you like the plate discipline he's shown in his career, keep him there for a month or two. The only hope the Giants have is if the young guys raise their performance level in September after taking their lumps in July and August. You look at guys in the minors and it is not at all uncommon for them to struggle for a couple months at a new level, and then start performing better after.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 06:20 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(08-21-2023, 06:54 PM)Mick Wrote:(08-21-2023, 05:45 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: When can we end the Meckler experiment, for now anyway?
Soon, I hope. He's 3 for 23 with 13 strikeouts. Hit .400 in the PCL.
You can't go half-way with call-ups. You either commit and let them figure it out as they get more experience at the MLB level, or you don't bring them up. They can't be treated like AJ Pollock veteran types, where if they don't perform right away, they are sent down again (instead of being cut). They will never build confidence and always overthink things in that situation.
And same goes for lineup order. You believe Meckler is a top of order guy because you like the plate discipline he's shown in his career, keep him there for a month or two. The only hope the Giants have is if the young guys raise their performance level in September after taking their lumps in July and August. You look at guys in the minors and it is not at all uncommon for them to struggle for a couple months at a new level, and then start performing better after.
The Giants hopes offensively rest on their veterans.Flores Conforto Davis. Wade. Estrada Slater Joc. And when back Yaz. Either they start to hit, or they can pack it up.
Rookies can add some energy. And chip in. But they aren’t going to carry a team that’s in a playoff race. And they shouldn’t be asked to.
As for Meckler SSS in and of themselves when a rook comes up mean nothing. I remember when folks were sending Schmitt straight to the HOF after 25 ABs. Questions are is he (1) overmatched and/or (2) pressing. He’s definitely pressing. Unclear as to whether he’s overmatched. To me, part of his issue is adjusting to the floating strike zone that exists in MLB. Robo Ump strike zones are smaller and more consistent. He got some horrible calls early. Not sure he’s adjusting. He’s also had trouble with off speed stuff. Which is often an issue for a rookie.
I’d send him down at this point. Primarily to get his head right. But they may keep him over either Ramos or Matos for matchups. Cause that’s what they do. I also wonder if Slater is right. He’s something like 0-28 and 7-68.
Harrison today. Should be an exciting 3 innings…..
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 08-22-2023
Hanniger should be back soon
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 08-22-2023
Harrison is done for the day
Three and a third, two runs (a two run homer by Bryce Harper in the first), five hits (all by lefties, I think), one walk, five strikeouts, sixty-five pitches / forty-three strikes. Pitched with blood on the top of his left ring finger for much of the game. A lot to be excited about, he certainly has electric stuff.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 08-22-2023
And the Giants go down, blown save in the ninth. . . .Painful.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 08-22-2023
Would have loved to have been wrong about my no better than 11-16 August prediction in July. Giants are now 7-13 in the month. And now the Giants only have scored 1 more run than they have allowed.
There is a real possibility this team finishes the season below .500. At least they can point to the Yankees and Mets and Padres as far greater failures.
Just play the rookies and get the best draft pick you can. And for the love of all that is holy, please play a set lineup and stop with the platoon split pinch hitting nonsense. No team full of players found at garage sales and in garbage cans is a legit playoff contender.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 05:12 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Harrison is done for the day
Three and a third, two runs (a two run homer by Bryce Harper in the first), five hits (all by lefties, I think), one walk, five strikeouts, sixty-five pitches / forty-three strikes. Pitched with blood on the top of his left ring finger for much of the game. A lot to be excited about, he certainly has electric stuff.
His start was eerily similar to Lincecum’s debut. Both gave up a two run HR and recorded three K’s v. the Phillies in the first inning.
Harrison has an interested delivery and I loved the high heat v. right handers.
All things considered, I think his first start exceeded expectations. I don’t think that it is too early to say the Giants have a long term partner for Webb. Next up - Whisenhunt in 2025 (I hope)…..
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 07:42 PM)Giants Wrote:(08-22-2023, 05:12 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Harrison is done for the day
Three and a third, two runs (a two run homer by Bryce Harper in the first), five hits (all by lefties, I think), one walk, five strikeouts, sixty-five pitches / forty-three strikes. Pitched with blood on the top of his left ring finger for much of the game. A lot to be excited about, he certainly has electric stuff.
His start was eerily similar to Lincecum’s debut. Both gave up a two run HR and recorded three K’s v. the Phillies in the first inning.
Harrison has an interested delivery and I loved the high heat v. right handers.
All things considered, I think his first start exceeded expectations. I don’t think that it is too early to say the Giants have a long term partner for Webb. Next up - Whisenhunt in 2025 (I hope)…..
Comparisons to Lincecum at this point are foolish. But here's another one anyway from Tim's debut: ;-)
In 4 ⅓ innings, Lincecum gave up five runs on five hits with five walks. He struck out five and threw 100 pitches. Advantage, Harrison.
The big concern about Harrison was his alleged lack of command. IIRC, someone pointed out several months ago that the PCL was using robo-umps again this year, and they actually tightened the strike zone, hence league wide issues with control, including Harrison. Once Kyle hit the bigs, his command should be better. The source for that info was from Harrison's dad, who just might know something about the situation.
Though it's a sample size of 3 1/3 innings, his command looked pretty good, throwing two strikes for every ball called. He sure looks to have a great future, and love seeing him with P Bailey.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 08:22 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(08-22-2023, 07:42 PM)Giants Wrote:(08-22-2023, 05:12 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Harrison is done for the day
Three and a third, two runs (a two run homer by Bryce Harper in the first), five hits (all by lefties, I think), one walk, five strikeouts, sixty-five pitches / forty-three strikes. Pitched with blood on the top of his left ring finger for much of the game. A lot to be excited about, he certainly has electric stuff.
His start was eerily similar to Lincecum’s debut. Both gave up a two run HR and recorded three K’s v. the Phillies in the first inning.
Harrison has an interested delivery and I loved the high heat v. right handers.
All things considered, I think his first start exceeded expectations. I don’t think that it is too early to say the Giants have a long term partner for Webb. Next up - Whisenhunt in 2025 (I hope)…..
Comparisons to Lincecum at this point are foolish. But here's another one anyway from Tim's debut: ;-)
In 4 ⅓ innings, Lincecum gave up five runs on five hits with five walks. He struck out five and threw 100 pitches. Advantage, Harrison.
The big concern about Harrison was his alleged lack of command. IIRC, someone pointed out several months ago that the PCL was using robo-umps again this year, and they actually tightened the strike zone, hence league wide issues with control, including Harrison. Once Kyle hit the bigs, his command should be better. The source for that info was from Harrison's dad, who just might know something about the situation.
Though it's a sample size of 3 1/3 innings, his command looked pretty good, throwing two strikes for every ball called. He sure looks to have a great future, and love seeing him with P Bailey.
There is no doubt that it is too early to compare him to Lincecum; however, the first inning comp. was weird. I’m looking forward to his next start at Oracle.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 08-23-2023
(08-22-2023, 09:24 PM)Giants Wrote:I watched the game, and the broadcast highlighted the comparison multiple times, at least the first inning. Odd parallel, no doubt. Think I mentioned, sat with Kyle's family at a sports award dinner--really really nice family. Brother is a good kid, too, and quite a catcher.(08-22-2023, 08:22 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(08-22-2023, 07:42 PM)Giants Wrote:(08-22-2023, 05:12 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Harrison is done for the day
Three and a third, two runs (a two run homer by Bryce Harper in the first), five hits (all by lefties, I think), one walk, five strikeouts, sixty-five pitches / forty-three strikes. Pitched with blood on the top of his left ring finger for much of the game. A lot to be excited about, he certainly has electric stuff.
His start was eerily similar to Lincecum’s debut. Both gave up a two run HR and recorded three K’s v. the Phillies in the first inning.
Harrison has an interested delivery and I loved the high heat v. right handers.
All things considered, I think his first start exceeded expectations. I don’t think that it is too early to say the Giants have a long term partner for Webb. Next up - Whisenhunt in 2025 (I hope)…..
Comparisons to Lincecum at this point are foolish. But here's another one anyway from Tim's debut: ;-)
In 4 ⅓ innings, Lincecum gave up five runs on five hits with five walks. He struck out five and threw 100 pitches. Advantage, Harrison.
The big concern about Harrison was his alleged lack of command. IIRC, someone pointed out several months ago that the PCL was using robo-umps again this year, and they actually tightened the strike zone, hence league wide issues with control, including Harrison. Once Kyle hit the bigs, his command should be better. The source for that info was from Harrison's dad, who just might know something about the situation.
Though it's a sample size of 3 1/3 innings, his command looked pretty good, throwing two strikes for every ball called. He sure looks to have a great future, and love seeing him with P Bailey.
There is no doubt that it is too early to compare him to Lincecum; however, the first inning comp. was weird. I’m looking forward to his next start at Oracle.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 08-23-2023
Another day. Another blown save. Duval takes a 5-2 lead to the ninth. Walks Schwarber. Walks Turner. Gets behind 3-1 to Harper, and over the fence. Tie game. Still no outs.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 08-23-2023
Scored three in the top of the tenth, on the back of the bottom of the order. Give up a quick run in the bottom, but hold on for a much needed win.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 08-24-2023
(08-23-2023, 04:10 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Another day. Another blown save. Duval takes a 5-2 lead to the ninth. Walks Schwarber. Walks Turner. Gets behind 3-1 to Harper, and over the fence. Tie game. Still no outs.
Maybe he should stop shaking Bailey off...
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 08-25-2023
(08-23-2023, 07:44 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(08-22-2023, 09:24 PM)Giants Wrote:I watched the game, and the broadcast highlighted the comparison multiple times, at least the first inning. Odd parallel, no doubt. Think I mentioned, sat with Kyle's family at a sports award dinner--really really nice family. Brother is a good kid, too, and quite a catcher.(08-22-2023, 08:22 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(08-22-2023, 07:42 PM)Giants Wrote:(08-22-2023, 05:12 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Harrison is done for the day
Three and a third, two runs (a two run homer by Bryce Harper in the first), five hits (all by lefties, I think), one walk, five strikeouts, sixty-five pitches / forty-three strikes. Pitched with blood on the top of his left ring finger for much of the game. A lot to be excited about, he certainly has electric stuff.
His start was eerily similar to Lincecum’s debut. Both gave up a two run HR and recorded three K’s v. the Phillies in the first inning.
Harrison has an interested delivery and I loved the high heat v. right handers.
All things considered, I think his first start exceeded expectations. I don’t think that it is too early to say the Giants have a long term partner for Webb. Next up - Whisenhunt in 2025 (I hope)…..
Comparisons to Lincecum at this point are foolish. But here's another one anyway from Tim's debut: ;-)
In 4 ⅓ innings, Lincecum gave up five runs on five hits with five walks. He struck out five and threw 100 pitches. Advantage, Harrison.
The big concern about Harrison was his alleged lack of command. IIRC, someone pointed out several months ago that the PCL was using robo-umps again this year, and they actually tightened the strike zone, hence league wide issues with control, including Harrison. Once Kyle hit the bigs, his command should be better. The source for that info was from Harrison's dad, who just might know something about the situation.
Though it's a sample size of 3 1/3 innings, his command looked pretty good, throwing two strikes for every ball called. He sure looks to have a great future, and love seeing him with P Bailey.
There is no doubt that it is too early to compare him to Lincecum; however, the first inning comp. was weird. I’m looking forward to his next start at Oracle.
I went to Lincecums debut. It was electric. Gave up an HR to Shane Victorino (second batter he faced) and Ryan Howard hit a rocket off him. But you knew you were seeing someone special. They had him at 100 on the gun. Which I expect was a bit amped. But still.
People forget that when Timmy broke in he was essentially a two pitch guy - fastball and curve. The pitch that turned him into a Cy Young winner was his split/change up. Which was devastating. He learned that. Plus, Timmy had sick movement.
Harrison is essentially a two pitch guy at this point - fastball slider. He got a lot of swings and misses on the fastball up. Good late life. Slider was flat but that could be from adrenaline. He threw at least one excellent change up. If he gets that pitch in his arsenal he’s going to be very good.
Except …. He’s a 3-4 inning guy right now. Max 5. He was at 65 pitches. I guess he will be at 80 next start. If im game planning against him, it’s take a lot of pitches. Get his count up as fast as possible. Especially given he’s not yet a high command guy.
I’ll get very excited about his potential when I see he’s capable of getting through an order 3 times. That won’t happen until next year. So, this year, he will be the “featured pitcher”. Give you hopefully a good 4. Fits In perfectly with what the Giants are doing. Which I intensely dislike.
My favorite inning for him was the third. He got early outs. We know he can strike people out. I want to see him learn to get more efficient. That’s the only way he’s going to get deeper in games.
Giants have not had one start in minors go more than 5. I get protecting young arms, but I also don’t see how you flip the switch at the major league level and turn these guys into true starting pitchers. OTOH, we know that the Giants are the smartest organization in the history of baseball. They need not play by any of those silly old rules. Platoon to excess - two slightly better than average platoon pieces are surely better than 1 guy who can play everyday. Right? Churn. No stars necessary. Just give us slightly better than average and our depth will beat you. Rotation? Not necessary. Gabe will mix and match like the brilliant chemist he is.
The Giants way…..
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 08-25-2023
(08-25-2023, 07:36 AM)lex24 Wrote: Harrison is essentially a two pitch guy at this point - fastball slider. He got a lot of swings and misses on the fastball up. Good late life. Slider was flat but that could be from adrenaline. He threw at least one excellent change up. If he gets that pitch in his arsenal he’s going to be very good.
Giants have not had one start in minors go more than 5. I get protecting young arms, but I also don’t see how you flip the switch at the major league level and turn these guys into true starting pitchers. OTOH, we know that the Giants are the smartest organization in the history of baseball. They need not play by any of those silly old rules. Platoon to excess - two slightly better than average platoon pieces are surely better than 1 guy who can play everyday. Right? Churn. No stars necessary. Just give us slightly better than average and our depth will beat you. Rotation? Not necessary. Gabe will mix and match like the brilliant chemist he is.
The Giants way…..
Allegedly, Harrison was a two pitch guy growing up. Fastball and Changeup. The powers that be didn't want to put too much on the arm.
Love the commentary, as well. . . .
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 08-25-2023
Thanks card crimson. I was about to post Harrison has a change up and maybe a very good one for the Najor League level
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 08-27-2023
At what point do the Giants accept reality and just play the young guys? How about this lineup in September?
LF Ramos
CF Meckler
RF Matos
3B Schmitt
SS Luciano (when he returns)
2B Tyler Fitzgerald (dude is 25, get him playing in MLB)
1B Platoon - Wade vs. Right, Flores vs. Left
C: Bailey
Estrada, Davis, Slater, Yaz, Conforto, Haniger, DeJong, and the rest are all bench guys depending on if they are able to play. Crawford gets final start of the year at SS as going away present to fans.
And let's also bring up Mason Black. Maybe Kai -Wei Teng too, along with Harrison obviously.
I'm now convinced the Giants are going to finish under .500 this year. with the current cast Why not get these young guys more MLB experience that will help them for next year?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 08-27-2023
(08-27-2023, 07:43 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: At what point do the Giants accept reality and just play the young guys? How about this lineup in September?
LF Ramos
CF Meckler
RF Matos
3B Schmitt
SS Luciano (when he returns)
2B Tyler Fitzgerald (dude is 25, get him playing in MLB)
1B Platoon - Wade vs. Right, Flores vs. Left
C: Bailey
Estrada, Davis, Slater, Yaz, Conforto, Haniger, DeJong, and the rest are all bench guys depending on if they are able to play. Crawford gets final start of the year at SS as going away present to fans.
And let's also bring up Mason Black. Maybe Kai -Wei Teng too, along with Harrison obviously.
I'm now convinced the Giants are going to finish under .500 this year. with the current cast Why not get these young guys more MLB experience that will help them for next year?
Can’t do that as long as you are in the hunt. Unfair to the vets etc. Plus they are far from out of it. Also, the schedule eases up considerably .
But it is an interesting question for ‘24. Conforto Manaea and Stripling are all going to be back. I don’t see any exercising their option and opting out. Interesting winter coming up.
(08-25-2023, 08:42 AM)BobK Wrote: Thanks card crimson. I was about to post Harrison has a change up and maybe a very good one for the Najor League level
Not so sure of that Bob. I read he was working on it. But not sure it’s a big part of his arsenal. I could be wrong. He may have had a chaneup as his second pitch in HS. But not in the minors.
Edit : Reread Keith Law’s bit on him. Best secondary pitch is a plus slider. “Doesn’t have much of a change up.” That jives with what I read earlier, that he was working to improve his change up.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 08-27-2023
(08-27-2023, 08:28 AM)lex24 Wrote: Can’t do that as long as you are in the hunt. Unfair to the vets etc. Plus they are far from out of it. Also, the schedule eases up considerably .
A. The schedule does not ease up considerably when you aren't very good.
B. "Unfair to vets" ???
On what planet does a team care about "the vets" more than its own interest? "The vets" had their chance. They have gone 8-15 in August to date, and are now in 5th place for Wild Card spot.