End of Pac12? - Printable Version
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RE: End of Pac12? - OutsiderFan - 07-02-2022
According to John Canzano, at least one anonymous AD in the Pac knows what's up.
On the topic of the Pac and Big XII jockeying to be the #3 conference after the B1G and SEC: One of us will have to die for the other to be #3.
This is why Larry Scott's first move was to get Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Okie State, Texas Tech, and another to join the Pac and have 16 teams. He believed this would kill the Big XII, which the Pac needed to do to compete for the top of the market. He was correct. Everything happening today was precipitated by that not happening.
So who lives? The Pac or Big XII? Or maybe we get the BigPac?
RE: End of Pac12? - BigJohn043 - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 10:08 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: According to John Canzano, at least one anonymous AD in the Pac knows what's up.
On the topic of the Pac and Big XII jockeying to be the #3 conference after the B1G and SEC: One of us will have to die for the other to be #3.
This is why Larry Scott's first move was to get Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Okie State, Texas Tech, and another to join the Pac and have 16 teams. He believed this would kill the Big XII, which the Pac needed to do to compete for the top of the market. He was correct. Everything happening today was precipitated by that not happening.
So who lives? The Pac or Big XII? Or maybe we get the BigPac?
Right now the ACC is clearly #3. Lose Clemson & FSU and it will be close again....
RE: End of Pac12? - cardcrimson - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 10:08 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: According to John Canzano, at least one anonymous AD in the Pac knows what's up.
On the topic of the Pac and Big XII jockeying to be the #3 conference after the B1G and SEC: One of us will have to die for the other to be #3.
This is why Larry Scott's first move was to get Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Okie State, Texas Tech, and another to join the Pac and have 16 teams. He believed this would kill the Big XII, which the Pac needed to do to compete for the top of the market. He was correct. Everything happening today was precipitated by that not happening.
So who lives? The Pac or Big XII? Or maybe we get the BigPac?
That Larry Scott was a genius indeed. Moving up the Pac-12's bonus plan payout, including the $2.5 million bonus to himself, right before he laid off half the staff during Covid was a stroke of brilliance!
RE: End of Pac12? - CardinalSagehen - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 08:06 AM)BostonCard Wrote: ... I have been getting increasingly disillusioned so while I wouldn’t say this is the straw that broke the camel’s back, it is for me a convenient excuse to disengage.
BC
Oh, please!
I believe you think you mean it, but in a couple months, when the whistles blow, you'll be right back at it. ;-)
You'll watch despite all of this and despite our hurtling toward another two- or three-win season. It's a habit now, maybe even an addiction for some of us.
RE: End of Pac12? - qwerty49 - 07-02-2022
Interesting take by Dan Wetzel:
https://sports.yahoo.com/pac-12-acc-had-chance-to-save-themselves-botched-playoff-142405174.html
RE: End of Pac12? - cardcrimson - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 11:49 AM)qwerty49 Wrote: Interesting take by Dan Wetzel:
https://sports.yahoo.com/pac-12-acc-had-chance-to-save-themselves-botched-playoff-142405174.html
Just finished reading that as well. Odd that the Pac turned down the playoff, though it might have not been the new commish's choice at the time (did I read that it was nixed by the Beav's somehow?). Certainly a litany of h.u.g.e. mistakes over the last decade, no doubt. . . .
RE: End of Pac12? - TonyLima - 07-02-2022
One USC baseball player has decided playing in the frozen midwest doesn’t sound like much fun.
From @KendallRogers
This isn't the big news, but ...
@USC_Baseball second-leading hitter Tyresse Turner hit the portal wire late tonight. He hit .330 with 15 doubles, two triples, six homers and 33 RBIs this past season.
Tomorrow will be interesting.
https://d1baseball.com/top-stories/2021-22-d1baseball-transfer-tracker/
RE: End of Pac12? - grendalor - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 10:08 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: So who lives? The Pac or Big XII? Or maybe we get the BigPac?
Well, apparently, per media reports, the remaining Pac schools have "issues" with some of the B12 schools ... which most of us take as a veiled reference to Stanford, and perhaps Cal as well, not wanting affiliation with religious schools like Baylor and TCU. Both of those are kinda key programs in the remaining rump of the B12, though, so it makes a mega-merger less likely.
RE: End of Pac12? - cardcrimson - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 01:43 PM)grendalor Wrote: Well, apparently, per media reports, the remaining Pac schools have "issues" with some of the B12 schools ... which most of us take as a veiled reference to Stanford, and perhaps Cal as well, not wanting affiliation with religious schools like Baylor and TCU. Both of those are kinda key programs in the remaining rump of the B12, though, so it makes a mega-merger less likely.
Can someone explain why ND and BYU are okay to play against, yet Baylor and TCU are not?
RE: End of Pac12? - old spanish trail - 07-02-2022
I have never seen the religious arguement.....must have missed it. I have seen reference to scofflaws.
RE: End of Pac12? - BobK - 07-02-2022
We have played TCU in various sports. Baylor maybe only in the NCAAs
But is it religious reasons i doubt
Is it the cover up of rape and murder ? Could be.
Of course at one time we wouldn’t play BYU for racist/ religion reasons but that was long long ago
RE: End of Pac12? - Spiny_Norman - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 02:09 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(07-02-2022, 01:43 PM)grendalor Wrote: Well, apparently, per media reports, the remaining Pac schools have "issues" with some of the B12 schools ... which most of us take as a veiled reference to Stanford, and perhaps Cal as well, not wanting affiliation with religious schools like Baylor and TCU. Both of those are kinda key programs in the remaining rump of the B12, though, so it makes a mega-merger less likely.
Can someone explain why ND and BYU are okay to play against, yet Baylor and TCU are not?
I think the bigger issue might be aligning with a conference where only two current schools are members of the Association of American Universities ("an organization of American research universities devoted to maintaining a strong system of academic research and education"). It would not be a conference of academic peers.
In the Pac 12, 9 of the 12 schools are AAU members (all except ASU, OSU and WSU).
In the Big 10, 13 of the 14 schools are AAU members (all except Nebraska which was expelled as an AAU member in 2011).
In the Big 12, only 2 schools out of 10 are AAU members - Texas and Kansas. When UT leaves, it will only be KU (though Iowa State dropped its membership in 2022). None of the new schools being added (Houston, Cincinnati, BYU or Central Florida) are AAU members.
RE: End of Pac12? - old spanish trail - 07-02-2022
Yep to both you and Bob
RE: End of Pac12? - yvonne - 07-02-2022
I doubt that it would be religious reasons because we've played both Notre Dame and Boston College — and probably SCU back in the day.
RE: End of Pac12? - Canalejas - 07-02-2022
Sometimes people make a distinction between scheduling a school for OOC play, and sharing a home conference with them. Which I guess only matters if you think that your conference signals anything about the values/priorities of your school.
RE: End of Pac12? - Softball Fan - 07-02-2022
In regard to AAU membership as a criteria for joining Big-10.
Nebraska is the only school in Big-10 not a member of AAU and they were a member at the time of joining the Big-10. About 2 months later they were expelled from the AAU. I believe the only school to be forcibly rejected from AAU.
Ironically Notre Dame is not a member of AAU but the Big-10 can always make an exception for admission to its conference.
There were rumors a few years back if Oklahoma applied for membership to the Big-10 they would be rejected for not being an AAU member. Oklahoma never actually filled out an application to join the Big-10 so no one knows what the result would have been.
RE: End of Pac12? - Phogge - 07-02-2022
Apparently "religious tolerance" is selective.
RE: End of Pac12? - cardcrimson - 07-02-2022
An interesting take from the Pacific Northwest. Some really telling quotes:
"Had Larry Scott gotten the Pac-12 Networks on DirecTV to boost revenue … had he agreed to a shorter Tier 1 deal to allow the Pac-12 to renegotiate its media rights before the Big Ten … had he accepted a lifeboat from ESPN three years ago … none of this would have happened."
What say you, OF, he who says Scott couldn't have saved the Pac?
"In all candor, I believe this could mark the beginning of the end of major college football for the Bay Area schools. Their relatively low value within the college football marketplace is one reason for that bleak outlook."
Ah, the writer hit the nail on the head. If Shaw hadn't run the program into the ground, things would be a lot different. Finally a chance to blame Shaw for this debacle, and it comes from Seattle. .. .
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-football/pac-12-mailbag-kliavkoffs-culpability-expansion-options-wsus-connections-and-more%EF%BF%BC/
RE: End of Pac12? - TooMuchTV - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 06:57 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: An interesting take from the Pacific Northwest. Some really telling quotes:The writer is Jon Wilner. His column is syndicated to many news sites.
"Had Larry Scott gotten the Pac-12 Networks on DirecTV to boost revenue … had he agreed to a shorter Tier 1 deal to allow the Pac-12 to renegotiate its media rights before the Big Ten … had he accepted a lifeboat from ESPN three years ago … none of this would have happened."
What say you, OF, he who says Scott couldn't have saved the Pac?
"In all candor, I believe this could mark the beginning of the end of major college football for the Bay Area schools. Their relatively low value within the college football marketplace is one reason for that bleak outlook."
Ah, the writer hit the nail on the head. If Shaw hadn't run the program into the ground, things would be a lot different. Finally a chance to blame Shaw for this debacle, and it comes from Seattle. .. .
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-football/pac-12-mailbag-kliavkoffs-culpability-expansion-options-wsus-connections-and-more%EF%BF%BC/
Pac-12 on the brink: Could commish George Kliavkoff have done more? (mercurynews.com)
RE: End of Pac12? - Farm93 - 07-02-2022
(07-02-2022, 06:57 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: An interesting take from the Pacific Northwest. Some really telling quotes:The Bay Area apathy towards Cal football and Stanford football has very little to do with the quality of play on the field and a lot more to do with the demographics of the area. In many SEC states the football teams are absolutely everything to everyone even if the teams are not great.
"Had Larry Scott gotten the Pac-12 Networks on DirecTV to boost revenue … had he agreed to a shorter Tier 1 deal to allow the Pac-12 to renegotiate its media rights before the Big Ten … had he accepted a lifeboat from ESPN three years ago … none of this would have happened."
What say you, OF, he who says Scott couldn't have saved the Pac?
"In all candor, I believe this could mark the beginning of the end of major college football for the Bay Area schools. Their relatively low value within the college football marketplace is one reason for that bleak outlook."
Ah, the writer hit the nail on the head. If Shaw hadn't run the program into the ground, things would be a lot different. Finally a chance to blame Shaw for this debacle, and it comes from Seattle. .. .
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-football/pac-12-mailbag-kliavkoffs-culpability-expansion-options-wsus-connections-and-more%EF%BF%BC/
Even during Stanford's glorious Rose filled decade (2010s) most people living in the SF Bay Area had no interest in the program. Many of Bay Area's citizens are not from the Bay Area. The residents rarely have any interest in sports, and are not likely to waste a day eating burgers and popcorn in a local college football stadium.
The objective for a super conference is to find a lot of very loyal eyeballs that are super passionate about a program. Those that will pack a stadium for a kickoff at 10AM or 9PM and drive around town all season with banners and flags on their trucks. And perhaps most critically, they will be crappy goods and services just because some 18 year-old on the football team says they should. That's just not Stanford sports.
Ditch Shaw, ditch Haase, ditch Muir, or blame Larry and/or USC and/or Texas. It just doesn't matter. The demos are all wrong. Perhaps the best evidence of the problem emerged when Shaw was winning. Remember when David Shaw took Stanford to the second Pac-12 CG and no one came to a Friday night game at Stanford because...(insert excuses here)? Whatever excuse you use, it is exactly the type of thing a super conference wants to avoid.
I thought with CTE that Stanford might leave football before 2040. With NIL, transfer portals and super conferences I suspect the end of football at Stanford is coming soon.