Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread (/thread-23596.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread (/thread-23596.html)
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 11-23-2022
(11-22-2022, 12:11 AM)Giants Wrote: Here come the judge…. (I figured we should get that tired cliche out of the way as quickly as possible).
Aaron Judge is in SF tonight and will meet with Zaidi tomorrow.
Be interesting to see when Judge signs. Is he going to lead the parade, given that he is the No 1 FA. Or, is he going to wait to get a feel for the market. Or at least see what Correa gets.
Big issue for Giants if they are truly in the hunt for both. I’m confident they won’t look to sign both. More of an either/or situation, I think.
If Judge seriously is considering SF, I think he gets out front. He’s the top of the market anyway.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 11-23-2022
(11-23-2022, 11:24 AM)lex24 Wrote:(11-22-2022, 12:11 AM)Giants Wrote: Here come the judge…. (I figured we should get that tired cliche out of the way as quickly as possible).
Aaron Judge is in SF tonight and will meet with Zaidi tomorrow.
Be interesting to see when Judge signs. Is he going to lead the parade, given that he is the No 1 FA. Or, is he going to wait to get a feel for the market. Or at least see what Correa gets.
Big issue for Giants if they are truly in the hunt for both. I’m confident they won’t look to sign both. More of an either/or situation, I think.
If Judge seriously is considering SF, I think he gets out front. He’s the top of the market anyway.
100% agree, and I suspect Farhan knows that he should get Judge to sign ASAP. If he can do that, that's a signal to other FAs that the Giants mean business. They currently have a negligible payroll, they are a big market team that has suffered diminished crowds over the last several years, and they don't have a Posey or a Lincecum or a Bumgarner or a Barry Bonds in terms of star power. And we need that star power, very badly...and need to surround that star with 3-5 other solid FAs.
I know we won 107 games year before last. That was a LONG time ago. We need local excitement. It's critical to get Judge, especially after misses on Harper and Stanton.
I'm not as insistent on a SS replacement, though it would be nice. Giants were slightly below average in OPS, slightly above average in runs scored (they got a little lucky), they were slightly better in runs allowed on the pitching side, and in fact were positive in WAR by pitching position...but negative by all other positions (except catcher, at 0.2 WAR). In other words, they need a heavy upgrade from top to bottom.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 11-23-2022
If one of Judge's criteria is team willing to do what it takes to win, it would make no sense for him to sign with the Giants until after the Giants actually make a splash signing before him.
Signing one of the top shortstops or re-signing Carlos Rodon would be a "show me" move that would demonstrate that commitment Judge wants to see.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 11-23-2022
(11-23-2022, 01:47 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If one of Judge's criteria is team willing to do what it takes to win, it would make no sense for him to sign with the Giants until after the Giants actually make a splash signing before him.
Signing one of the top shortstops or re-signing Carlos Rodon would be a "show me" move that would demonstrate that commitment Judge wants to see.
Judge is a smart guy. I am sure he and his agent raised this issue during their dinner conversation with Baer, Zaidi and Kapler. If he signs first, I think it would be an positive indicator of things to come.
Another note….
Bryce Harper underwent TJ surgery today. He hopes to return to DH duty by the All-Star break.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 11-23-2022
(11-23-2022, 01:47 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If one of Judge's criteria is team willing to do what it takes to win, it would make no sense for him to sign with the Giants until after the Giants actually make a splash signing before him.
Signing one of the top shortstops or re-signing Carlos Rodon would be a "show me" move that would demonstrate that commitment Judge wants to see.
Be thrilled if Giants signed Judge and one of the SS’s. But think it’s very unlikely. Love to be wrong on this .
(11-23-2022, 03:51 PM)Giants Wrote:(11-23-2022, 01:47 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If one of Judge's criteria is team willing to do what it takes to win, it would make no sense for him to sign with the Giants until after the Giants actually make a splash signing before him.
Signing one of the top shortstops or re-signing Carlos Rodon would be a "show me" move that would demonstrate that commitment Judge wants to see.
Judge is a smart guy. I am sure he and his agent raised this issue during their dinner conversation with Baer, Zaidi and Kapler. If he signs first, I think it would be an positive indicator of things to come.
Another note….
Bryce Harper underwent TJ surgery today. He hopes to return to DH duty by the All-Star break.
Bummer on Harper. His AB’s were can’t miss TV this postseason.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 11-23-2022
(11-23-2022, 07:22 PM)lex24 Wrote:(11-23-2022, 01:47 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If one of Judge's criteria is team willing to do what it takes to win, it would make no sense for him to sign with the Giants until after the Giants actually make a splash signing before him.
Signing one of the top shortstops or re-signing Carlos Rodon would be a "show me" move that would demonstrate that commitment Judge wants to see.
Be thrilled if Giants signed Judge and one of the SS’s. But think it’s very unlikely. Love to be wrong on this .
(11-23-2022, 03:51 PM)Giants Wrote:(11-23-2022, 01:47 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If one of Judge's criteria is team willing to do what it takes to win, it would make no sense for him to sign with the Giants until after the Giants actually make a splash signing before him.
Signing one of the top shortstops or re-signing Carlos Rodon would be a "show me" move that would demonstrate that commitment Judge wants to see.
Judge is a smart guy. I am sure he and his agent raised this issue during their dinner conversation with Baer, Zaidi and Kapler. If he signs first, I think it would be an positive indicator of things to come.
Another note….
Bryce Harper underwent TJ surgery today. He hopes to return to DH duty by the All-Star break.
Bummer on Harper. His AB’s were can’t miss TV this postseason.
Bummer. I missed them all. . . .
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 11-23-2022
Jeff Kent is perhaps the most underrated player of his era. .290/.356/.500/.855. 377 HRs. Most in history for 2nd baseman 1320 Runs. 1518 RBIs. He drove in over 100 runs 8 times. An RBI machine. One of the greatest hitting second baseman in the last 50 years. He was an average at best second baseman. Very limited range. But he turned the DP quite well. Had a strong arm.
He gets dinged unfairly because of the Bonds factor. No question he benefited tremendously from hitting before or after Bonds all those years. So, what. The slash line is his and his alone. And he continued to put up big numbers, particularly for a second baseman, after he left the Giants. He also gets hurt with the voters because he was an jerk. Petty baseball Hall of Fame voters crap.
Jeff Kent should be in the Hall of Fame. It’s his last year on the ballot. He’s never gotten close. That is a travesty.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Phogge - 11-24-2022
Some writers hold a grudge. So do some cameramen. F*** Kent.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 11-24-2022
Jeff Passan on The Michael Kay Show 11/23 said he would be shocked if Judge signed with the Giants.
I have never believed he would leave the Yankees and have seen nothing that gives me reason to think differently. I don't think Giants fans appreciate how much of a big deal being a Yankee is and just how badly the Yankees will be pilloried by fans and media if they are outspent by another team for Judge. And I don't see Judge taking less money to sign with the Giants UNLESS the Giants commit to spending on par with the Dodgers and Padres, something they haven't seemed willing to do. In some respects, Judge signing with the Dodgers would engender the worst possible reaction from Yankees fans and media, so I would give the Dodgers even smaller odds than the Giants to sign him.
But like Passan said he could be totally wrong and the Giants make Judge an offer he can't refuse that the Yankees can't justify, I could be just as wrong as Passan.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 11-24-2022
(11-23-2022, 09:36 PM)lex24 Wrote: Jeff Kent is perhaps the most underrated player of his era. .290/.356/.500/.855. 377 HRs. Most in history for 2nd baseman 1320 Runs. 1518 RBIs. He drove in over 100 runs 8 times. An RBI machine. One of the greatest hitting second baseman in the last 50 years. He was an average at best second baseman. Very limited range. But he turned the DP quite well. Had a strong arm.
He gets dinged unfairly because of the Bonds factor. No question he benefited tremendously from hitting before or after Bonds all those years. So, what. The slash line is his and his alone. And he continued to put up big numbers, particularly for a second baseman, after he left the Giants. He also gets hurt with the voters because he was an jerk. Petty baseball Hall of Fame voters crap.
Jeff Kent should be in the Hall of Fame. It’s his last year on the ballot. He’s never gotten close. That is a travesty.
My brother in law was a baseball player and was at Cal when Kent was there. His reputation as a jerk was well-founded.
Still, I agree completely, he should be in the HoF. I don't know that he benefited all that much by being around Bonds -- his SFG OPS was .903, but his Houston OPS was .870 and his LA Dodger OPS was .847...basically normal age-related declines. And at the same time, he thrived during the steroid era when he himself didn't do steroids. He was a very slightly below average 2nd baseman (-3 Rtot), but a slightly above average first baseman (+1 Rtot).
As for HoF arguments, there's 1/2 dozen HoF 2nd basemen with worse numbers, and there's only two candidates with better numbers that aren't yet in the Hall of Fame...Lou Whitaker and Willie Randolph. Kent is hamstrung by the fact that he didn't really accelerate until he got to the Giants. He was a good player in his 20s and great player in his 30s.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 08:24 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Jeff Passan on The Michael Kay Show 11/23 said he would be shocked if Judge signed with the Giants.
I have never believed he would leave the Yankees and have seen nothing that gives me reason to think differently. I don't think Giants fans appreciate how much of a big deal being a Yankee is and just how badly the Yankees will be pilloried by fans and media if they are outspent by another team for Judge. And I don't see Judge taking less money to sign with the Giants UNLESS the Giants commit to spending on par with the Dodgers and Padres, something they haven't seemed willing to do. In some respects, Judge signing with the Dodgers would engender the worst possible reaction from Yankees fans and media, so I would give the Dodgers even smaller odds than the Giants to sign him.
But like Passan said he could be totally wrong and the Giants make Judge an offer he can't refuse that the Yankees can't justify, I could be just as wrong as Passan.
Most baseball fans certainly understand the Yankee aura and allure. By far the most storied franchise in American professional sports. And NY is it’s own draw. But it also it’s own drawback.
To get Judge the Giants will probably need to exceed the Yankees’ offer. What none of us know and what none of the pundits know is what is in Judge’s heart. He is going to be exceedingly rich wherever he signs. And he appears to be a thoughtful man. So, what other factors are at play?
Giants are also a very storied franchise. One he rooted for growing up
He’s local. Family and friends will be able to attend more games
A less “difficult “ crowd. Yankee fans actually booed Judge in ALCS.
Not quite the pressure cooker of NY.
Bay Area vs NYC.
Jon Moroni reported he’d decide within 2 weeks. Hopefully, he’s right. I’d put odds at about 60-40 Yankees v Giants. And I still have concerns of Dodgers making a last ditch offer that blows the others out of the water. Maybe a 20% chance.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 08:24 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Jeff Passan on The Michael Kay Show 11/23 said he would be shocked if Judge signed with the Giants.
I have never believed he would leave the Yankees and have seen nothing that gives me reason to think differently. I don't think Giants fans appreciate how much of a big deal being a Yankee is and just how badly the Yankees will be pilloried by fans and media if they are outspent by another team for Judge. And I don't see Judge taking less money to sign with the Giants UNLESS the Giants commit to spending on par with the Dodgers and Padres, something they haven't seemed willing to do. In some respects, Judge signing with the Dodgers would engender the worst possible reaction from Yankees fans and media, so I would give the Dodgers even smaller odds than the Giants to sign him.
But like Passan said he could be totally wrong and the Giants make Judge an offer he can't refuse that the Yankees can't justify, I could be just as wrong as Passan.
No need to be patronizing, heck, anyone who follows baseball closely knows the power of the Yankees brand. While I don’t think he will leave NY, it is fun to speculate about his other options.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 09:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: Bay Area vs NYC.
Is there an attraction to either these days?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 09:41 AM)Mick Wrote:(11-23-2022, 09:36 PM)lex24 Wrote: Jeff Kent is perhaps the most underrated player of his era. .290/.356/.500/.855. 377 HRs. Most in history for 2nd baseman 1320 Runs. 1518 RBIs. He drove in over 100 runs 8 times. An RBI machine. One of the greatest hitting second baseman in the last 50 years. He was an average at best second baseman. Very limited range. But he turned the DP quite well. Had a strong arm.
He gets dinged unfairly because of the Bonds factor. No question he benefited tremendously from hitting before or after Bonds all those years. So, what. The slash line is his and his alone. And he continued to put up big numbers, particularly for a second baseman, after he left the Giants. He also gets hurt with the voters because he was an jerk. Petty baseball Hall of Fame voters crap.
Jeff Kent should be in the Hall of Fame. It’s his last year on the ballot. He’s never gotten close. That is a travesty.
My brother in law was a baseball player and was at Cal when Kent was there. His reputation as a jerk was well-founded.
Still, I agree completely, he should be in the HoF. I don't know that he benefited all that much by being around Bonds -- his SFG OPS was .903, but his Houston OPS was .870 and his LA Dodger OPS was .847...basically normal age-related declines. And at the same time, he thrived during the steroid era when he himself didn't do steroids. He was a very slightly below average 2nd baseman (-3 Rtot), but a slightly above average first baseman (+1 Rtot).
As for HoF arguments, there's 1/2 dozen HoF 2nd basemen with worse numbers, and there's only two candidates with better numbers that aren't yet in the Hall of Fame...Lou Whitaker and Willie Randolph. Kent is hamstrung by the fact that he didn't really accelerate until he got to the Giants. He was a good player in his 20s and great player in his 30s.
Kents offensive numbers are better than either Whitaker or Randolph. In fact Randolph’s aren’t close. Kent’s numbers are also better than Sandberg’s and Alomars. All are better defensively. Randolph and Alomar significantly. For 9 years Kent 28 HRs 110 RBIs 93 runs. His OBP was .860 or above in 8 of those 9. With a low of .795 and a high of 1.021.
And, of course, for players that played 2/3rds of their games at 2b he has the most HR’s in history.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Phogge - 11-24-2022
Yep qualified on stats. Not on personality. Not saying that SHOULD be taken into account but for some it does. He was almost as bad a guy as Bonds and that is saying something.
Question Lex. You stood by Harballs on the sideline. He should be a shoo in for the CFHOF as a coach, maybe as a player. Would you vote for him?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 10:47 AM)Phogge Wrote: Yep qualified on stats. Not on personality. Not saying that SHOULD be taken into account but for some it does. He was almost as bad a guy as Bonds and that is saying something.
Question Lex. You stood by Harballs on the sideline. He should be a shoo in for the CFHOF as a coach, maybe as a player. Would you vote for him?
If he truly has the credentials, of course. I don’t know enough about the football Hall of Fame credentials to make that call. But I certainly wouldn’t vote against him for any type of “personality“ issue. To me that’s completely irrelevant. With very very limited exceptions. Like major felonies or betting on your own games.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - old spanish trail - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 10:05 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(11-24-2022, 09:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: Bay Area vs NYC.
Is there an attraction to either these days?
Maybe not for you. But, for me, absolutely.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 02:19 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:(11-24-2022, 10:05 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(11-24-2022, 09:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: Bay Area vs NYC.
Is there an attraction to either these days?
Maybe not for you. But, for me, absolutely.
Me, also
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Phogge - 11-24-2022
CI said it succinctly, "I'd rather be in Philadelphia."
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 06:57 PM)lex24 Wrote:(11-24-2022, 02:19 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:(11-24-2022, 10:05 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(11-24-2022, 09:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: Bay Area vs NYC.
Is there an attraction to either these days?
Maybe not for you. But, for me, absolutely.
Me, also
And me…