Stanford to the ACC? - Printable Version
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RE: Stanford to the ACC? - TriangleTree - 08-09-2023
Whatever happens, I’ve gained a lot of respect for ND and am much more likely to root for them in the future.
They are the only party in this whole thing that seems to be thinking about more than just themselves.
Much respect
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - CardInDSM - 08-09-2023
While the focus has been understandably been on kickoff times for away games, moving to the ACC could also be detrimental with respect to home games. The recent west coast defections to the Big Ten/Fox left ESPN with zero inventory in the Pacific time zone. (I understand that Arizona doesn't observe daylight savings, but that's only two schools that are considered ESPN inventory). Recent history suggests that all home games would kickoff at 7pm or later. (Of Stanford's seven games on Fox or ESPN last season, only one kicked off prior to 7pm.) Perhaps that would be tempered by hosting east coast schools, but there's no reason to believe ESPN would be altruistic and give up their "4th time slot".
There's a real chance that an ACC move could result in 9am/10am road games and 7pm/8pm home games. It would be frustrating to be a part of coast-to-coast conference and have virtually all of the games played at a time when entire time zones are either eating breakfast or fast asleep.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - ColoradoTree - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 02:51 PM)CardInDSM Wrote: While the focus has been understandably been on kickoff times for away games, moving to the ACC could also be detrimental with respect to home games. The recent west coast defections to the Big Ten/Fox left ESPN with zero inventory in the Pacific time zone. (I understand that Arizona doesn't observe daylight savings, but that's only two schools that are considered ESPN inventory). Recent history suggests that all home games would kickoff at 7pm or later. (Of Stanford's seven games on Fox or ESPN last season, only one kicked off prior to 7pm.) Perhaps that would be tempered by hosting east coast schools, but there's no reason to believe ESPN would be altruistic and give up their "4th time slot".
There's a real chance that an ACC move could result in 9am/10am road games and 7pm/8pm home games. It would be frustrating to be a part of coast-to-coast conference and have virtually all of the games played at a time when entire time zones are either eating breakfast or fast asleep.
Oh, we'd be playing late night games if we were in the Big Ten, too. I think Oregon and Washington are underestimating how many of their home games will now be in that late window. USC might be mostly spared on that front, but that'll be UCLA's lot in life, too. Lots and lots of Pac-12 after dark on the way, just formally in other conferences.
And yeah, as you allude to, the Arizona schools are sort of ESPN inventory, too. (As I understand it, the Big 12 deal sees more than 60% of the inventory going to ESPN.) So, we might get the occasional afternoon home game if ESPN would rather see, say, ASU-Baylor on ESPN and Cal-Wake Forest on ESPN2 in the late night slot.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - TriangleTree - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 02:51 PM)CardInDSM Wrote: While the focus has been understandably been on kickoff times for away games, moving to the ACC could also be detrimental with respect to home games. The recent west coast defections to the Big Ten/Fox left ESPN with zero inventory in the Pacific time zone. (I understand that Arizona doesn't observe daylight savings, but that's only two schools that are considered ESPN inventory). Recent history suggests that all home games would kickoff at 7pm or later. (Of Stanford's seven games on Fox or ESPN last season, only one kicked off prior to 7pm.) Perhaps that would be tempered by hosting east coast schools, but there's no reason to believe ESPN would be altruistic and give up their "4th time slot".
There's a real chance that an ACC move could result in 9am/10am road games and 7pm/8pm home games. It would be frustrating to be a part of coast-to-coast conference and have virtually all of the games played at a time when entire time zones are either eating breakfast or fast asleep.
Agree 100%, and we have USC/LA and Fox sewer rats to thank for that.
ACC is far from ideal from a geography perspective, but it’s likely the best solution until sense again prevails.
I hope the rumor posted before materializes, especially if it includes two or three ACC games a year for the non FB/BB teams.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - StanfordMatt - 08-09-2023
Great news, everyone! It turns out that ACC travel isn't nearly as bad as initial reports suggested. Our fearless leader to the rescue once again.
[tweet]
https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1688760491500601345
[/tweet]
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - 2006alum - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 03:19 PM)StanfordMatt Wrote: Great news, everyone! It turns out that ACC travel isn't nearly as bad as initial reports suggested. Our fearless leader to the rescue once again.
[tweet]
https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1688760491500601345
[/tweet]
Thanks for that. Maybe first time I've had a laugh since this realignment fiasco began last week.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Mick - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 12:55 PM)Giants Wrote: Also, the latest gossip - Stanford/Cal football and M/W hoops to ACC. All other sports to WCC.
Ironically, Pac-12 hoops was ranked 8th and WCC hoops were ranked 9th last year. ACC hoops were ranked #6. Stanford bball might suffer, were they to join the ACC vs. the WCC, especially given the travel requirements. The WCC has three teams in the SFBA and two in SoCal.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - ColoradoTree - 08-09-2023
What's the source of this football/BB to ACC, everything else to the WCC rumor? I looked over X/Twitter and couldn't find anything about that specific option.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - TriangleTree - 08-09-2023
Quote:Thanks for that. Maybe first time I've had a laugh since this realignment fiasco began last week.
Haha, will definitely be sharing this one
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Mick - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 03:04 PM)ColoradoTree Wrote: Oh, we'd be playing late night games if we were in the Big Ten, too. I think Oregon and Washington are underestimating how many of their home games will now be in that late window. USC might be mostly spared on that front, but that'll be UCLA's lot in life, too. Lots and lots of Pac-12 after dark on the way, just formally in other conferences.
It's been a bit, but I seem to recall that high school games were played mainly on Friday nights...that might not actually be the world's worst thing for Stanford home games. But away games at 10 a.m. body clock time will absolutely SUCK.
In 2015, the Giants visited the Washington Nationals on the 4th of July, and to clear the stadium in advance of the fireworks that night, they changed the game time to 11:30 a.m. My youngest had an internship in DC, and I was working in DC, so we went to see the game, which was the first of a road trip for the Giants. Bumgarner had the start and would be pitching at 8:30 a.m. body clock time. Sure enough, he gave up two home runs, a double and a single in his first six pitches.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - jacket3ree - 08-09-2023
Yes! Thanks Stanford Matt for finding that. I saw it somewhere, laughed out loud, and promptly forgot where I saw it.
For those looking for a potential future revenge tour list, one way or the other, sources (which are plural and could include some bloke in a basement in South Carolina that everyone parrots) say the ACC might be breaking down like this for Stanford and Cal, although I'm not sure how SMU is being viewed other than paying their own way in. It needs to be a 3/4 majority, so with Notre Dame, 12 votes win entry. It must be far enough along, and Stanford and Cal must be interested in this enough.
For
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Against
Clemson
Florida State
North Carolina
On the Fence or Don't Know Lean
Miami
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
If only one of the don't know/fence dwellers comes out against, it's a win. If two do, or anyone else switches, Stanford and Cal need to look elsewhere for now.
This is as of 15:44 Wednesday August 9. This message will self-destruct in 15 seconds.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - ADPinWDC - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 03:24 PM)2006alum Wrote:(08-09-2023, 03:19 PM)StanfordMatt Wrote: Great news, everyone! It turns out that ACC travel isn't nearly as bad as initial reports suggested. Our fearless leader to the rescue once again.
[tweet]
https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1688760491500601345
[/tweet]
Thanks for that. Maybe first time I've had a laugh since this realignment fiasco began last week.
Magnificently HILARIOUS. Posted to my class page on FBook. NAILED IT!
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - BayAreaCardinal - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 11:11 AM)msqueri Wrote: Sadly I think it's wishful thinking to suggest that the travel issues can be substantially managed. We can try to mitigate them but it's unavoidable that it would be a massive additive cost to the athletic department and that it would be perennial, structural physical handicap for the athletes.
The body clock is the body clock. Human bodies and when in the day they're most ready to play football aren't things we can cheat. Something our great, good, mediocre, and bad coaches have in common is that they suck playing east. Let's go to the tape (times listed all Pacific):
1995 East Carolina (9am) - loss
1996 Wisconsin (9:30am) - loss
1996 Michigan State (11am) - win
1998 Notre Dame (11:30am) - loss
1999 Texas (9am) - loss
2000 Notre Dame (11:30am) - loss
2002 Boston College (12:30pm) - loss
2002 Notre Dame (10:30am) - loss
2004 Notre Dame (11:30am) - loss
2005 Navy (3pm) - eeked out a lethargic win, thank goodness it was so luckily late in the day
2006 Notre Dame (11:30am) - loss
2008 TCU (10am) - loss
2008 Notre Dame (11:30am) - loss
2009 Wake Forest (9am) - loss
2009 Oklahoma (11am) - loss
2010 Notre Dame (12:30pm) - win, and note that this is a somewhat later start time than previously in South Bend
2010 Virginia Tech (5pm) - win, and note that this is a MUCH later start time than the others
2011 Duke (12:30pm) - win, and note that it's at least afternoon
2012 Notre Dame (12:30pm) - loss
2013 Army (9am) - win, albeit lethargic against an insanely outgunned service academy
2014 Notre Dame (12:30pm) - loss
2015 Northwestern (9am) - loss
2016 Notre Dame (4:30pm) - win, and note the MUCH later start time than any other previous game in South Bend
2016 North Carolina (11am) - win, albeit lethargic
2017 TCU (6pm) - loss
2018 Notre Dame (4:30pm) - loss
2018 Pitt (11am) - win
2019 UCF (12:30pm) - loss
2021 Vanderbilt (5pm) - win, and note that this is a MUCH later start time than the others and against a terrible team
2022 Notre Dame (4:30pm)- win, and note the MUCH later start time than losses in South Bend
And that's to say nothing of football and basketball struggling even in Utah and Colorado.
It is what it is. I'm not saying this to criticize our administration. They didn't create time zones. Sometimes you have to play east, and in our current situation we may have to affiliate with a conference that will require a lot of travel east. As somebody who lives back east I love the chance to go to these games. I went to 13 of these in a row. It's good for the players, fans, and recruiting to not cloister ourselves in Palo Alto. But reality is reality. These games are extremely hard.
Shaw was actually really great at this, relatively speaking. Willingham was 1-5. Teevens was 0-3. Harris was 1-1 but never won in the morning. Harbaugh was 2-4 and never won in the morning. Shaw ended up 7-5 and had numerous wins in the morning. [I didn't include neutral site games here and I believe Shaw went 1-2 in neutral site morning games] While Shaw's track record is an encouraging sign that things can be done to give ourselves a fighting chance, note that 7-5 in road games out east compares extremely unfavorably to his 89-49 record in all other games combined.
This is what I can't get past. We would be consigning our players to a permanent, significant physical handicap that would make it very hard to field a .500 team.
Really have to make Big 10 work. That would be worse travel than now, but so much more manageable with 4-5 other former Pac-12 teams, and generally less far east for the rest too.
The 2018 game against Pitt was not on the east coast. It was the Sun Bowl played in El Paso, TX, which is Mountain Time.
On a side note, Pitt alumnus here. Love the Panthers, but picking up on the Cardinal too because my wife's family lives in the Bay Area... also grew up a SF Giants and 49ers fan... We live in the eastern time zone, but make at least one trip a year to the west coast/Bay Area. I'd LOVE for Stanford (and Cal) to pick the ACC. I understand the travel, but take that away, and I think the move makes sense financially if the league will give SU and Cal equal revenue cuts..
Besides, Stanford makes at least one trip to the eastern time zone every other year playing Notre Dame. It was already mentioned, but Stanford can schedule non-conference games against local or west coast opponents, maybe even former PAC-12 schools...
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - TooMuchTV - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 03:45 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: Yes! Thanks Stanford Matt for finding that. I saw it somewhere, laughed out loud, and promptly forgot where I saw it.
For those looking for a potential future revenge tour list, one way or the other, sources (which are plural and could include some bloke in a basement in South Carolina that everyone parrots) say the ACC might be breaking down like this for Stanford and Cal, although I'm not sure how SMU is being viewed other than paying their own way in. It needs to be a 3/4 majority, so with Notre Dame, 12 votes win entry. It must be far enough along, and Stanford and Cal must be interested in this enough.
For
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Against
Clemson
Florida State
North Carolina
On the Fence or Don't Know Lean
Miami
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
If only one of the don't know/fence dwellers comes out against, it's a win. If two do, or anyone else switches, Stanford and Cal need to look elsewhere for now.
This is as of 15:44 Wednesday August 9. This message will self-destruct in 15 seconds.
By my count, none of the fence dwellers can come out against.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - ADPinWDC - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 02:43 PM)paloalto Wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI/status/1689376957228527616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1689376957228527616%7Ctwgr%5E86eaf53cb00eae00773bfbe989dcd3028e3f4604%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fcollege%2Fgeorgiatech%2Ffootball%2Fconference-realignment-notre-dame-pushing-hard-for-acc-to-add-cal-and-stanford[/tweet]
YES. The NDAM AD (Swarbrick) is a Stanford Law School Alum (from 70s). Very bright, broadly respected.
... you do not see NDAM suffering this mess. He is a prime mover in negotiations, but likely cannot quite get to 12 votes in ACC yet.
He already announced his retirement for June 2024, and his replacement Bevaqua is already on campus learning the ropes.
So Swarbrick also wields maximum latitude -- he cannot be threatened by anyone.
There are NO ideal solutions remaining. ACC gives us a lot of new rivalries with very solid schools, unlike MWC or Big12.
I believe that travel to B1G would be WORSE plus more snow dates for football. Let USC & UCLA have fun with that.
Some innovative options for Olympic sports might work, like mid-season mini-tournaments in a single "POD" location as during pandemic.
Think differently. Pursue innovative options. The 20th Century is gone.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - jacket3ree - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 03:45 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: Yes! Thanks Stanford Matt for finding that. I saw it somewhere, laughed out loud, and promptly forgot where I saw it.
For those looking for a potential future revenge tour list, one way or the other, sources (which are plural and could include some bloke in a basement in South Carolina that everyone parrots) say the ACC might be breaking down like this for Stanford and Cal, although I'm not sure how SMU is being viewed other than paying their own way in. It needs to be a 3/4 majority, so with Notre Dame, 12 votes win entry. It must be far enough along, and Stanford and Cal must be interested in this enough; but who knows?
For
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Against
Clemson
Florida State
North Carolina
On the Fence or Don't Know Lean
Miami
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
If only one of the don't know/fence dwellers comes out against, it's a win. If two do, or anyone else switches, Stanford and Cal need to look elsewhere for now.
This is as of 15:44 Wednesday August 9. This message will self-destruct in 15 seconds.
Oh shoot. Just realized, that's the "magnificent seven" who are thinking of leaving.
Let 'em, take the others and form a tri-coastal conference comprised of:
Pacific Coast
California
Fresno State
Hawaii
Oregon State
San Diego State
San Jose State
Stanford
Washington State
Atlantic Coast
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Gulf Coast
Rice
Southern Methodist
Southern Mississippi
Texas Christian (we mean business stealing from a P4 and for TCUFrog)
Texas San Antonio
Troy (back to playing the Trojans)
Tulane
Tulsa
Draw down Stanford's endowment from $36.1B to $35B and make it happen. Also OK starting off bicoastal first. Or "alive". Frankly I'm OK just being in some form of that Pacific Division.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - BayAreaCardinal - 08-09-2023
Also with regards to geography, USC and UCLA were going to be members of the Big Ten even before Oregon and Washington decided to move. So that would still be a case where travel is not preventing them from moving leagues.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - 2006alum - 08-09-2023
Not so fast, says the ACC:
Sources: Cal, Stanford to ACC hits 'significant roadblocks'
Those roadblocks presumably include the fact that Stanford and Cal are about as far from the "Atlantic" as one can get within the contiguous United States...
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - chrisk - 08-09-2023
(08-09-2023, 07:24 PM)2006alum Wrote: Not so fast, says the ACC:
Sources: Cal, Stanford to ACC hits 'significant roadblocks'
Those roadblocks presumably include the fact that Stanford and Cal are about as far from the "Atlantic" as one can get within the contiguous United States...
A significant roadblock which is more or less related to the geographic issue is that 12 votes are required to vote in Staford and Cal. Without a financial boost from the move, it is easy to imagine there would be more than 3 holdouts.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - burger - 08-09-2023
Well, if the ACC won't take us, the AAC would be more than happy: https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/smu-mustangs/2023/08/09/aac-a-target-for-expansion-poachers-could-join-conference-realignment-race/
It looks like their media deal pays about twice what the MWC does--8 million vs 4+ million.