WBB: Off-season thread - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: Off-season thread - TheFarm07 - 04-30-2020
Again, pure speculation on my part, but this conversation reminds me of a comment DiJonai made during her high school days that still stuck with me and maybe it played a role, given that Tara likes to use shot clock and sets up plays in the Princeton offense. We do go on fast breaks obviously, perhaps not as much as she would like. Given her aggressive play style, maybe DiJonai felt constrained about how our offense was operating and wanted to play for a team that allows her to improvise more:
"Style of play is important, too. I want a team that runs and guns and pushes the ball to get fast-break points. I don't want a team that says: 'That's our goal.' I want one that is successful at that style."
(04-30-2020, 09:07 AM)BosCard Wrote: I might be alone here but I am not sure that Carrington was that critical of a player for us next year. Yes she is a good player who would have made our team better overall. BUT, if there was some sort of draft and you got to pick the players you wanted to keep in order of importance, she might be the seventh player on my list (Williams, Lexie and all four freshman would be ahead of her). Plus it's not clear to me that she would have been a starter next year. She is a 2/3 and I think we would have seen Lexie and Jones in those spots. Then Carrington would be competing with playing time with the other 2/3's on our team. Wilson is a better defender. Lacie is a better 3-point shooter and defender. Jump is definitely a better 3-point shooter and who know's about Emma-Nnopu but she comes in with a reputation for defense, rebounding and slashing. Now Carrington is the best rebounder and slasher out of that group of 2/3's. But, I think we will have rebounding covered by Belibi, Prechtel, Dodson and Brink. We will miss Carrington's slashing but I would rather see Jones get those slashing attempts because she is so good at that and because I would like her to get the reps for her junior and senior seasons.
All good points, but for me, the most valuable element Carrington brought to the team, IMHO, was her ability to improvise and create something out of nothing when the shot clock winds down. I felt our offense stalled (and it did a lot) when teams were able to accurately defend against our set plays and designs and then we needed a player to manufacture something on the fly. With Carrington and Jones out, Kiana was the only person who could do consistently and I felt that wore on her as the season went on.
We will have Haley back and perhaps other players, whether it be Belibi or Pechtel or Brink coming in, who can contribute on that front, but as we saw last season, unforeseen injuries can quickly rob the team of depth. Having another player with a consistent history of doing so would have helped.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - jonnyss - 04-30-2020
i think DiJonai is a fabulous player, my favorite on the team from her arrival. in addition to her drives, don't forget her rebounding. i am sorry to see her go. at the beginning of this past season, she was quickly pulled. perhaps to protect her knees, perhaps on a short leash. it looked like tara was favoring haley over DiJonai, which may have seemed a bit disrespectful to such a talented and successful veteran.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - petersalas - 04-30-2020
DiJonai interview:
https://soundcloud.com/kxtg-the-bald-faced-truth/bft-interview-dijonai-carrington
I didn’t get a chance to listen yet so I don’t know if it answers any questions or thoughts posted here.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - mbdude - 04-30-2020
(04-30-2020, 12:35 PM)jonnyss Wrote: i think DiJonai is a fabulous player, my favorite on the team from her arrival. in addition to her drives, don't forget her rebounding. i am sorry to see her go. at the beginning of this past season, she was quickly pulled. perhaps to protect her knees, perhaps on a short leash. it looked like tara was favoring haley over DiJonai, which may have seemed a bit disrespectful to such a talented and successful veteran.
I seem to recall she was pulled a couple of times after attempting a shot or layup and just couldn't get off the ground, just didn't have the strength.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - Jskass - 04-30-2020
listening right now and so far it sounds like it's a statement on the coaching staff: (1) she doesn't appear to like them and (2) she thinks others prepare players better for the next level. Also is complimentary of her friend Sabrina Ionescu (same class, played together) and her growth so that combined with her familiarity with Oregon does make one think OR is the favorite unless she decides she wants a major change such as trying East Coast...
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - 2006alum - 04-30-2020
(04-30-2020, 04:06 PM)Jskass Wrote: listening right now and so far it sounds like it's a statement on the coaching staff: (1) she doesn't appear to like them and (2) she thinks others prepare players better for the next level. Also is complimentary of her friend Sabrina Ionescu (same class, played together) and her growth so that combined with her familiarity with Oregon does make one think OR is the favorite unless she decides she wants a major change such as trying East Coast...
Hmm, I feel like that's overstating things just a bit, or at least reading heavily between the lines. When asked what she's looking for in transferring, she said, and I quote, "I think there are some amazing things about each of the schools and that is why this decision has been so difficult and has prolonged for this long. I think I'm looking for kind of a good relationship with my coaches, my teammates were outstanding at Stanford, obviously, so I want to continue that, but I just want to go somewhere where I can have an immediate impact and they can put me in the best position to get drafted and to be successful at the next level."
To me, what was most revealing was that she apparently decided on transferring long ago. Given that Moschkau announced her grad transfer just a week or two ago, and yet Carrington says her decision about where to transfer has "prolonged for this long," it makes me think that she made the decision long before a scholarship was clearly available to her, and when she did not necessarily think she'd be able to come back. And since she apparently will receive two degrees from Stanford, I can see why sticking around for a co-term wouldn't necessarily add much more for her.
Perhaps you can read something into the fact that she didn't say she had a great relationship with the coaches at Stanford but did say she had a great relationship with her teammates. But apart from that, a checklist of good relationship with coaches, good relationship with teammates, and preparing for the pro game all seem like obvious criteria for anyone in her position.
ETA: During the long stretch where it seemed there would only be one scholarship available for either Wilson or Carrington, I could see a scenario where Carrington might have felt she was the stronger player, but because Wilson sought it out first, and perhaps had the more sympathetic case for one, the coaches said Wilson would get it over Carrington, and in that Sophie's Choice situation it led to a falling out. Once you know the coaching staff is going to pick that other player over you, even if a scholarship later opens up, there might be too much water under that bridge to cross back over it.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - WBB fan - 04-30-2020
Thanks Petersalas for posting the interview. I just listened, pretty long -- of the 33 minutes, 25 was with DiJonai. Here's what I got out of it . . .
She commented on how much she'd liked her teammates and playing with them, were really great, but in the same set of comments, said nothing positive about any of the coaches, in fact, never really talked about them at all. Later, when asked what she'd learned about playing in college, she hesitated, then said that she'd learned about boxing out.
Re whether she really was still hurt at end of season, not clear, but she did say that she was "still rehabbing."
Talked about Sabrina and how much she admired her, why she was so good, and then said that Kelley had allowed Sabrina to blossom, and she was looking for that. Maybe, perhaps ??? possible to infer from this that she didn't feel she got that at Stanford.
Commented that the decision among her 3 finalists was her "last shot at picking the right school." Does this imply that she now feels that she'd made a mistake in picking Stanford?
My final conclusion was she didn't want to say explicitly that she was unhappy with Stanford and the way her career had developed, but much of what she said seemed to suggest that. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was at least the flavor I got.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - teejers1 - 04-30-2020
(04-30-2020, 09:07 AM)BosCard Wrote: I might be alone here but I am not sure that Carrington was that critical of a player for us next year. Yes she is a good player who would have made our team better overall. BUT, if there was some sort of draft and you got to pick the players you wanted to keep in order of importance, she might be the seventh player on my list (Williams, Lexie and all four freshman would be ahead of her). Plus it's not clear to me that she would have been a starter next year. She is a 2/3 and I think we would have seen Lexie and Jones in those spots. Then Carrington would be competing with playing time with the other 2/3's on our team. Wilson is a better defender. Lacie is a better 3-point shooter and defender. Jump is definitely a better 3-point shooter and who know's about Emma-Nnopu but she comes in with a reputation for defense, rebounding and slashing. Now Carrington is the best rebounder and slasher out of that group of 2/3's. But, I think we will have rebounding covered by Belibi, Prechtel, Dodson and Brink. We will miss Carrington's slashing but I would rather see Jones get those slashing attempts because she is so good at that and because I would like her to get the reps for her junior and senior seasons.
At this point, I'll just take Jones coming back and playing reasonably well. [She was just okay to start the season; then started hitting her stride; then was injured. I have no clue when she'll be back and/or at what level her play will be upon return. Hoping for the best, but who knows?
I think you underestimate Carrington's overall game: scorer (not necessarily a shooter), rebounder, defender. She was very good. When fully healthy, I'd probably put her behind only Williams on the current roster. But, just as it's not certain what Jones' health status will be, the same holds for Carrington.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - BosCard - 04-30-2020
I think the Carrington situation might be similar to Lili Thompson. Player feels like they are being held back by the coaches or the system and decides to transfer. And how did Thompson do at her new school? Not so good. She averaged 5.9 points per game before she got injured.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - 2006alum - 04-30-2020
Apart from questions about her injury status, to me the other thing about Carrington that was always striking was that she could often be a turnover machine, with some extremely questionable passing choices. Sometimes she'd smile, almost suggesting that she enjoyed tempting fate and didn't mind risking getting burned. Knowing what I know about Tara, that is not something she'd be thrilled to deal with year after year. And she did sometimes seem to just ignore sets altogether and try to do her own thing.
Indeed, Carrington is the only starting guard I can find who had more turnovers than assists each of her four years at Stanford. (McPhee had a sub 1:1 A:TO ratio in 3 of 4 years, but she also didn't have the benefit of playing with a PG the caliber of Kiana Williams for 3 of those 4 years.) I can see her fitting in well at Oregon, but she'll have an even shorter leash on Geno's court if she sprays turnovers like she did on the Farm.
All of that said, I think she (along with Williams) was probably our most balanced player in the post-McCall era, in terms of offense, defense, rebounding, and will to win. That last quality was one of the reasons why she's been one of my favorite Stanford WCBB players over the last half decade.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - crackpot - 04-30-2020
(04-30-2020, 07:22 PM)BosCard Wrote: I think the Carrington situation might be similar to Lili Thompson. Player feels like they are being held back by the coaches or the system and decides to transfer. And how did Thompson do at her new school? Not so good. She averaged 5.9 points per game before she got injured.
Found myself thinking about that very situation today, since Carrington was a frosh that season and had a first-hand look at the, uh, importance of chemistry.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - 2006alum - 04-30-2020
(04-30-2020, 07:37 PM)crackpot Wrote:Just to correct the record, while Lili's senior season was Carrington's frosh season, Lili had left the team the prior spring before her senior year, so whatever chemistry issues there were, they were moot by the time Carrington arrived on the Farm.(04-30-2020, 07:22 PM)BosCard Wrote: I think the Carrington situation might be similar to Lili Thompson. Player feels like they are being held back by the coaches or the system and decides to transfer. And how did Thompson do at her new school? Not so good. She averaged 5.9 points per game before she got injured.
Found myself thinking about that very situation today, since Carrington was a frosh that season and had a first-hand look at the, uh, importance of chemistry.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - 81alum - 04-30-2020
Thanks for posting that interview! After listening to it, you all have summarized it perfectly.
She sounds just as intelligent and thoughtful as she always has. It is hard not to admire her. Reading between the lines, she absolutely never did mention coaching at Stanford. Of course, she has not yet graduated and she might open up more when she is gone. But, for now at least, I thought she was very responsible and respectful to keep any differences she had to herself.
I also thought it interesting that she is still undergoing physical therapy. Was her surgery last summer much more serious than we thought?
I think the revealing comments were about being in "the best position to be drafted." That might indeed be about more than coaching, but could have to do with competition for playing time on a team. Our team desperately needed a slasher down the stretch this year, so I think she could have been a key player for us next year. I also think Tara could find a way to put her, Lexie, and Haley on the floor at the same time. But perhaps she thinks she would be more the center of an offense at one of the other three schools.
Then there is this, and it may be the most reasonable explanation of all. She may have learned all she can learn from Tara, and thinks she could learn something new from one of those other coaches. It would not necessarily be an indictment on Tara to say she has "graduated" not just with two academic degrees, but with a Tara basketball degree, and now its time to learn something new. A Masters of Geno.
And Di might have been talking directly to my posts when she answered the academic degree speculation. It sounded like she reads the Cardboard. "I have two degrees. I'm set." But she is planning to come back somewhere for an advanced degree in psychology or criminology later, so my tea-leaf reading was not entirely wrong! Just wrong about the timing. (And I suspect what she has earned is a double major or a secondary major. Unless things have changed since I was faculty, Stanford does not award two separate bachelors degrees. Not to diminish a double major, which is really tough to pull off.)
Let me conclude by saying thank you to Dijonai Carrington. Whatever your reasons for leaving, you have given me and all of the fans much joy in watching you over the years. The immense heart that you play with, the rebounding, the acrobatic and semi-out-of-control drives to the basket, the enthusiasm you displayed was a joy to behold. I missed it throughout most of last season and spent months hoping to have another chance to see you play for us. Now I must let go of that hope. Now I have to hope that you won't display all of those wonderful basketball qualities when you play against us! But good luck, Di, as you pursue your dreams.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - pefloresjr - 04-30-2020
I really liked Carrington's ability to drive to the hoop and finish. We really missed it this year. I thought we needed her to make a truly deep run in the tournament. Turned out that it wouldn't have mattered. It felt like something went wrong with her relationship with the coaches around the holidays when some fans noted that she was the first to leave the locker room alone after some games. I noticed she wasn't on the bench for some games but assumed she was at home and still rehabbing anyway. I am heartbroken that she is leaving to go to one of those three schools. My brain wishes her the best but my heart is still mad at her. I don't know how I will feel next year if she plays against Stanford. I appreciate all she gave to us as fans but I don't want to see her score a single point against our team if she is playing for Oregon, UConn, or Baylor.
Cheers,
Pete F.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - Phogge - 05-01-2020
She made her commitment and stuck with it for four years. The system lets her leave on her terms. No spilt milk. Thanks for your service.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - crackpot - 05-01-2020
(04-30-2020, 07:39 PM)2006alum Wrote:(04-30-2020, 07:37 PM)crackpot Wrote:Just to correct the record, while Lili's senior season was Carrington's frosh season, Lili had left the team the prior spring before her senior year, so whatever chemistry issues there were, they were moot by the time Carrington arrived on the Farm.(04-30-2020, 07:22 PM)BosCard Wrote: I think the Carrington situation might be similar to Lili Thompson. Player feels like they are being held back by the coaches or the system and decides to transfer. And how did Thompson do at her new school? Not so good. She averaged 5.9 points per game before she got injured.
Found myself thinking about that very situation today, since Carrington was a frosh that season and had a first-hand look at the, uh, importance of chemistry.
After her frosh season, Carrington said that team was incredibly bonded.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - oldalum - 05-01-2020
(05-01-2020, 07:32 AM)Phogge Wrote: She made her commitment and stuck with it for four years. The system lets her leave on her terms. No spilt milk. Thanks for your service.Yes. After they get their degree(s), these players' first obligation is to themselves. I'm sorry if she did not have the best possible undergraduate experience as a student-athlete, apart from being injured. As fans we can bemoan the possible adverse effects of their leaving on our team's future fate, but we're tough, we're resilient, we can handle it. :)
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - BobK - 05-01-2020
I especially like in her audio interview transferring will help her in the WNBA draft
Hmmmm
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - dcnav - 05-01-2020
I hope she doesn't try the UConn route. I think it would be a pretty unhappy situation for her. Geno is very tough and it's not easy to learn his system. For instance, I don't think Stevens enjoyed her year there very much. And the post who grad transferred there this year hardly got off the bench. Di is much better of course, but they do have C. Williams kinda playing her position. Of course it's also not so easy to bond with just one year to play. I don't really want to see her at Oregon, but think that might be the best fit for her. They have a bunch of really talented players coming in and she could be the knowledgeable vet for them....and whatever classes she takes there would be a piece of cake after Stanford.
RE: WBB: Off-season thread - 76lsjumb - 05-01-2020
What I find most discouraging about this is that it seems to suggest that, in her assessment, at least, out of Oregon, Baylor, UConn and Stanford, Stanford is least likely to win the National Championship next year. After all, if you had only one year to play and your choice of elite schools at which to play for that one year, wouldn't you pick the one that you felt had the best chance of winning the whole thing? I sure would, unless I really, really couldn't get along with the coaching staff.