Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Printable Version

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 10-09-2021

He has young kids. Perhaps in a decade.

I'm a bit unhappy about Dickerson over Estrada. Dick has done nothing special for two months.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - teejers1 - 10-09-2021

(10-08-2021, 11:49 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  Truth be told, for whatever reason, the game was not that hard to watch.  There was a fair bit of good football being played, just mostly from the ASU side.  And despite some gaping talent holes, there was a bit of good that came from the game.  Yarusek had a breakout game, 6 catches for 118 yards, and a fair number of them on third and long for a first down.  The defense was beaten quite soundly early, and then stiffened up.  ASU’s offense scored a touchdown on its first three possessions and was six for six on third down conversions, and then the defense got better; bending a bit but coming up with some big plays when it counted.  ASU’s offense never scored after about 5 minutes in the second quarter, and wound up converting one for its last seven third downs.  McKee was up and down, getting some balls into some incredibly tight windows, but also throwing a few bonehead ones (yes, the three INTs, but also a couple near misses).  Give ASU’s defense some credit; they made us one-dimensional and then made us pay for it.  And critically, ASU didn’t shoot itself in the foot - they wound up +2 on turnovers, and until our final drive, had only one penalty.  I think overall, had it been backwards (STanford +2 turnovers and ASU more like 90 yards worth of penalties, this game would have been strangely winnable.

The flashing warning signs are the brutally atrocious running game, a miserable game for the offensive line, shady tackling for much of the game, and getting run all over.

We are not a good team, but I don’t think we are a miserable team either.  I still think we can eek out another three wins against the softer part of our schedule, even if OSU will be a tougher out than I had expected.

BC

Oh, I'll probably watch the DVR at some point today - just to see for myself what was depicted in the game threads.  Your recap sounds about right, though I wonder how much of ASU's 2H failure to score on O was attributable to abandoning (relatively speaking) the running game.  Maybe it was just a desire to work on the passing game.

As for Buster, he has had a terrific season - one I certainly did not anticipate - including some monster hits (the game opening RBIs in last two games are most notable examples).  Colleagues and I at work have been debating the HoF credentials all year.  50/50 on whether he was "in" at beginning of the season.  We should double-check that now, as I suspect it's unanimous in (or near unanimous in) now.

I don't see Buster managing.  Not sure he has the demeanor/interest.  Do you think he is a baseball lifer?  I think he is a baseball star followed by "something else."

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BostonCard - 10-09-2021

Teejers, just be forewarned that we punted from ASU territory four times.  Also, we had one time out to prevent a DoG.

BC

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Embo - 10-09-2021

The

teejers1 Wrote:

BostonCard Wrote:Ok, who is watching the playoff game and who is watching STanford-ASU?

Giants up 2-0 early.

BC

Watched every pitch of the Giants game and not a single play of the ASU-Stanford football game.
For the first time in my life, I'm more emotionally attached to a pro sports team than I am to Stanford football.
I gotta be honest:  Shaw's style has been a big contributor to the detachment.
On the bright side, lopsided games (at least from score and box) don't impose the slightest burn . . . which is a welcome change.

I'm with teejers.  Back in 2018, I did the Thursday night road trip to Tempe (also in part because my daughter was living there at the time).  I didn't plan it this year, as I'm now in rural Virginia for a wedding (and it's beautiful country out here, undeniably).   I watched every pitch of the Giants game also.   I did catch Stanford's first few plays and did see Higgins' TD catch when I switched channels during inning breaks, but that was it.  I learned from the first Giants playoff game I experienced in the stands back in 1987 that it's such an intense atmosphere - everything is so important- that I've honestly never left my seat in all the postseason games I've attended (I got at least one in 2010, 2012, 2014, and 2016). And with this being the Dodgers, the pressure is multiplied.

The other problem is that Stanford offense no longer has an identity.  Intellectual brutality? Not with this OL.  This is why I turned off the TV after Doval went 1-2-3.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - qwerty49 - 10-09-2021

(10-09-2021, 09:37 AM)Phogge Wrote:  He has young kids. Perhaps in a decade.

I'm a bit unhappy about Dickerson over Estrada. Dick has done nothing special for two months.

He had his 15 minutes of fame last year.  I guess he's meant to be the LH version of Ruf, albeit batting 30 points lower.

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lex24 - lex24 - 10-09-2021

(10-09-2021, 09:38 AM)teejers1 Wrote:  

(10-08-2021, 11:49 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  Truth be told, for whatever reason, the game was not that hard to watch.  There was a fair bit of good football being played, just mostly from the ASU side.  And despite some gaping talent holes, there was a bit of good that came from the game.  Yarusek had a breakout game, 6 catches for 118 yards, and a fair number of them on third and long for a first down.  The defense was beaten quite soundly early, and then stiffened up.  ASU’s offense scored a touchdown on its first three possessions and was six for six on third down conversions, and then the defense got better; bending a bit but coming up with some big plays when it counted.  ASU’s offense never scored after about 5 minutes in the second quarter, and wound up converting one for its last seven third downs.  McKee was up and down, getting some balls into some incredibly tight windows, but also throwing a few bonehead ones (yes, the three INTs, but also a couple near misses).  Give ASU’s defense some credit; they made us one-dimensional and then made us pay for it.  And critically, ASU didn’t shoot itself in the foot - they wound up +2 on turnovers, and until our final drive, had only one penalty.  I think overall, had it been backwards (STanford +2 turnovers and ASU more like 90 yards worth of penalties, this game would have been strangely winnable.

The flashing warning signs are the brutally atrocious running game, a miserable game for the offensive line, shady tackling for much of the game, and getting run all over.

We are not a good team, but I don’t think we are a miserable team either.  I still think we can eek out another three wins against the softer part of our schedule, even if OSU will be a tougher out than I had expected.

BC

Oh, I'll probably watch the DVR at some point today - just to see for myself what was depicted in the game threads.  Your recap sounds about right, though I wonder how much of ASU's 2H failure to score on O was attributable to abandoning (relatively speaking) the running game.  Maybe it was just a desire to work on the passing game.

As for Buster, he has had a terrific season - one I certainly did not anticipate - including some monster hits (the game opening RBIs in last two games are most notable examples).  Colleagues and I at work have been debating the HoF credentials all year.  50/50 on whether he was "in" at beginning of the season.  We should double-check that now, as I suspect it's unanimous in (or near unanimous in) now.

I don't see Buster managing.  Not sure he has the demeanor/interest.  Do you think he is a baseball lifer?  I think he is a baseball star followed by "something else."

He absolutely has the demeanor.  Calm as can be.  And garners respect. Not sure he has the interest.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 10-09-2021

(10-09-2021, 09:37 AM)Phogge Wrote:  He has young kids. Perhaps in a decade.

I'm a bit unhappy about Dickerson over Estrada. Dick has done nothing special for two months.

Not only that, Dickerson does terribly against the Dodgers (.136/.208/.205/.413).  It's his second-worst hitting performance against any opponent (min. 6 ABs).  Estrada's not much better against the Dodgers, but he is better (.212/.278/.364/.641) and is particularly better at Dodger Stadium.

Separately, my heart tells me to go with the Giants, but my head tells me to go with the Dodgers for tonight's game.  It isn't Gausman's shakiness, although that is a slight concern.  My greater concern is that Angel Hernandez is working home plate.  Hernandez is, statistically speaking, against the Giants.  He butchered the June series between the Dodgers & Giants:

https://fansided.com/2021/10/08/dodgers-giants-series-angel-hernandez/

Hernandez's calls were in favor of the Dodgers by plus-0.63 runs in the Giants' loss. He was against the Giants by minus-0.53 runs. Even Buster Posey, who is about as mild-mannered as it gets, was baffled by a strike-three call in the loss.  This season, Hernandez served as the home plate umpire twice in Giants games. The second time came in a 5-1 Giants win over the Milwaukee Brewers on Sept. 2, but he again was in favor of the opposition. His calls went against the Giants by minus-0.45 runs.

And some historical context for Logan Webb's feat last night.  In all of postseason history since 1904, only 30 times has a pitcher gone at least 7 2/3+ with 5 or fewer hits, 0 runs and struck out at least 10.  Here's the list:



Oh, and Logan Webb didn't walk a batter. That makes him one of just four: Trevor Bauer, Jake Arrieta and Cliff Lee.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - lex24 - 10-09-2021

(10-09-2021, 09:37 AM)Phogge Wrote:  He has young kids. Perhaps in a decade.

I'm a bit unhappy about Dickerson over Estrada. Dick has done nothing special for two months.

Agree completely.  Estrada brings some speed and defense. And, despite a small sample size, he has reverse splits.  Hit much better off Right handers. Only reason to keep Dickerson is for a left handed PH.  But Estrada brings way more to the table.  And as he’s hit righties well, that lessens the need for Dickerson.

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Baggerly has a great article on Buster in The Athletic.

“It resulted in the 13th shutout in a postseason game that Posey started behind the plate, the most in major-league history. Yadier Molina is next with eight. Yogi Berra caught seven. If that weren’t impressive enough, consider that Posey has caught just 55 postseason games compared with 102 for Molina and 75 for Berra (sorry, Charlie).

Put another way, the Giants have thrown a shutout in 23.6 percent of postseason games Posey has started.”

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 10-09-2021

(10-09-2021, 12:09 PM)lex24 Wrote:  

(10-09-2021, 09:37 AM)Phogge Wrote:  He has young kids. Perhaps in a decade.

I'm a bit unhappy about Dickerson over Estrada. Dick has done nothing special for two months.

Agree completely.  Estrada brings some speed and defense. And, despite a small sample size, he has reverse splits.  Hit much better off Right handers. Only reason to keep Dickerson is for a left handed PH.  But Estrada brings way more to the table.  And as he’s hit righties well, that lessens the need for Dickerson.

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Baggerly has a great article on Buster in The Athletic.

“It resulted in the 13th shutout in a postseason game that Posey started behind the plate, the most in major-league history. Yadier Molina is next with eight. Yogi Berra caught seven. If that weren’t impressive enough, consider that Posey has caught just 55 postseason games compared with 102 for Molina and 75 for Berra (sorry, Charlie).

Put another way, the Giants have thrown a shutout in 23.6 percent of postseason games Posey has started.”

Statistically speaking, Posey is the best catcher in Giants history with 33.5 WAR, clearly outdistancing the other nine; HoF Buck Ewing (33.2), HoF Roger Bresnahan (27.2), Chief Meyers (21.4), Tom Haller (19.0), Harry Danning (15.5), Bob Brenly (12.1), Wes Westrum (12.1), Shanty Hogan (11.7), Dick Dietz (11.6).  The last six were All Stars, Meyers was pre-All Star game but finished in Top 10 for MVP voting three straight years, and Bresnahan and Ewing are HoFers.  As should Posey be.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - old spanish trail - 10-09-2021

Agree totally, Estrada over Dickerson. In addition to closing better, he's by far the best reserve should Crawford need a sub. Plus, he has speed for late game replacement. Dick is still trying to find his stroke in the on deck circle.    RE Cueto, Kapler said he wasn't stretched out enuf after his recent injury to provide innings.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - qwerty49 - 10-09-2021

Ouch. Who’s slower - Buster or Wilmer?

Heck of a play by Turner and nice throw by Mookie. That was the big chance for a crooked number and they shut the door.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 10-09-2021

Never, ever, make the last out at third.

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Dickerson is horrible.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - newguy - 10-09-2021

series tied at a game apiece.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BostonCard - 10-09-2021

Welp.

BC

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - DC 86 - 10-09-2021

(10-09-2021, 08:42 PM)Phogge Wrote:  Never, ever, make the last out at third.

How about the first?

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 10-10-2021

Switching subjects. There have been discussions about players being "injury prone." I think it's a fact, especially in football. Some kids are brittle. I had a couple of friends who usually had a cast or limped a lot. Bike crashes, fights, whatever. George Kittle plays hard and most seasons is walking wounded. He's now on IR. Jason Verrett has missed more games than he's played. The Niners have a huuuuuge IR list that will probably cause them to miss out on postseason, particularly in the best division in the NFL. Garapollo, aside from 2019, is always hurt. Kinlaw, a first rounder, always limited. Hopefully the Niners regime has learned its lesson about drafting injured guys. The guy that would give them a Red Zone threat (Hurd) is hurt for the third season in a row. And no first rounders until 2024.

And now they face the hottest QB in the NFL. Without K Wan, Verrett, Greenlaw and others.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 10-10-2021

Shanahan has panicked as the season slips away. Twice in the fourth Q he has had a chance to pin the Cards but he is 1/5 going for it.

McGlinchy has four holds. Lance has had a bunch of passes blocked at the line. Has no touch but it will come. 49er D has been good.

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lex24 - lex24 - 10-10-2021

(10-10-2021, 04:20 PM)Phogge Wrote:  Shanahan has panicked as the season slips away. Twice in the fourth Q he has had a chance to pin the Cards but he is 1/5 going for it.

McGlinchy has four holds. Lance has had a bunch of passes blocked at the line. Has no touch but it will come. 49er D has been good.

That wasn’t an offense. Sandlot football.  You can see why they are excited about Lance.  But he ha a long ways to go.  Defense played well.

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RE: lex24 - teejers1 - 10-10-2021

(10-10-2021, 04:28 PM)lex24 Wrote:  

(10-10-2021, 04:20 PM)Phogge Wrote:  Shanahan has panicked as the season slips away. Twice in the fourth Q he has had a chance to pin the Cards but he is 1/5 going for it.

McGlinchy has four holds. Lance has had a bunch of passes blocked at the line. Has no touch but it will come. 49er D has been good.

That wasn’t an offense. Sandlot football.  You can see why they are excited about Lance.  But he ha a long ways to go.  Defense played well.

Shanahan thinks he is smarter than he is.
If you know you're going to go for it on fourth down (the fourth and four; not the fourth and one), and if you have a QB who is completing 50% of his passes and staring down his receivers, then you run the ball on third down (maybe another designed run for Lance).  You may get the first down; and you should at least make fourth down more uncertain for the D.  Instead, it was INC INC.  I was sorta with Phogge on that fourth and four - punt it.  But really, it was the third down play that bothered me more.  Shanahan has had a handful of those bad decisions - and they all are very costly.  Who knows it this one impacted game result, but I just don't think it was a smart decision.

P.S.  Lance is not going to survive long in the NFL running the ball 15-20 times a game . . . Having said that, I agree with the color commentator, Sanchez, who said Lance will learn a lot from this start and could be quite good after another game or two.

P.P.S.  Hands up at the line of scrimmage remains the most underappreciated defensive play in football.  It was brobdingnagian today for the Cardinals.

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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 10-11-2021

Shades of Dusty Baker ? I sure hope not

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