There will be no college football [playoff] this season - Printable Version
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RE: There will be no college football this season - Mick - 08-31-2020
(08-31-2020, 12:41 PM)teejers1 Wrote: I hope ND guts it out and at the end of the semester looks back and says: "it was tough, but we managed to get through it. We had some missteps here and there and the students had to acclimate behavior, but at the end of the day we think we provided a better college experience with kids on campus and no one died or even needed intensive care at local health providers." No clue if that can be accomplished, but if it can, then I'd consider that impressive (and a good thing).
P.S. I agree with Farm93 and Snorlax that my use of the word "fixated" was imprudent. This is a Covid board and the developments around the country are of interest, so my apologies for that. But I will say that I believe many here are watching developments at universities with almost a hope that things go bad, because the tone of the "observational" posts is condescending (thematically along the lines of "I can't believe these idiots are even trying this"). I will never embrace that outlook.
https://youtu.be/ri0N3xHDXYs?t=32
RE: There will be no college football this season - chrisk - 08-31-2020
ND will allow 20% of capacity in stadium, strictly students, faculty, staff and members of their households.
RE: There will be no college football this season - Farm93 - 09-01-2020
(08-31-2020, 08:51 PM)chrisk Wrote: ND will allow 20% of capacity in stadium, strictly students, faculty, staff and members of their households.FWIW - I think fans in the stands is crazy.
However, if the desire is to create a better TV product then the school should be all in on that aspect.
Wealthy donors that generally sit and talk about business deals and retirement portfolios during the game would not enhance the TV product. They also are not living in that campus community day to day so their attendance creates new risks for everyone. If they are in the stands rather than students, then the money grab just takes on a new pathetic level.
If noise and passion are desired for the TV product and COVID community-to-community transmission is a concern, then bring in the people that are with the athletes every day. Let each "dorm" or "house" get its own section. Bring out the band, but instead of cramming them into 15 rows, given them a section or two (or more). etc.
Football stadiums appear to have that 80/20 situation where 80% of the noise is created by 20% of the fans. At most schools that 20% will be the students and the band, so if the goal is to enhance the audio of the TV product then get the 20% of fans into the stands that provide the audio you seek.
Still believe zero is better than 20% because 20% still requires ushers, police and other first responders, clean up crews and other essential workers that just seem to get COVID too often. It is one thing to get COVID keeping public transportation running or roads open, it is another thing to get COVID to assist the effort of enhancing game day audio for football games on TV.
RE: There will be no college football this season - teejers1 - 09-01-2020
(09-01-2020, 08:36 AM)Farm93 Wrote:(08-31-2020, 08:51 PM)chrisk Wrote: ND will allow 20% of capacity in stadium, strictly students, faculty, staff and members of their households.FWIW - I think fans in the stands is crazy.
However, if the desire is to create a better TV product then the school should be all in on that aspect.
Wealthy donors that generally sit and talk about business deals and retirement portfolios during the game would not enhance the TV product. They also are not living in that campus community day to day so their attendance creates new risks for everyone. If they are in the stands rather than students, then the money grab just takes on a new pathetic level.
If noise and passion are desired for the TV product and COVID community-to-community transmission is a concern, then bring in the people that are with the athletes every day. Let each "dorm" or "house" get its own section. Bring out the band, but instead of cramming them into 15 rows, given them a section or two (or more). etc.
Football stadiums appear to have that 80/20 situation where 80% of the noise is created by 20% of the fans. At most schools that 20% will be the students and the band, so if the goal is to enhance the audio of the TV product then get the 20% of fans into the stands that provide the audio you seek.
Still believe zero is better than 20% because 20% still requires ushers, police and other first responders, clean up crews and other essential workers that just seem to get COVID too often. It is one thing to get COVID keeping public transportation running or roads open, it is another thing to get COVID to assist the effort of enhancing game day audio for football games on TV.
Agreed. And as for TV viewing, I'm finding the cutouts and piped in noise just fine for MLB; and the NBA "virtual fans" I've gotten used to, too.
Perhaps biggest spread risk will be letting players' families (who can come in from all over) attend the games. I mean, I completely understand why that group should be at/near top of admissions list - but it does present higher risk profile, especially at national draw schools like ND.
RE: There will be no college football this season - OutsiderFan - 09-01-2020
[tweet]https://twitter.com/dynarski/status/1300492837285507074[/tweet]
RE: There will be no college football this season - teejers1 - 09-01-2020
Yes, yes . . . more "breaking news" reporting by The Agenda devotees. Of course numbers are going to be up when you bring in thousands of kids from wherever. The real issue is does that have unacceptable negative ramifications?
If you're going to report on that, how about some balance? ND appears to be moving in the right direction (significantly).
See the dashboard here.
https://here.nd.edu/our-approach/dashboard/
And they're returning to in-person classes next week (per a work colleague).
And they're going to allow some fans in stands (a bit ambitious, imo, but good luck).
How come we don't see these developments get nearly the "run" of "outbreak here,", "surge there" stories?
Look, I don't know how this is ultimately going to play out at ND or anywhere else. Maybe everything gets shut down; maybe many/most schools get through it. But the "pounce" group - that jumps on anything negative (or potentially negative) - here and elsewhere is remarkable.
RE: There will be no college football this season - Farm93 - 09-01-2020
(09-01-2020, 11:33 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(09-01-2020, 10:30 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
Yes, yes . . . more "breaking news" reporting by The Agenda devotees. Of course numbers are going to be up when you bring in thousands of kids from wherever. The real issue is does that have unacceptable negative ramifications?
If you're going to report on that, how about some balance? ND appears to be moving in the right direction (significantly).
See the dashboard here.
https://here.nd.edu/our-approach/dashboard/
And they're returning to in-person classes next week (per a work colleague).
And they're going to allow some fans in stands (a bit ambitious, imo, but good luck).
How come we don't see these developments get nearly the "run" of "outbreak here,", "surge there" stories?
Look, I don't know how this is ultimately going to play out at ND or anywhere else. Maybe everything gets shut down; maybe many/most schools get through it. But the "pounce" group - that jumps on anything negative (or potentially negative) - here and elsewhere is remarkable.
There is an easy answer...It is easy to open it is another trick to STAY open. So let's wait 5-15 days and see where Notre Dame is at that point.
FWIW - My guess is they will not do much better this time, but if there is any place that might believe in Trump's faith in miracles strategy it would be a religious university like Notre Dame.
Why my negativity? Notre Dame had a really good strategy at the start of their year, and it still didn't work out. I think the problem for Notre Dame is that they can test when people arrive on campus for the first day, but students, faculty and staff leave campus during the semester for a number of reasons. Those excursions off campus will bring the virus back.
The most unavoidable weak spot for a USA-based college? Essential workers
Unless Notre Dame forces the always overlooked essential working staff (housekeeping, janitors, food service, ground maintenance) to live on campus then they will have the same COVID issues even if 100% of students and faculty live on campus.
So given that COVID will find its way back to campus, the typical college campus will continue to be a place where COVID will thrive. Perhaps if they didn't test (another Trump strategy) then they wouldn't see cases. That might be OK if everyone on campus was under 40, but the would be those pesky essential workers and faculty members that have the nerve to work when over 40.
This isn't really a ding to Notre Dame or anything like that. It is just that COVID19 is simply destined to thrive in a setting where a bunch of young people are together. Since Notre Dame still plans to test everyone frequently they will discover cases soon enough. But I would not expect them to see them on Return Day (-1). I would expect they will see them on Return Day (+5).
IMHO if they make it to Return Day (+15) without a surge in cases THEN we can celebrate their amazing accomplishment.
RE: There will be no college football this season - 82lsju - 09-01-2020
at ND
Quote:
- At present, classes continue virtually.
- Phased resumption of in-person undergraduate courses starts Wednesday, September 2.
- Graduate and professional school classes resumed in-person instruction starting August 24, subject to the discretion of their individual instructors and programs.
https://here.nd.edu/facilities-environment/august-28-phased-return-to-campus-activity/
and on football attendance
Quote:attendance at this year’s Notre Dame Football games will be limited to 20% or less of Notre Dame Stadium’s normal capacity.
...
Beyond limiting the number of spectators at the game, the unique approach being taken by the University is designed to promote safety by limiting attendance to those individuals who are current members of the Notre Dame campus community and accords with the expectations articulated by St. Joseph County health officials regarding limiting attendees to residents of the local area. Where exceptions to that policy need to be made (i.e. family members of participating student-athletes from both teams) they will be very limited in number, and those individuals will be seated in separate areas of the Stadium.
All attendees will be required to wear masks and practice physical distancing. Tailgating will not be permitted. Mobile ticketing, rather than traditional printed tickets, will be used.
https://und.com/notre-dame-announces-game-day-policies-for-the-2020-football-season/
RE: There will be no college football this season - chrisk - 09-01-2020
How transparent is it that Trump is tweeting and calling BIG 10 Commissioner to get it to change its decision on delaying its football season. A lot of swing states.
RE: There will be no college football this season - needle - 09-01-2020
Maybe I'm the only one who finds this interesting, but I file this under Why Are We Playing Again??:
Quote:Austin Peay-Central Arkansas kicked off the college football season on Saturday night, averaging 501,000 viewers on ESPN in the 9:00pm ET window, reports SBJ's Austin Karp. Last season, the FCS opener (Youngstown State-Samford) averaged 718,000 viewers on ESPN on a Saturday afternoon in Week 0.
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/SB-Blogs/Newsletter-College/2020/09/01.aspx
The article goes on to note that competition for TV viewership included Nascar and the NBA, fwiw.
To drift a bit in my own post, I think we can all agree Power 5 football is more likely now than two weeks ago?
I'd put it at a solid 60%, with the biggest threat over the next two weeks being that players decide in large numbers -- a la UCF, where 10 players have said they're skipping the year -- to not participate. The SEC, ACC and Big 12 are not going to let myocarditis concerns cost them a season.
RE: There will be no college football this season - teejers1 - 09-01-2020
(09-01-2020, 12:07 PM)Farm93 Wrote:(09-01-2020, 11:33 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(09-01-2020, 10:30 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
Yes, yes . . . more "breaking news" reporting by The Agenda devotees. Of course numbers are going to be up when you bring in thousands of kids from wherever. The real issue is does that have unacceptable negative ramifications?
If you're going to report on that, how about some balance? ND appears to be moving in the right direction (significantly).
See the dashboard here.
https://here.nd.edu/our-approach/dashboard/
And they're returning to in-person classes next week (per a work colleague).
And they're going to allow some fans in stands (a bit ambitious, imo, but good luck).
How come we don't see these developments get nearly the "run" of "outbreak here,", "surge there" stories?
Look, I don't know how this is ultimately going to play out at ND or anywhere else. Maybe everything gets shut down; maybe many/most schools get through it. But the "pounce" group - that jumps on anything negative (or potentially negative) - here and elsewhere is remarkable.
There is an easy answer...It is easy to open it is another trick to STAY open. So let's wait 5-15 days and see where Notre Dame is at that point.
FWIW - My guess is they will not do much better this time, but if there is any place that might believe in Trump's faith in miracles strategy it would be a religious university like Notre Dame.
Why my negativity? Notre Dame had a really good strategy at the start of their year, and it still didn't work out. I think the problem for Notre Dame is that they can test when people arrive on campus for the first day, but students, faculty and staff leave campus during the semester for a number of reasons. Those excursions off campus will bring the virus back.
The most unavoidable weak spot for a USA-based college? Essential workers
Unless Notre Dame forces the always overlooked essential working staff (housekeeping, janitors, food service, ground maintenance) to live on campus then they will have the same COVID issues even if 100% of students and faculty live on campus.
So given that COVID will find its way back to campus, the typical college campus will continue to be a place where COVID will thrive. Perhaps if they didn't test (another Trump strategy) then they wouldn't see cases. That might be OK if everyone on campus was under 40, but the would be those pesky essential workers and faculty members that have the nerve to work when over 40.
This isn't really a ding to Notre Dame or anything like that. It is just that COVID19 is simply destined to thrive in a setting where a bunch of young people are together. Since Notre Dame still plans to test everyone frequently they will discover cases soon enough. But I would not expect them to see them on Return Day (-1). I would expect they will see them on Return Day (+5).
IMHO if they make it to Return Day (+15) without a surge in cases THEN we can celebrate their amazing accomplishment.
You could be right, though I admit to not being sure I fully understand you.
The ND students are there, living in dorms, and taking classes remotely.
Are you saying that returning to classes (which I assume some, but not all will do) will cause the spread?
Also, ND is testing regularly, aren't they? The dashboard tells you number of tests, positive results, etc.
Again, maybe you're right. I'm not sure I see the "resurgence" event that you think is a gimme (after 15 days or so).
But I guess we'll see.
RE: There will be no college football this season - magnus - 09-01-2020
(09-01-2020, 08:56 PM)chrisk Wrote: How transparent is it that Trump is tweeting and calling BIG 10 Commissioner to get it to change its decision on delaying its football season. A lot of swing states.
I heard on the radio that Trump tweeted that negotiations to have the Big 10 play this year was on the 1 yard line. What made me chuckle was when the radio host noted that some of the replies asked "which 1 yard line".
RE: There will be no college football this season - OutsiderFan - 09-02-2020
(09-01-2020, 10:29 PM)magnus Wrote:(09-01-2020, 08:56 PM)chrisk Wrote: How transparent is it that Trump is tweeting and calling BIG 10 Commissioner to get it to change its decision on delaying its football season. A lot of swing states.
I heard on the radio that Trump tweeted that negotiations to have the Big 10 play this year was on the 1 yard line. What made me chuckle was when the radio host noted that some of the replies asked "which 1 yard line".
Own.
But seriously, why would the POTUS start telling the truth all of a sudden? It's really more like own 25. The game just started with a touchback.
RE: There will be no college football this season - CardinalSagehen - 09-02-2020
(09-02-2020, 07:35 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(09-01-2020, 10:29 PM)magnus Wrote:(09-01-2020, 08:56 PM)chrisk Wrote: How transparent is it that Trump is tweeting and calling BIG 10 Commissioner to get it to change its decision on delaying its football season. A lot of swing states.
I heard on the radio that Trump tweeted that negotiations to have the Big 10 play this year was on the 1 yard line. What made me chuckle was when the radio host noted that some of the replies asked "which 1 yard line".
Own.
But seriously, why would the POTUS start telling the truth all of a sudden? It's really more like own 25. The game just started with a touchback.
By saying it’s on the 1 yard-line, he resets expectations and puts immense pressure on the Big Ten, especially in Trump Country. If they act, he gets to take credit. If they don’t act, he gets to whine and call them a disaster. Either way, he is happy. It’s The Art of the Deal. (No, I have not read it and don’t know what it’s actually about!)
Let’s also not forget that the Big Ten contains a few key battleground states, too. And football is very popular.
RE: There will be no college football this season - OutsiderFan - 09-02-2020
(09-02-2020, 09:37 AM)CardinalSagehen Wrote:(09-02-2020, 07:35 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(09-01-2020, 10:29 PM)magnus Wrote:(09-01-2020, 08:56 PM)chrisk Wrote: How transparent is it that Trump is tweeting and calling BIG 10 Commissioner to get it to change its decision on delaying its football season. A lot of swing states.
I heard on the radio that Trump tweeted that negotiations to have the Big 10 play this year was on the 1 yard line. What made me chuckle was when the radio host noted that some of the replies asked "which 1 yard line".
Own.
But seriously, why would the POTUS start telling the truth all of a sudden? It's really more like own 25. The game just started with a touchback.
By saying it’s on the 1 yard-line, he resets expectations and puts immense pressure on the Big Ten, especially in Trump Country. If they act, he gets to take credit. If they don’t act, he gets to whine and call them a disaster. Either way, he is happy. It’s The Art of the Deal. (No, I have not read it and don’t know what it’s actually about!)
Let’s also not forget that the Big Ten contains a few key battleground states, too. And football is very popular.
It doesn't gain him anything but more rage from those who already support him. Most people know the guy lies with impunity and don't believe the ball is anywhere near the opponent 1-yd line, and the fact he said this reinforces the conviction. IOW, this Big Ten stunt doesn't expand the appeal of the current POTUS.
I'm just struck by the weakness of calling the Big Ten commissioner. He is not the decision-maker. His bosses are. The POTUS *should* be able to get an audience with any decision maker in the country they want. He either couldn't, or doesn't know how college conference decisions are made. My guess is the latter.
RE: There will be no college football this season - Farm93 - 09-02-2020
(09-01-2020, 09:50 PM)teejers1 Wrote: You could be right, though I admit to not being sure I fully understand you.My point is the ND bubble will not be like the NBA bubble.
The ND students are there, living in dorms, and taking classes remotely.
Are you saying that returning to classes (which I assume some, but not all will do) will cause the spread?
Also, ND is testing regularly, aren't they? The dashboard tells you number of tests, positive results, etc.
Again, maybe you're right. I'm not sure I see the "resurgence" event that you think is a gimme (after 15 days or so).
But I guess we'll see.
The NBA has literally EVERYONE in the bubble, the TV crews, the coaches and the players. They have a couple of supply access points, but only the items go in not the people.
For two weeks Notre Dame has been closed with people still on campus, but with the students not acting as students.
Let's see what happens when the students are given the all clear. When they confidently go from class to class, from group study session to group study session, and resume off campus excursions. Let's see what happens when faculty are tasked with making appearances in on campus classrooms. And let's see what happens when those essential workers need to move around those two groups (students and faculty) daily to keep the now fully functioning campus clean.
Notre Dame is testing often. However they were testing initially and it fell apart in just a week.
On a positive note this time all of the students have been in South Bend, Indiana. I would guess part of their failure the first time was students came to campus pre-symptomatic from all over the USA. Presumably some tested negative as they were only recently exposed to COVID, but then moved around campus that first week in a contagious phase for COVID while believing they didn't have COVID. If the students really have stayed in an ND bubble for ~2 weeks then it might be better this time.
Guess we will see.
Still - Before we declare victory if they open for 2 weeks. Another caveat.
A number of schools are "open" in name only. They have almost all classes online only. A number of schools have required some students to live on campus which conveniently loads up the dorms ($$$). Many require them to buy grab-n-back to dorm room food ($$$). But in most cases there are very, very few classes in person on a daily basis. As the schools are "open" they get full tuition, full room and full board revenue, but in many cases it is not exactly the open and functioning experience I suspect you believe is happening.
RE: There will be no college football this season - teejers1 - 09-02-2020
(09-02-2020, 10:19 AM)Farm93 Wrote:(09-01-2020, 09:50 PM)teejers1 Wrote: You could be right, though I admit to not being sure I fully understand you.My point is the ND bubble will not be like the NBA bubble.
The ND students are there, living in dorms, and taking classes remotely.
Are you saying that returning to classes (which I assume some, but not all will do) will cause the spread?
Also, ND is testing regularly, aren't they? The dashboard tells you number of tests, positive results, etc.
Again, maybe you're right. I'm not sure I see the "resurgence" event that you think is a gimme (after 15 days or so).
But I guess we'll see.
The NBA has literally EVERYONE in the bubble, the TV crews, the coaches and the players. They have a couple of supply access points, but only the items go in not the people.
For two weeks Notre Dame has been closed with people still on campus, but with the students not acting as students.
Let's see what happens when the students are given the all clear. When they confidently go from class to class, from group study session to group study session, and resume off campus excursions. Let's see what happens when faculty are tasked with making appearances in on campus classrooms. And let's see what happens when those essential workers need to move around those two groups (students and faculty) daily to keep the now fully functioning campus clean.
Notre Dame is testing often. However they were testing initially and it fell apart in just a week.
On a positive note this time all of the students have been in South Bend, Indiana. I would guess part of their failure the first time was students came to campus pre-symptomatic from all over the USA. Presumably some tested negative as they were only recently exposed to COVID, but then moved around campus that first week in a contagious phase for COVID while believing they didn't have COVID. If the students really have stayed in an ND bubble for ~2 weeks then it might be better this time.
Guess we will see.
Still - Before we declare victory if they open for 2 weeks. Another caveat.
A number of schools are "open" in name only. They have almost all classes online only. A number of schools have required some students to live on campus which conveniently loads up the dorms ($$$). Many require them to buy grab-n-back to dorm room food ($$$). But in most cases there are very, very few classes in person on a daily basis. As the schools are "open" they get full tuition, full room and full board revenue, but in many cases it is not exactly the open and functioning experience I suspect you believe is happening.
No, I get what is happening (and why) and agree that, as with all things, $$ is the driving force in risk-benefit anlysis.
Thought my prior posts, including one on speculating about ND gutting it out, was pretty clear on this.
RE: There will be no college football this season - BostonCard - 09-02-2020
I may be going out on a limb here, but I think there will be a college football season. It appears "we" as a society are by and large willing to accept the risk of COVID-19 spread to have non-essential things like bars and college football. I would have prioritized in person schooling, especially for younger kids who won't do as well online, but alas we seem to have been willing to make that sacrifice.
BC
RE: There will be no college football this season - teejers1 - 09-02-2020
(09-02-2020, 06:17 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I may be going out on a limb here, but I think there will be a college football season. It appears "we" as a society are by and large willing to accept the risk of COVID-19 spread to have non-essential things like bars and college football. I would have prioritized in person schooling, especially for younger kids who won't do as well online, but alas we seem to have been willing to make that sacrifice.
BC
If we are being frank, we all know which group is leading the charge against in-person classrooms for K-12 in public schools. They have many supporters; they have many detractors, too.
BTW, you obviously cannot force teachers into a classroom, nor should you. But how about trying some alternatives for higher risk profile educators? (For example, reduced pay for sitting it out; allowing older teachers to be instruct remotely, outdoor/canopied classrooms where possible, etc.).
As far as I can tell, there has been none of that. As a parent of 3 kids who are at home "distance learning," that is incredibly disappointing and frustrating.
RE: There will be no college football this season - Snorlax94 - 09-02-2020
(09-02-2020, 09:00 PM)teejers1 Wrote:By this I assume you mean the president and his sycophants, because the president absolutely ruined any chance of safely opening schools by clamoring for bars to open, for venues to be crowded, by failing to use the Government to provide medical-grade PPE for teachers, for championing false information for people to not take the disease seriously, and, perhaps most destructively, for chiding people for wearing masks.(09-02-2020, 06:17 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I may be going out on a limb here, but I think there will be a college football season. It appears "we" as a society are by and large willing to accept the risk of COVID-19 spread to have non-essential things like bars and college football. I would have prioritized in person schooling, especially for younger kids who won't do as well online, but alas we seem to have been willing to make that sacrifice.
BC
If we are being frank, we all know which group is leading the charge against in-person classrooms for K-12 in public schools.
My local public school has been a champion for re-opening as much and as early as possible, despite all the government failures. They ran a summer camp for the children of essential workers, and last I heard, they ran the camp with a 0% transmission rate. They’ve rolled the success of that program to being one of the first districts in Santa Clara County to get an exemption to run an on-site accomodation for children of essential workers, and to hopefully provide services for special needs on-site. They say they’ll expand that program as quickly as they can, so much that some parents are worried they are trying to do too much on campus. And they’re doing all this despite a failure by the Senate to provide financial assistance to schools, a failure by the president to make enough masks — unlike Korea which has been providing the general public 2 medical grade masks conparable to n95s a week per person since February, a failure by the federal government which has one of the worst disease responses in the world. So by your finger pointing and innuendo, I assume you meant Trump and his lackeys.