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RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Phogge - 08-17-2022
Niners cut Nkemdice (sp). Interior DL is becoming an issue. OF’s guy, Kinlaw has a lot of pressure put upon him and in the regular season has done nothing. Yeah, yeah he’s always hurt but that’s a part of the problem.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - BostonCard - 08-18-2022
Watson’s suspension was upped to 11 games, but he will play this season. Two thoughts
1) Pathetic that an (alleged) serial sexual assualter is suspended for less than a season, and rewarded with one of the richest contracts in the league.
2) consensus was that the Browns would make a play for Garopalo if Watson were suspended for the season. Maybe they make 2/3 of a play?
BC
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Mick - 08-18-2022
(08-18-2022, 10:24 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Watson’s suspension was upped to 11 games, but he will play this season. Two thoughts
1) Pathetic that an (alleged) serial sexual assualter is suspended for less than a season, and rewarded with one of the richest contracts in the league.
2) consensus was that the Browns would make a play for Garopalo if Watson were suspended for the season. Maybe they make 2/3 of a play?
BC
I read that if he was suspended for ten or more games, Cleveland would go after Garoppolo. On the other hand, Garoppolo's vanishing act is getting extensive play. Maybe that's getting some publicity. And it's so near to the season, you'd think Cleveland would want to get him up to speed on the playbook -- which is supposedly very similar to the Niners' playbook.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Goose - 08-18-2022
(08-18-2022, 10:24 AM)BostonCard Wrote: Watson’s suspension was upped to 11 games, but he will play this season. Two thoughtsAnyone with interest in Garoppolo is waiting for him to be released. The niners undoubtedly want something in a trade. Garoppolo won't play for a veteran minimum and in a trade "somebody" would have to pay his full salary. It is unknown if he is really fully recovered from injury. Nobody is going to take on his full salary and give up a player to get so many unknowns. After he is released, they can get him without committing to his current salary and without giving up anything in trade.
1) Pathetic that an (alleged) serial sexual assualter is suspended for less than a season, and rewarded with one of the richest contracts in the league.
2) consensus was that the Browns would make a play for Garopalo if Watson were suspended for the season. Maybe they make 2/3 of a play?
BC
He probably has little interest in going to the Browns to play 2/3 of a season in an offense he doesn't know for an organization that is at best questionable. There is some talk he might end up in Seattle, but for sure they are waiting for him to be released. Nobody sees him as a "can't miss" quarterback of the future. He is a project that could yield a big reward at little cost, but a must have he isn't. As an emergency injury/suspension replacement, he is too expensive and will undoubtedly not be ready to play in the first regular season game.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Mick - 08-18-2022
(08-18-2022, 10:41 AM)Goose Wrote: Anyone with interest in Garoppolo is waiting for him to be released. The niners undoubtedly want something in a trade. Garoppolo won't play for a veteran minimum and in a trade "somebody" would have to pay his full salary. It is unknown if he is really fully recovered from injury. Nobody is going to take on his full salary and give up a player to get so many unknowns. After he is released, they can get him without committing to his current salary and without giving up anything in trade.
He probably has little interest in going to the Browns to play 2/3 of a season in an offense he doesn't know for an organization that is at best questionable. There is some talk he might end up in Seattle, but for sure they are waiting for him to be released. Nobody sees him as a "can't miss" quarterback of the future. He is a project that could yield a big reward at little cost, but a must have he isn't. As an emergency injury/suspension replacement, he is too expensive and will undoubtedly not be ready to play in the first regular season game.
I think the 49ers would take a 2028 7th round draft choice in exchange for Garoppolo, and would be willing to pick up a hefty chunk of his contract. I think they don't want to release him to prevent Jimmy G from going to Seattle.
Cleveland's playbook is very similar to that of the 49ers. Without Watson or Garoppolo, Cleveland is not a playoff team. With Watson or Garoppolo, they are almost assuredly a playoff team. I don't know that Jimmy G is a "must have" but he was in the Super Bowl and an NFC title game when he was healthy, so he has some chops.
He is expensive, but Cleveland is $48 mms. under the cap, so they can afford him.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Goose - 08-18-2022
(08-18-2022, 11:01 AM)Mick Wrote: I think the 49ers would take a 2028 7th round draft choice in exchange for Garoppolo, and would be willing to pick up a hefty chunk of his contract. I think they don't want to release him to prevent Jimmy G from going to Seattle.I think you may be partially correct here. The niners would probably gladly send him to the Jets and pay part of his salary if that option were available.
Quote:Cleveland's playbook is very similar to that of the 49ers. Without Watson or Garoppolo, Cleveland is not a playoff team. With Watson or Garoppolo, they are almost assuredly a playoff team. I don't know that Jimmy G is a "must have" but he was in the Super Bowl and an NFC title game when he was healthy, so he has some chops.The problems in this are that 1) Garoppolo's health is unknown. He hasn't been practicing. How quickly he could be effective for the Browns is unclear. Can he be ready by the opener? If they lose several games bringing their QB up to speed, they might not be a playoff team. 2) It would be a total "rent a player" situation which would put Garoppolo in a bad spot. He would need to perform well to get a good free agent gig the next year. Undoubtedly he would like the money this year, but looking down the road he is now much better off if he is released and can find his own team where he may have a future. The Browns are emphatically not that. Maybe Seattle is, maybe somewhere else. He isn't going to help with a trade to the Browns (or the Jets for that matter).
He is expensive, but Cleveland is $48 mms. under the cap, so they can afford him.
lex24 - lex24 - 08-19-2022
(08-18-2022, 11:34 AM)Goose Wrote:(08-18-2022, 11:01 AM)Mick Wrote: I think the 49ers would take a 2028 7th round draft choice in exchange for Garoppolo, and would be willing to pick up a hefty chunk of his contract. I think they don't want to release him to prevent Jimmy G from going to Seattle.I think you may be partially correct here. The niners would probably gladly send him to the Jets and pay part of his salary if that option were available.
Quote:Cleveland's playbook is very similar to that of the 49ers. Without Watson or Garoppolo, Cleveland is not a playoff team. With Watson or Garoppolo, they are almost assuredly a playoff team. I don't know that Jimmy G is a "must have" but he was in the Super Bowl and an NFC title game when he was healthy, so he has some chops.The problems in this are that 1) Garoppolo's health is unknown. He hasn't been practicing. How quickly he could be effective for the Browns is unclear. Can he be ready by the opener? If they lose several games bringing their QB up to speed, they might not be a playoff team. 2) It would be a total "rent a player" situation which would put Garoppolo in a bad spot. He would need to perform well to get a good free agent gig the next year. Undoubtedly he would like the money this year, but looking down the road he is now much better off if he is released and can find his own team where he may have a future. The Browns are emphatically not that. Maybe Seattle is, maybe somewhere else. He isn't going to help with a trade to the Browns (or the Jets for that matter).
He is expensive, but Cleveland is $48 mms. under the cap, so they can afford him.
Any trade will be contingent on him passing a physical. The Browns make sense in that they are playoff ready team. Brisset is not good. JG can learn the playbook quickly. Time with teammates more important. Which is why if a deal is done, imo it’s going to happen quickly. Niners may be able to get a conditional draft pick. Say 5th 6th round. Particularly if they eat a portion of his contract.
Probably last chance to deal him. Otherwise he will be released and sign with Seattle.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Phogge - 08-19-2022
Seattle sucks with or without Garapolo.
I still say that Lance won’t finish out the season. Purdy takes over and is MVP of the Super Bowl. Book it.
And Shaw is national COY.
LOL
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 08-19-2022
(08-17-2022, 09:26 AM)Phogge Wrote: Niners cut Nkemdice (sp). Interior DL is becoming an issue. OF’s guy, Kinlaw has a lot of pressure put upon him and in the regular season has done nothing. Yeah, yeah he’s always hurt but that’s a part of the problem.
Armstead will be back next week. Ridgeway is already back.
As for Kinlaw, his injury was an ACL, not anything to do with cartilage AFIK, which absolutely can be a recurring problem. That's what I thought it was last year given his knee was bothering him and ACL injury was not yet determined to be the cause until they shelved him for ACL surgery.
Of course, if Kinlaw did have previous cartilage damage, concern for his knee would exist. Are you aware of his knee history beyond the ACL surgery?
RE: lex24 - Goose - 08-19-2022
(08-19-2022, 07:27 AM)lex24 Wrote: Any trade will be contingent on him passing a physical.True, but as we all know players can be "physically able to perform" and not be actually ready to do so. If it were May and not August that would be less of a concern, because JG would have time to work up to playing condition. Since he hasn't practiced with the niners, nobody knows how ready to play he actually may be. Big risk there if you need him 100% ready to go for the first game.
Quote:The Browns make sense in that they are playoff ready team. Brisset is not good. JG can learn the playbook quickly. Time with teammates more important. Which is why if a deal is done, imo it’s going to happen quickly. Niners may be able to get a conditional draft pick. Say 5th 6th round. Particularly if they eat a portion of his contract.A lot depends on whether JG sees going to the Browns as an opportunity to "prove" he is a good QB. It also means he gets paid this year. He isn't a "long term" choice for the Browns. I don't see how being at the Browns for 2/3 of a season will help him going forward even if he plays well. It is also the Browns, an organization that definitely will give him pause. If he doesn't want it to happen, it won't happen.
Quote:I agree it is probably the Browns or release him. If one thinks he is a candidate for the Seattle job, he will end up there next season (best case) from the niners point of view. Is delaying that event by a year worth say 10 million dollars? From where I sit, I would say no. I am not even convinced that JG would end up in Seattle if released. They are not exactly a team that is built around JGs skill set. Wilson survived because he could move in the pocket (or outside the pocket if necessary). That never was JGs strength and certainly isn't now. It is also unclear where that franchise is going. How long will Pete the Cheat be there, and after him, who knows what happens? JG may end up there, but it is a not necessarily an "obvious" outcome.
Probably last chance to deal him. Otherwise he will be released and sign with Seattle.
RE: lex24 - lex24 - 08-20-2022
(08-19-2022, 08:22 AM)Goose Wrote:(08-19-2022, 07:27 AM)lex24 Wrote: Any trade will be contingent on him passing a physical.True, but as we all know players can be "physically able to perform" and not be actually ready to do so. If it were May and not August that would be less of a concern, because JG would have time to work up to playing condition. Since he hasn't practiced with the niners, nobody knows how ready to play he actually may be. Big risk there if you need him 100% ready to go for the first game.
Quote:The Browns make sense in that they are playoff ready team. Brisset is not good. JG can learn the playbook quickly. Time with teammates more important. Which is why if a deal is done, imo it’s going to happen quickly. Niners may be able to get a conditional draft pick. Say 5th 6th round. Particularly if they eat a portion of his contract.A lot depends on whether JG sees going to the Browns as an opportunity to "prove" he is a good QB. It also means he gets paid this year. He isn't a "long term" choice for the Browns. I don't see how being at the Browns for 2/3 of a season will help him going forward even if he plays well. It is also the Browns, an organization that definitely will give him pause. If he doesn't want it to happen, it won't happen.
Quote:I agree it is probably the Browns or release him. If one thinks he is a candidate for the Seattle job, he will end up there next season (best case) from the niners point of view. Is delaying that event by a year worth say 10 million dollars? From where I sit, I would say no. I am not even convinced that JG would end up in Seattle if released. They are not exactly a team that is built around JGs skill set. Wilson survived because he could move in the pocket (or outside the pocket if necessary). That never was JGs strength and certainly isn't now. It is also unclear where that franchise is going. How long will Pete the Cheat be there, and after him, who knows what happens? JG may end up there, but it is a not necessarily an "obvious" outcome.
Probably last chance to deal him. Otherwise he will be released and sign with Seattle.
“If he doesn't want it to happen, it won't happen.” Don’t understand this one. He doesn’t have a no trade clause anymore. So, if he’s traded, he essentially has no choice. And the Niners will do what’s best for the organization.
RE: lex24 - Goose - 08-20-2022
(08-20-2022, 03:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: “If he doesn't want it to happen, it won't happen.” Don’t understand this one. He doesn’t have a no trade clause anymore. So, if he’s traded, he essentially has no choice. And the Niners will do what’s best for the organization.The Niners can indeed trade him. However, if he makes it crystal clear to the Browns that he doesn't want to be there and isn't going to put forth the maximal effort it will take to get ready for the opener, they aren't going to do it. You need your QB to be a leader and the Browns are fully aware due to recent experience that a malcontent won't cut it. JG can say "Nothing personal, but I am not going to play for you". If he does that, they won't go there.
RE: lex24 - lex24 - 08-20-2022
(08-20-2022, 04:35 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-20-2022, 03:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: “If he doesn't want it to happen, it won't happen.” Don’t understand this one. He doesn’t have a no trade clause anymore. So, if he’s traded, he essentially has no choice. And the Niners will do what’s best for the organization.The Niners can indeed trade him. However, if he makes it crystal clear to the Browns that he doesn't want to be there and isn't going to put forth the maximal effort it will take to get ready for the opener, they aren't going to do it. You need your QB to be a leader and the Browns are fully aware due to recent experience that a malcontent won't cut it. JG can say "Nothing personal, but I am not going to play for you". If he does that, they won't go there.
Not gonna happen. JG doesn’t have that kind of juice. And a malcontent he isn’t. Finally, he loses a boatload of money if he’s released.
RE: lex24 - Goose - 08-20-2022
(08-20-2022, 05:45 PM)lex24 Wrote:You are correct that he loses a boatload of money. And I agree he is not a malcontent. The tradeoff for him is what effect going to Cleveland would have on his future employment. As we know, he is coming off an injury. He probably has little insight on what is actually the state of affairs with the Browns, but I would suspect it isn't a "sure thing" he will be successful there. I think it much more probable things will not go well there, at least right out of the gate. If he goes to the Browns and stinks, even if it isn't his fault, it is going to seriously compromise him going forward. What is that worth to him?(08-20-2022, 04:35 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-20-2022, 03:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: “If he doesn't want it to happen, it won't happen.” Don’t understand this one. He doesn’t have a no trade clause anymore. So, if he’s traded, he essentially has no choice. And the Niners will do what’s best for the organization.The Niners can indeed trade him. However, if he makes it crystal clear to the Browns that he doesn't want to be there and isn't going to put forth the maximal effort it will take to get ready for the opener, they aren't going to do it. You need your QB to be a leader and the Browns are fully aware due to recent experience that a malcontent won't cut it. JG can say "Nothing personal, but I am not going to play for you". If he does that, they won't go there.
Not gonna happen. JG doesn’t have that kind of juice. And a malcontent he isn’t. Finally, he loses a boatload of money if he’s released.
I absolutely do think he has that kind of juice if he really doesn't want to go. Obviously this would be a "rent a player" deal. 11 games. Lots of ways for him to make it clear to Cleveland this isn't a good idea for them. They need him to be "all in" for this to work and be worth the 22 million dollars. If he clearly isn't, no go. Obviously, I don't know for sure what JG is thinking, but I suspect he would rather go to Seattle as a free agent for 13 million and have a future than going to the Browns for 22 million and not.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Phogge - 08-20-2022
OF's best pal Kinlaw actually makes a play. Can he continue?
I was impressed with Poe who looks like a road grader. However he was playing against reserves.
Sud, Hanson and the two rookie RB's impressive. Sermon not.
RE: lex24 - lex24 - 08-21-2022
(08-20-2022, 06:28 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-20-2022, 05:45 PM)lex24 Wrote:You are correct that he loses a boatload of money. And I agree he is not a malcontent. The tradeoff for him is what effect going to Cleveland would have on his future employment. As we know, he is coming off an injury. He probably has little insight on what is actually the state of affairs with the Browns, but I would suspect it isn't a "sure thing" he will be successful there. I think it much more probable things will not go well there, at least right out of the gate. If he goes to the Browns and stinks, even if it isn't his fault, it is going to seriously compromise him going forward. What is that worth to him?(08-20-2022, 04:35 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-20-2022, 03:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: “If he doesn't want it to happen, it won't happen.” Don’t understand this one. He doesn’t have a no trade clause anymore. So, if he’s traded, he essentially has no choice. And the Niners will do what’s best for the organization.The Niners can indeed trade him. However, if he makes it crystal clear to the Browns that he doesn't want to be there and isn't going to put forth the maximal effort it will take to get ready for the opener, they aren't going to do it. You need your QB to be a leader and the Browns are fully aware due to recent experience that a malcontent won't cut it. JG can say "Nothing personal, but I am not going to play for you". If he does that, they won't go there.
Not gonna happen. JG doesn’t have that kind of juice. And a malcontent he isn’t. Finally, he loses a boatload of money if he’s released.
I absolutely do think he has that kind of juice if he really doesn't want to go. Obviously this would be a "rent a player" deal. 11 games. Lots of ways for him to make it clear to Cleveland this isn't a good idea for them. They need him to be "all in" for this to work and be worth the 22 million dollars. If he clearly isn't, no go. Obviously, I don't know for sure what JG is thinking, but I suspect he would rather go to Seattle as a free agent for 13 million and have a future than going to the Browns for 22 million and not.
Browns are a better team. Seattle is not going to be very good. Curious where you come up with 13 million?
RE: lex24 - Goose - 08-21-2022
(08-21-2022, 08:06 AM)lex24 Wrote: Browns are a better team. Seattle is not going to be very good. Curious where you come up with 13 million?I am guessing that since Seattle isn't going to be very good they can afford to pay for a QB. Obviously it isn't a sure thing they want JG, but if they do it isn't for just a year. He has some leverage there and Seattle will be trying to show the fans they are serious. The 13 million was a number I thought JG could get for the first year of some kind of multi-year deal. There would be team options and player options to water down the risk to both parties.
While the Browns are (on paper) a better team, there are expectations there that may be beyond what a list-minute starter for 11 games can deliver. For JG, the best option is a medium term contract with a team that can be good but that right now isn't expected to be. Going to the Browns on an 11 game deal can mess up his future. IMHO not worth the risk if he can get a "good" deal elsewhere.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 08-22-2022
(08-20-2022, 11:29 PM)Phogge Wrote: OF's best pal Kinlaw actually makes a play. Can he continue?
I was impressed with Poe who looks like a road grader. However he was playing against reserves.
Sud, Hanson and the two rookie RB's impressive. Sermon not.
Kinlaw was asked by a reporter after the game on Saturday, if he gets treatment on his knee. He said he does not. He added this is the first time he has been pain free in the knee in a "long time... long time." He didn't even specify how long. Reading between the lines, I don't think his knee was right even in his rookie season and this is the first year he can show what he can actually do as a football player.
Kinlaw is clocking in at 6-5, 292 these days, and this is how he carries it.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/stragosaurus/status/1560323613437399044[/tweet]
RE: lex24 - lex24 - 08-22-2022
(08-21-2022, 04:32 PM)Goose Wrote:(08-21-2022, 08:06 AM)lex24 Wrote: Browns are a better team. Seattle is not going to be very good. Curious where you come up with 13 million?I am guessing that since Seattle isn't going to be very good they can afford to pay for a QB. Obviously it isn't a sure thing they want JG, but if they do it isn't for just a year. He has some leverage there and Seattle will be trying to show the fans they are serious. The 13 million was a number I thought JG could get for the first year of some kind of multi-year deal. There would be team options and player options to water down the risk to both parties.
While the Browns are (on paper) a better team, there are expectations there that may be beyond what a list-minute starter for 11 games can deliver. For JG, the best option is a medium term contract with a team that can be good but that right now isn't expected to be. Going to the Browns on an 11 game deal can mess up his future. IMHO not worth the risk if he can get a "good" deal elsewhere.
We can agree to disagree. Cleveland is perfect. They need leadership after the Bozo they had at QB last year. They have a terrific running game. They are a contender. He does not have to carry that team. Just manage games. Great situation for him. He plays well, he will be in a good position to sign a nice deal after the ‘23 season.
Question to me is whether the Browns want him. Not whether he will play for them if they do.
RE: OT: 2022 Niners thread - Phogge - 08-22-2022
Holy cow! Kinlaw is built like BobbbbbbbK!