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RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 09-30-2023
(09-30-2023, 02:09 PM)Giants Wrote: Forget the winning % of .515.
There is a certain (beloved) Hall of Fame-bound manager who has a career mark of .499
Speaking of The Athletic, the article about the dysfunction in San Diego only reinforced my opinion that Melvin is a great manager.
The beloved Hall of Fame bound manager with the sub-.500 career mark couldn't coach this team either, and none of Kapler's six seasons managing were as bad as any of Bochy's last three seasons or Bochy's worst 11 seasons, come to think of it. Kapler's worst season was still better than eight of BoMel's 20 seasons.
Try as I might to forget BoMel's managerial winning % of .515, I really can't forget his 2023 .500 winning percentage with eight multiple-All-Star team players, three more All Stars, a Gold Glove center fielder, a Cy Young pitcher, another pitcher who was 24-6 over the last two years and another pitcher who had been on the all-star team and probably the best closer in baseball. How does Bob Melvin have that talent and finish .500? He finished first in the division four times in 20 years of managing...
Look, I liked the guy when he was a mediocre catcher for the Giants. He's a local guy, born in Palo Alto, went to Menlo Atherton and Canada JC in Redwood City. And -- of course -- Cal. All that's great. And maybe the Giants can't find anyone better, but geez...BoMel is the best that they can do?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 09-30-2023
Hmmm…
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - McKenwood - 09-30-2023
(09-30-2023, 05:24 PM)Giants Wrote: Hmmm…
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Bob Melvin has been a nice guy to Bay Area media for a long time so that is why he gets traction as a managerial candidate.
Giants are in a tough spot. Given that their roster next year may be younger they need someone who will resonate with that group. But given it is potentially FZ's last year he will probably reach for an experienced name.
Only 2-3 position players should have security for places next year. Wade, Estrada and Bailey with Flores as DH only. Slater/Yaz are classic Giant underachievers in a position that demands offensive production.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 09-30-2023
(09-30-2023, 03:21 PM)Mick Wrote:(09-30-2023, 02:09 PM)Giants Wrote: Forget the winning % of .515.
There is a certain (beloved) Hall of Fame-bound manager who has a career mark of .499
Speaking of The Athletic, the article about the dysfunction in San Diego only reinforced my opinion that Melvin is a great manager.
The beloved Hall of Fame bound manager with the sub-.500 career mark couldn't coach this team either, and none of Kapler's six seasons managing were as bad as any of Bochy's last three seasons or Bochy's worst 11 seasons, come to think of it. Kapler's worst season was still better than eight of BoMel's 20 seasons.
Try as I might to forget BoMel's managerial winning % of .515, I really can't forget his 2023 .500 winning percentage with eight multiple-All-Star team players, three more All Stars, a Gold Glove center fielder, a Cy Young pitcher, another pitcher who was 24-6 over the last two years and another pitcher who had been on the all-star team and probably the best closer in baseball. How does Bob Melvin have that talent and finish .500? He finished first in the division four times in 20 years of managing...
Look, I liked the guy when he was a mediocre catcher for the Giants. He's a local guy, born in Palo Alto, went to Menlo Atherton and Canada JC in Redwood City. And -- of course -- Cal. All that's great. And maybe the Giants can't find anyone better, but geez...BoMel is the best that they can do?
I don't have a horse in this race, but anybody who could have a positive record in Oakland these days is a miracle worker. . . .
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 09-30-2023
Giants beat the Dodgers, 2-1. Bailey threw out a runner at second for the final out.
Giants are now 6-6 against the Dodgers this season. Tomorrow's the last game of their season.
(09-30-2023, 05:24 PM)Giants Wrote: Hmmm…
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Tell you what. I don't give a rip about the manager. I want a near-HoF combination up the middle; catcher, shortstop, 2nd baseman and center fielder. I want a world class closer and five really strong starters. I want a club president/GM who can deliver those bodies, and over six years, he should be able to do that.
Actually...let me walk that back a bit, and I'll say this...if Kapler had the talent that the Padres did, he'd win the NL pennant. At least.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 09-30-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1696130207' Wrote: 1696130207[/url]']
Giants beat the Dodgers, 2-1. Bailey threw out a runner at second for the final out.
Giants are now 6-6 against the Dodgers this season. Tomorrow's the last game of their season.
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1696119859' Wrote: 1696119859[/url]']
Hmmm…
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Tell you what. I don't give a rip about the manager. I want a near-HoF combination up the middle; catcher, shortstop, 2nd baseman and center fielder. I want a world class closer and five really strong starters. I want a club president/GM who can deliver those bodies, and over six years, he should be able to do that.
Actually...let me walk that back a bit, and I'll say this...if Kapler had the talent that the Padres did, he'd win the NL pennant. At least.
I don’t think John McGraw could have done any better in San Diego.
I want nothing to do with an Operations boss who thinks you can win by just throwing money on the diamond. Great leaders put their staff in a position to be successful. Preller did the contrary. He put Melvin in a position where he was sure to fail. The third highest payroll in the game and no post season. Quite frankly, Preller should be fired. Instead, I’m afraid Melvin may be the scapegoat.
On that note, I’ll now just sit back and wait for the post season to begin to unfold. Enough on this topic…..
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 10-01-2023
Giants Wrote:Hmmm…Melvin also took the Pads to NLCS in ‘22. Guess that doesn’t count.
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Mick Wrote:Giants beat the Dodgers, 2-1. Bailey threw out a runner at second for the final out.“Actually...let me walk that back a bit, and I'll say this...if Kapler had the talent that the Padres did, he'd win the NL pennant. At least.”
Giants are now 6-6 against the Dodgers this season. Tomorrow's the last game of their season.
Giants Wrote:Hmmm…
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Tell you what. I don't give a rip about the manager. I want a near-HoF combination up the middle; catcher, shortstop, 2nd baseman and center fielder. I want a world class closer and five really strong starters. I want a club president/GM who can deliver those bodies, and over six years, he should be able to do that.
Actually...let me walk that back a bit, and I'll say this...if Kapler had the talent that the Padres did, he'd win the NL pennant. At least.
I always love such comments cause, of course, they can be neither proven nor disproven.
I will say this, Kapler (twice) has been fired seemingly in part due to his inability to hold the clubhouse. In part there has been emphasis on his “hands off” approach. In SD, I think that group would have eat him for lunch. Which, of course, is also unprovable etc.
But since we’ve”pushed” on this years Giants bet, I’ll throw out another. Kapler will not get a job as a manager at any time in next two years. That’s through ‘25 season. Bottle of Red. You on?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 10-01-2023
(10-01-2023, 08:50 AM)lex24 Wrote:If he acted the same in San Diego as he did in SF, you're right, they'd eat him for lunch. You're talking about every single player either being a star or having star seasons in their immediate background. I think Kapler would have acted differently with a team laden with talent, as opposed to a team bereft of talent, with players bought by management who couldn't play.(10-01-2023, 08:50 AM)lex24 Wrote:Giants Wrote:Hmmm…Melvin also took the Pads to NLCS in ‘22. Guess that doesn’t count.
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Mick Wrote:Giants beat the Dodgers, 2-1. Bailey threw out a runner at second for the final out.
Giants are now 6-6 against the Dodgers this season. Tomorrow's the last game of their season.
[quote=Giants]
Hmmm…
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Tell you what. I don't give a rip about the manager. I want a near-HoF combination up the middle; catcher, shortstop, 2nd baseman and center fielder. I want a world class closer and five really strong starters. I want a club president/GM who can deliver those bodies, and over six years, he should be able to do that.
Actually...let me walk that back a bit, and I'll say this...if Kapler had the talent that the Padres did, he'd win the NL pennant. At least.
I always love such comments cause, of course, they can be neither proven nor disproven. I will say this, Kapler (twice) has been fired seemingly in part due to his inability to hold the clubhouse. In part there has been emphasis on his “hands off” approach. In SD, I think that group would have eat him for lunch. Which, of course, is also unprovable etc.
But since we’ve”pushed” on this years Giants bet, I’ll throw out another. Kapler will not get a job as a manager at any time in next two years. That’s through ‘25 season. Bottle of Red. You on?
I'll pass on the bet. It has nothing to do with Kapler's skills as a manager. For good or ill, whether it's his fault or not, Kapler's reputation is officially poison. 2021 is a looooong time ago. No one cares that Posey and his pitching coach lead didn't participate in 2020 and they missed the playoffs by a game, no one cares that Kapler's team won 107 games, and no one cares that he took an untalented bunch who couldn't field or hit and won almost half their games.
Next year will be interesting. They'll need a miracle worker. I strongly suspect they'll miss out on Ohtani and Bellinger. They'll need to promote all of those rookies and hope that they don't have sophomore slumps and instead have sophomore year boosters like Posey did. Perhaps that will happen. Perhaps Schmitt will learn to hit, they'll deal Bart and other prospects for a real player or two. Maybe Yaz and Slater will effectively platoon. Maybe they'll have five effective starters. Right now, the Giants have the 24th ranked OPS in the majors and 23rd most runs per game. They have the 4th best FIP, the 11th best WHIP, and 15th best ERA+. Their Rtot is 25th best in the majors, their fielding percentage is dead last. They stole the fewest bases in MLB. They had the second fewest triples in MLB in a ballpark with "Triples Alley." Their hitters struck out the seventh most and were tied for the third worst team batting average.
It's a minor miracle that they're only a few games below .500. I'm resting my hopes on two notions:
1) That 2023's failure was as improbable as 2021's success, a perfect storm of awfulness, and
2) That all of those rookies will gel into an MLB masterpiece. That Bailey will be Freehan reincarnated. That the 21 year olds (Matos, Luciano and Harrison) are battle ready in six months. That Ramos, Meckler, Schmitt, Fitzgerald and Sabol all shock to the upside. That they deal Bart and Villar. That veterans Flores, Estrada, and Wade have career years. That JD Davis can sustain his spring success and Pederson learns how to turn down donuts, beer, chips, candy and fast food -- or better yet, leaves. That Slater and Yastrzemski are fully healthy and return to form. That Haniger gets healthy. That the expensive contracts (Conforto, Manaea, Stripling, Crawford, Pederson, DeSclafani, DeJong) all opt out or otherwise leave. That they find a remarkable starting five, hopefully among Webb, Cobb, Harrison, Winn, and Beck. That their relievers (Doval, Walker, Rogers, Rogers, Junis, Wood, Alexander, Brebbia) are and remain effective.
Not holding my breath, though. I'll watch Kyle Harrison pitch against the Dodgers in the season finale today.
I do have one question: after a very successful 2021, the Giants lost head of pitching (Brian Bannister, this year) and Ethan Katz (last year), who left for the White Sox and they lost Donnie Ecker (hitting coach) to the Rangers...interestingly, to become their bench coach and offensive coordinator. Ecker's Giants were sixth in the NL in runs per game in 2021, and the Rangers were 28th. Last year, the Rangers were 12th, and this year, the Rangers were 3rd.
Why couldn't we keep Katz, Bannister and Ecker?
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 10-01-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1696179433' Wrote: 1696179433[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1696175437' Wrote: 1696175437[/url]']If he acted the same in San Diego as he did in SF, you're right, they'd eat him for lunch. You're talking about every single player either being a star or having star seasons in their immediate background. I think Kapler would have acted differently with a team laden with talent, as opposed to a team bereft of talent, with players bought by management who couldn't play.
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1696175437' Wrote: 1696175437[/url]']
Giants Wrote:Hmmm…Melvin also took the Pads to NLCS in ‘22. Guess that doesn’t count.
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Mick Wrote:Giants beat the Dodgers, 2-1. Bailey threw out a runner at second for the final out.
Giants are now 6-6 against the Dodgers this season. Tomorrow's the last game of their season.
[quote=Giants]
Hmmm…
I suspect that you also wouldn’t want a guy with a 12 year record of 951-975 (.494) and a post season mark of 8-16 during that tenure.
Looking strictly at the numbers you would walk away unimpressed from that candidate…
OTOH, you might think there is a lot more to the candidate than the numbers. You might dig into the story behind the numbers. And you might see something that resonates. Something that you think might unlock the potential of your team. Heck, you might even take a flyer on the guy (and then watch him hoist not just one or two but three trophies). Well done, you made the right choice.
I’m not suggesting that Melvin will lead SF to three trophies in five years but I would suggest there is a lot more to it than simple numbers. All things considered, I can think of no other candidate that is on the market who has a better track record than Melvin. I hope SD lets him go….
Tell you what. I don't give a rip about the manager. I want a near-HoF combination up the middle; catcher, shortstop, 2nd baseman and center fielder. I want a world class closer and five really strong starters. I want a club president/GM who can deliver those bodies, and over six years, he should be able to do that.
Actually...let me walk that back a bit, and I'll say this...if Kapler had the talent that the Padres did, he'd win the NL pennant. At least.
I always love such comments cause, of course, they can be neither proven nor disproven. I will say this, Kapler (twice) has been fired seemingly in part due to his inability to hold the clubhouse. In part there has been emphasis on his “hands off” approach. In SD, I think that group would have eat him for lunch. Which, of course, is also unprovable etc.
But since we’ve”pushed” on this years Giants bet, I’ll throw out another. Kapler will not get a job as a manager at any time in next two years. That’s through ‘25 season. Bottle of Red. You on?
I'll pass on the bet. It has nothing to do with Kapler's skills as a manager. For good or ill, whether it's his fault or not, Kapler's reputation is officially poison. 2021 is a looooong time ago. No one cares that Posey and his pitching coach lead didn't participate in 2020 and they missed the playoffs by a game, no one cares that Kapler's team won 107 games, and no one cares that he took an untalented bunch who couldn't field or hit and won almost half their games.
Next year will be interesting. They'll need a miracle worker. I strongly suspect they'll miss out on Ohtani and Bellinger. They'll need to promote all of those rookies and hope that they don't have sophomore slumps and instead have sophomore year boosters like Posey did. Perhaps that will happen. Perhaps Schmitt will learn to hit, they'll deal Bart and other prospects for a real player or two. Maybe Yaz and Slater will effectively platoon. Maybe they'll have five effective starters. Right now, the Giants have the 24th ranked OPS in the majors and 23rd most runs per game. They have the 4th best FIP, the 11th best WHIP, and 15th best ERA+. Their Rtot is 25th best in the majors, their fielding percentage is dead last. They stole the fewest bases in MLB. They had the second fewest triples in MLB in a ballpark with "Triples Alley." Their hitters struck out the seventh most and were tied for the third worst team batting average.
It's a minor miracle that they're only a few games below .500. I'm resting my hopes on two notions:
1) That 2023's failure was as improbable as 2021's success, a perfect storm of awfulness, and
2) That all of those rookies will gel into an MLB masterpiece. That Bailey will be Freehan reincarnated. That the 21 year olds (Matos, Luciano and Harrison) are battle ready in six months. That Ramos, Meckler, Schmitt, Fitzgerald and Sabol all shock to the upside. That they deal Bart and Villar. That veterans Flores, Estrada, and Wade have career years. That JD Davis can sustain his spring success and Pederson learns how to turn down donuts, beer, chips, candy and fast food -- or better yet, leaves. That Slater and Yastrzemski are fully healthy and return to form. That Haniger gets healthy. That the expensive contracts (Conforto, Manaea, Stripling, Crawford, Pederson, DeSclafani, DeJong) all opt out or otherwise leave. That they find a remarkable starting five, hopefully among Webb, Cobb, Harrison, Winn, and Beck. That their relievers (Doval, Walker, Rogers, Rogers, Junis, Wood, Alexander, Brebbia) are and remain effective.
Not holding my breath, though. I'll watch Kyle Harrison pitch against the Dodgers in the season finale today.
I do have one question: after a very successful 2021, the Giants lost head of pitching (Brian Bannister, this year) and Ethan Katz (last year), who left for the White Sox and they lost Donnie Ecker (hitting coach) to the Rangers...interestingly, to become their bench coach and offensive coordinator. Ecker's Giants were sixth in the NL in runs per game in 2021, and the Rangers were 28th. Last year, the Rangers were 12th, and this year, the Rangers were 3rd.
Why couldn't we keep Katz, Bannister and Ecker?
Ecker received a promotional opportunity in Texas to a position (bench coach) that was not open on Kapler’s staff.
Katz and Bannister. I have no idea. I read an article that stated Zaidi did not stop them from leaving as he did Andrew Bailey when Bailey was given an opportunity to move elsewhere.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 10-02-2023
I’m sure as I’ll bet we are that Crawford retires. Such a great player a great Giant. I’ll miss him.
Plus I know Schmidt can’t hit needs so much work but wow two HRs!!!!!
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 10-02-2023
(10-02-2023, 07:32 AM)BobK Wrote: I’m sure as I’ll bet we are that Crawford retires. Such a great player a great Giant. I’ll miss him.
Plus I know Schmidt can’t hit needs so much work but wow two HRs!!!!!
I hope Schmitt has some upside. I'm not all that confident, because he's 24 years old. Interestingly, he did better at 2B than at either SS or 3B...he had better range and fewer errors. Funny.
I'll really miss Crawford, one of my all time favorite Giants. Definitely in the top five.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - cardcrimson - 10-02-2023
Great to be surrounded by a sea of orange and black yesterday. Tens of thousands of fans, pouring out of the stadium on the last game of the season, content with the season and looking forward to what comes next. Amazing what a couple of years can do.
Haven't been in Baltimore in years, still not sure I'm loving my hotel at Camden Yards, especially as the restaurant and bar were filled with O's fans last night and waits were long. But hey, at least they were happy. . . .
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 10-02-2023
If y'all thought I was harsh on the Giants, check out this guy Bryan Murphy from McCovey Chronicles:
https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2023/10/2/23760453/who-deserves-this-san-francisco-giants-2023-season-the-most-ranked
The bottom line is it always starts at the top. The Giants' owners aren't interested in and don't prioritize winning. Maybe they once did, or they had people in baseball operations who could overcome that indifference before when they won 3 WS. They sure AF don't now.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - lex24 - 10-03-2023
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1696290145' Wrote: 1696290145[/url]']
If y'all thought I was harsh on the Giants, check out this guy Bryan Murphy from McCovey Chronicles:
https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2023/10/2/23760453/who-deserves-this-san-francisco-giants-2023-season-the-most-ranked
The bottom line is it always starts at the top. The Giants' owners aren't interested in and don't prioritize winning. Maybe they once did, or they had people in baseball operations who could overcome that indifference before when they won 3 WS. They sure AF don't now.
Not sure how much you read MC or Murphy. He tends to be somewhat sarcastic.
I’ve been screaming for years about ownership not spending. BUT they certainly showed a willingness to do so last winter. Also, Johnson makes an easy fall guy do to his fathers political contributions. But the fact is - it’s an ownership group. If they don’t like what Greg is doing, they can oust him. It happened to Neukom.
And Zaidi, ultimately, is responsible for closing deals.
‘24 will be Zaidi’s watershed year. It depends on how the development of the yutes goes. If Luciano, Harrison and Bailey start being the new “core”, joined by Webb, and they get some contributions from at least a couple from the group of Meckler, Matos, Schmitt, Beck, Winn, Whisenhunt, Wisely, Fitzgerald and Black, things will look brighter.
If they don’t get that boost, we will be wondering who the next head of baseball ops will be at this time next year.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 10-03-2023
(10-03-2023, 07:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: ‘24 will be Zaidi’s watershed year. It depends on how the development of the yutes goes. If Luciano, Harrison and Bailey start being the new “core”, joined by Webb, and they get some contributions from at least a couple from the group of Meckler, Matos, Schmitt, Beck, Winn, Whisenhunt, Wisely, Fitzgerald and Black, things will look brighter.
If they don’t get that boost, we will be wondering who the next head of baseball ops will be at this time next year.
The first test will be letting Crawford go. It would be very Giants-like to bring him back, and just the wrong thing to do. They need to say goodbye to the past completely.
I'd say to trade Yaz, but he would honestly be the best available Left Handed OF on the market, and the Giants have nobody better form that side in their system. Got to make Wilmer Flores the permanent DH and put him in the 5th hole when he plays. Make him focus on hitting period and make him the every day DH. He hits pretty much the same against righties and lefties.
This has to be the worst free agent class I've ever seen. Ohtani may be generational talent, but there just aren't many real difference makers, so the solutions are gonna have to come from within or in trade as far as position players go. I don't see any way to increase the athleticism on the team other than through trades. They just don't have many great athletes anywhere in the system form what I can gather, and they simply MUST improve the defense and base stealing.
Webb, Stroman and Harrison have the stuff to be legit playoff pitchers, regardless of anyone else who might start for the Giants in 2024, like Cobb, Beck, Winn, or Black, but these guys make for a playoff-worthy starting staff, IMO.
Rather than signing a top Free Agent Starting Pitcher, I'd invest in relievers. Build up a strong bullpen.
So fix the offense and defense. The Pitching is good enough to contend if they are.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 10-03-2023
Let Crawford go? You missed all the Sunday farewells I guess.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Giants - 10-03-2023
BobK dateline='[url=tel:1696356552' Wrote: 1696356552[/url]']
Let Crawford go? You missed all the Sunday farewells I guess.
Are you surprised?
Heck, he also thinks Yaz “would honestly be the best available left handed OF on the market”. I suggest that Bellinger might have something to say about that……
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - OutsiderFan - 10-03-2023
(10-03-2023, 11:37 AM)Giants Wrote:BobK dateline='[url=tel:1696356552' Wrote: 1696356552[/url]']
Let Crawford go? You missed all the Sunday farewells I guess.
Are you surprised?
Heck, he also thinks Yaz “would honestly be the best available left handed OF on the market”. I suggest that Bellinger might have something to say about that……
Oh, yes, forgot Bellinger, but the point is there isn't a lot after him in terms of LH hitting OFs on the 2024 FA market. Bellinger wasn't on the UFA list I saw as he is only a FA if he opts out, which is expected.
And Crawford didn't announce his retirement. I heard Susan Slusser suggest he may want to come back and go out on a higher note.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - Mick - 10-03-2023
(10-03-2023, 12:18 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-03-2023, 11:37 AM)Giants Wrote:BobK dateline='[url=tel:1696356552' Wrote: 1696356552[/url]']
Let Crawford go? You missed all the Sunday farewells I guess.
Are you surprised?
Heck, he also thinks Yaz “would honestly be the best available left handed OF on the market”. I suggest that Bellinger might have something to say about that……
Oh, yes, forgot Bellinger, but the point is there isn't a lot after him in terms of LH hitting OFs on the 2024 FA market. Bellinger wasn't on the UFA list I saw as he is only a FA if he opts out, which is expected.
And Crawford didn't announce his retirement. I heard Susan Slusser suggest he may want to come back and go out on a higher note.
Crawford was on the injured list four times, and he was 22nd on the team in batting average...a team with the third worst batting average in the major leagues. SFG's positional WAR at the SS position was 29th out of 30. I'm sure Crawford wants to come back, but I don't think he could make the San Jose Giants, much less the San Francisco Giants. He should take care of his four kids.
There are limited roster spots, and Crawford doesn't come close to making the grade. And frankly...outside of Ohtani or Bellinger, I don't see any other FA's that are attractive. It says something that Conforto, at 99 OPS+, slightly worse than the average hitter, wants to opt out of his contract. Our existing pitchers are better than anything that's out on the market. Maybe we can get a decent position player upgrade in a trade, maybe package JD Davis and a prospect or two for a better third baseman.
Speaking of JD Davis...his OPS was 119 points worse than last year and he had 152 whiffs in 480 ABs. Yikes. Pederson's OPS was 110 points lower than last year. Slater's was 26 points worse than last year, and 160+ off his career high in 2020. Estrada's was similar to last year, but 82 points below 2021's high. Yaz came in at .775, which was better than last year and compared favorably to 2021, but his 2019 and 2020 were so strong (.852 and .968) that we expected better.
Late Night Lamonte and Flores had OPS's that were at or above their career highs.
And speaking of platooning, want to guess how many Giants qualified for the 502 At Bat minimum to qualify for the batting title? Answer: none of them. Estrada had 495 ABs, he came the closest.
RE: OT: Giants 2023 thread - BobK - 10-03-2023
Mick its 502 plate appearances. Estrada had 530!