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RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 09-22-2023
The weakest part of the 49ers is their OL. Doesn't surprise me that teams will blitz a lot.
Purdy's overall passer rating is ranked sixth in the league. His passer rating from last night would be third in the league. His rookie year passer rating (107.3) was only exceeded by Young once and Montana once over the course of a full season.
But, Purdy was a 7th round pick, Mr. Irrelevant, so let's just say that he's probably an okay quarterback, all things considered. Definitely behind Young, Montana, Brodie, Garcia, Kaepernick, DeBerg, Scott Bull, Steve Spurrier...for now.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 09-22-2023
(09-22-2023, 07:49 AM)Mick Wrote: The weakest part of the 49ers is their OL. Doesn't surprise me that teams will blitz a lot.
What sense does it make to blitz when you get beat by it so badly? If the OL is weak, it would make more sense to rush fewer guys and drop more into coverage like the Rams did.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-22-2023
(09-22-2023, 07:58 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(09-22-2023, 07:49 AM)Mick Wrote: The weakest part of the 49ers is their OL. Doesn't surprise me that teams will blitz a lot.
What sense does it make to blitz when you get beat by it so badly? If the OL is weak, it would make more sense to rush fewer guys and drop more into coverage like the Rams did.
Cause I thought they lacked a “hot read”…….
RE: 2023 Niners thread - BobK - 09-22-2023
Ahh good one Lex. I was at that chalk talk
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Giants - 09-22-2023
re: the Jones throw OB to avoid the sack by Greenlaw…
It was a highly intelligent play by the QB well within the rules of the game. If the QB of the team we root for had done the same thing, we would be applauding his quick thinking.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 09-22-2023
(09-22-2023, 11:06 AM)Giants Wrote: re: the Jones throw OB to avoid the sack by Greenlaw…
It was a highly intelligent play by the QB well within the rules of the game. If the QB of the team we root for had done the same thing, we would be applauding his quick thinking.
Sure didn't look like it went past the line of scrimmage. . . .
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 09-22-2023
(09-22-2023, 07:58 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(09-22-2023, 07:49 AM)Mick Wrote: The weakest part of the 49ers is their OL. Doesn't surprise me that teams will blitz a lot.
What sense does it make to blitz when you get beat by it so badly? If the OL is weak, it would make more sense to rush fewer guys and drop more into coverage like the Rams did.
Makes all the sense in the world. Focus resources at the weakest point, causing the unproven Mr. Irrelevant QB to possibly make bad throws and/or turnovers. If you rush fewer guys, the QB has more time to throw, giving the other team's All-World receivers more time to get open.
As for getting beaten so badly...all three of the 49er opponents so far have given up 30 points, blitz or no. First time that's happened to the 49ers offense in more than 30 years. In 1992, the Niners scored 31 in each of their first three games, but would score more than 27 in only two more of their remaining 15 games.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 09-22-2023
(09-22-2023, 12:20 PM)Mick Wrote:(09-22-2023, 07:58 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(09-22-2023, 07:49 AM)Mick Wrote: The weakest part of the 49ers is their OL. Doesn't surprise me that teams will blitz a lot.
What sense does it make to blitz when you get beat by it so badly? If the OL is weak, it would make more sense to rush fewer guys and drop more into coverage like the Rams did.
Makes all the sense in the world. Focus resources at the weakest point, causing the unproven Mr. Irrelevant QB to possibly make bad throws and/or turnovers. If you rush fewer guys, the QB has more time to throw, giving the other team's All-World receivers more time to get open.
As for getting beaten so badly...all three of the 49er opponents so far have given up 30 points, blitz or no. First time that's happened to the 49ers offense in more than 30 years. In 1992, the Niners scored 31 in each of their first three games, but would score more than 27 in only two more of their remaining 15 games.
To Lex's point, I thought I read somewhere that Niners don't have any hot reads to combat blitzes. Yes, Mick, it makes all the sense in world to attack the weakest point.
To your last point. I guess the Niners offense is doomed and the smart bets are on the under. Who was the OC for that team? Ruh roh.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Giants - 09-22-2023
cardcrimson dateline='[url=tel:1695407734' Wrote: 1695407734[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1695405987' Wrote: 1695405987[/url]']
re: the Jones throw OB to avoid the sack by Greenlaw…
It was a highly intelligent play by the QB well within the rules of the game. If the QB of the team we root for had done the same thing, we would be applauding his quick thinking.
Sure didn't look like it went past the line of scrimmage. . . .
I thought the same thing initially but the replay confirmed it went far enough.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 09-23-2023
The latest JTO video analysis of Purdy against the NYG: I don't know why teams keep blitzing him. So it's not just me saying blitzing him is a bad idea.
My prediction that the national sentiment about Purdy would change after TNF has pretty much come true. Some of the sentiments I saw expressed by national types on Friday:
- The guy is an AI bot
- He's a legit MVP candidate
- He processes things incredibly quickly
- His ceiling might not be that high, but his floor is incredibly high*
* I really don't even know what this means. If the floor is really high, at some point it is near or at the ceiling.
This is getting to my "revolutionize" point. What exactly is great QB play? If a guy wins every game he starts, has a 110+ passer rating with a 21-2 TD/INT ratio, and leads his team to 30+ PPG, how is he not at the ceiling? I mean because he doesn't make jaw-dropping runs, or throw 60 yd bombs, he can't have a high ceiling? What am I missing? Isn't the QB objective to win and lead your team to lots of points?
The idea that a guy with Purdy's seemingly unique abilities and pedigree, is still questioned because he doesn't remind us of anyone else who has had similar success, demonstrates his revolutionary nature. I mean two years ago, not a single NFL scout or personnel executive would be looking for a QB with Purdy's traits. How do I know this? Because he is producing as he is and people still can't believe their own eyes. How is it possible for someone to perform at the most challenging position in all of sports at the level Purdy has, and people still question him, or feel the need to say what he can't do, instead of zero in on what he can?
"He's not a great runner." "His arm isn't that strong." So F-ing what!?!?! And I don't buy the "he's a product of the system" bullshit either. If you perform at the level Purdy is performing, how, exactly, are running speed and arm strength the traits that give a QB a high ceiling? It sure seems, the real traits you want in a QB that provide the highest ceiling are what Purdy does great, not what he doesn't. It's almost like guys like Anthony Richardson could be a dying breed, the uber athletic QB who dazzles you with running, and mesmerizing physical traits, in favor of a more reliably consistent field general who is that way because he doesn't have those amazing physical gifts like Justin Fields, and to a degree even Zach Wilson and Trey Lance.
Two years ago, NFL scouts and personnel executives wouldn't even consider a guy with Purdy's traits. Now those same people are looking for QBs who have the traits Purdy has. It's not a revolution yet, because we'll need to see "Brock Purdy 2" for it to be the case, but it is revolutionary, and we should start to see evidence of this. Of course, it's also possible Purdy is one of one and a unicorn. I've been around too long and seen too much to think this is the case, but it's possible. But what will be fascinating is to see if QB training and development changes based on what Purdy has mastered. I need to study Tua Tagavailoa more to see if he reads things and makes decisions with anticipation on Par with Purdy.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-23-2023
Purdy’s skill set is: good feet, accurate, quick (and good) decision maker, good leader, unflappable, consistent, limits mistakes. In other words, the attributes of essentially every great QB I can think of since Sid Gilman and Bill Walsh began revolutionizing the passing game. Fouts, Montana, Young, Marino, Manning, Brady, Rogers Brees Elway Mahomes. There are athletic differences amongst these players. But those attributes I listed are universal among them
So, there is nothing “new” or revolutionary about his skill set. He just happens to have been the last guy picked, he’s not particularly big, and his raw athleticism doesn’t jump off the page. Perhaps he will be better than most within that skill set. Time will tell. So far, so good.
As for being a “system QB - let me ask a simple question: how well do you think he’d run Greg Romans offense (and yes, I get Roman is out of the league). Conversely, how well do you think Lamar Jackson would do in Shanahans system? All QBs play within a system. And need to be able to execute it. In fact, it’s job 1. Some systems just happen to be more quarterback friendly than others.
The evolution of the passing game from Walsh forward has been the deemphasis of Al Davis’s beloved “vertical game”. Rule changes coupled with WR ‘s now being (as opposed to RBs) the best athletes on the field have led to a shorter, quicker more”horizontal if you will passing game. Get it out to them in space and let them do their thing.
Then there is the change associated with “dual threat” QBs. Which I see as based in part on the fact that there are simply more great athletes at the college level playing QB. Along with the move to more spread style college offenses. So, some design their offenses to fit that skill set - a la Greg Roman. Cause that is your minor leagues and those are the QBs available.
Remember how Shanahan was mocked for wanting Kirk Cousins. Well, now maybe he has him to an extent. That is by no means a knock on Purdy. I would love to know what really went on in the draft room in ‘21. Cause I think it’s quite possible Shanahan wanted Mac Jones. As he “fit” better with what Shanahan’s offense is all about. Run the ball, manage the game, get it out quick and accurately to your playmakers. Don’t turn it over. It’s all about YAC. Throwing downfield is not a key component of his offense. Have to do it to keep defenses honest. But it’s not their bread and butter.
Perhaps the thinking was that Lance could do all the things necessary to run Shanahans offense AND have the added plus of being a great athlete that would extend plays, make some big plays down field. Then you have Mahomes. But first, he had to fit within Shanahans scheme. Apparently he could not. Purdy does. That’s by no means a “knock.”
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 09-23-2023
(09-23-2023, 12:45 PM)lex24 Wrote: Purdy’s skill set is: good feet, accurate, quick (and good) decision maker, good leader, unflappable, consistent, limits mistakes. In other words, the attributes of essentially every great QB I can think of since Sid Gilman and Bill Walsh began revolutionizing the passing game. Fouts, Montana, Young, Marino, Manning, Brady, Rogers Brees Elway Mahomes. There are athletic differences amongst these players. But those attributes I listed are universal among them
It's interesting...Purdy had a better passer rating in college than all of the quarterbacks you list, and had more yards rushing in college than all of the quarterbacks you list (including Mahomes). He also ran for a higher average than anyone except for Drew Brees. Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers had a similar rating.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - CompSci87 - 09-23-2023
I wonder how much Purdy has been underestimated just because he's rather baby-faced and slightly smaller than typical for a quarterback. He has that in common with Steph Curry -- but of course Purdy doesn't have something unique that will revolutionize the game or the position, like Curry's 3-point wizardry. He just seems very good at the main things a conventional (non dual threat) NFL QB has to do.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Giants - 09-23-2023
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1695498305' Wrote: 1695498305[/url]']
Purdy’s skill set is: good feet, accurate, quick (and good) decision maker, good leader, unflappable, consistent, limits mistakes. In other words, the attributes of essentially every great QB I can think of since Sid Gilman and Bill Walsh began revolutionizing the passing game. Fouts, Montana, Young, Marino, Manning, Brady, Rogers Brees Elway Mahomes. There are athletic differences amongst these players. But those attributes I listed are universal among them
So, there is nothing “new” or revolutionary about his skill set. He just happens to have been the last guy picked, he’s not particularly big, and his raw athleticism doesn’t jump off the page. Perhaps he will be better than most within that skill set. Time will tell. So far, so good.
As for being a “system QB - let me ask a simple question: how well do you think he’d run Greg Romans offense (and yes, I get Roman is out of the league). Conversely, how well do you think Lamar Jackson would do in Shanahans system? All QBs play within a system. And need to be able to execute it. In fact, it’s job 1. Some systems just happen to be more quarterback friendly than others.
The evolution of the passing game from Walsh forward has been the deemphasis of Al Davis’s beloved “vertical game”. Rule changes coupled with WR ‘s now being (as opposed to RBs) the best athletes on the field have led to a shorter, quicker more”horizontal if you will passing game. Get it out to them in space and let them do their thing.
Then there is the change associated with “dual threat” QBs. Which I see as based in part on the fact that there are simply more great athletes at the college level playing QB. Along with the move to more spread style college offenses. So, some design their offenses to fit that skill set - a la Greg Roman. Cause that is your minor leagues and those are the QBs available.
Remember how Shanahan was mocked for wanting Kirk Cousins. Well, now maybe he has him to an extent. That is by no means a knock on Purdy. I would love to know what really went on in the draft room in ‘21. Cause I think it’s quite possible Shanahan wanted Mac Jones. As he “fit” better with what Shanahan’s offense is all about. Run the ball, manage the game, get it out quick and accurately to your playmakers. Don’t turn it over. It’s all about YAC. Throwing downfield is not a key component of his offense. Have to do it to keep defenses honest. But it’s not their bread and butter.
Perhaps the thinking was that Lance could do all the things necessary to run Shanahans offense AND have the added plus of being a great athlete that would extend plays, make some big plays down field. Then you have Mahomes. But first, he had to fit within Shanahans scheme. Apparently he could not. Purdy does. That’s by no means a “knock.”
After losing to the Mahomes-led Chiefs in the SuperBowl, I think Shanahan wanted “his own Mahomes” and saw Lance as that guy. The problem was that Lance isn’t as fast or elusive as Mahomes. To not see that was a failure by the scouting dept. and, of course, Shanahan. Oh well, he got lucky with Purdy.
I agree 100% with you that Purdy is neither new nor revolutionary. He is a talented QB who has several major factors in his favor - he has the ability to process what he is seeing extraordinarily quickly, he is surrounded by some damn good players and he is working for the best play caller in the business. These are three things that a former SF QB (from western PA.) also had working for him. This is NOT to suggest Purdy in HOF material, that is a topic for a decade from now. In the meantime, I just enjoy watching him play. I just wish he had been picked with the penultimate choice in the draft so we would not have to listen to the Mr. Irrelevant nonsense.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-27-2023
Giants Wrote:lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1695498305' Wrote: 1695498305[/url]']
Purdy’s skill set is: good feet, accurate, quick (and good) decision maker, good leader, unflappable, consistent, limits mistakes. In other words, the attributes of essentially every great QB I can think of since Sid Gilman and Bill Walsh began revolutionizing the passing game. Fouts, Montana, Young, Marino, Manning, Brady, Rogers Brees Elway Mahomes. There are athletic differences amongst these players. But those attributes I listed are universal among them
So, there is nothing “new” or revolutionary about his skill set. He just happens to have been the last guy picked, he’s not particularly big, and his raw athleticism doesn’t jump off the page. Perhaps he will be better than most within that skill set. Time will tell. So far, so good.
As for being a “system QB - let me ask a simple question: how well do you think he’d run Greg Romans offense (and yes, I get Roman is out of the league). Conversely, how well do you think Lamar Jackson would do in Shanahans system? All QBs play within a system. And need to be able to execute it. In fact, it’s job 1. Some systems just happen to be more quarterback friendly than others.
The evolution of the passing game from Walsh forward has been the deemphasis of Al Davis’s beloved “vertical game”. Rule changes coupled with WR ‘s now being (as opposed to RBs) the best athletes on the field have led to a shorter, quicker more”horizontal if you will passing game. Get it out to them in space and let them do their thing.
Then there is the change associated with “dual threat” QBs. Which I see as based in part on the fact that there are simply more great athletes at the college level playing QB. Along with the move to more spread style college offenses. So, some design their offenses to fit that skill set - a la Greg Roman. Cause that is your minor leagues and those are the QBs available.
Remember how Shanahan was mocked for wanting Kirk Cousins. Well, now maybe he has him to an extent. That is by no means a knock on Purdy. I would love to know what really went on in the draft room in ‘21. Cause I think it’s quite possible Shanahan wanted Mac Jones. As he “fit” better with what Shanahan’s offense is all about. Run the ball, manage the game, get it out quick and accurately to your playmakers. Don’t turn it over. It’s all about YAC. Throwing downfield is not a key component of his offense. Have to do it to keep defenses honest. But it’s not their bread and butter.
Perhaps the thinking was that Lance could do all the things necessary to run Shanahans offense AND have the added plus of being a great athlete that would extend plays, make some big plays down field. Then you have Mahomes. But first, he had to fit within Shanahans scheme. Apparently he could not. Purdy does. That’s by no means a “knock.”
After losing to the Mahomes-led Chiefs in the SuperBowl, I think Shanahan wanted “his own Mahomes” and saw Lance as that guy. The problem was that Lance isn’t as fast or elusive as Mahomes. To not see that was a failure by the scouting dept. and, of course, Shanahan. Oh well, he got lucky with Purdy.
I agree 100% with you that Purdy is neither new nor revolutionary. He is a talented QB who has several major factors in his favor - he has the ability to process what he is seeing extraordinarily quickly, he is surrounded by some damn good players and he is working for the best play caller in the business. These are three things that a former SF QB (from western PA.) also had working for him. This is NOT to suggest Purdy in HOF material, that is a topic for a decade from now. In the meantime, I just enjoy watching him play. I just wish he had been picked with the penultimate choice in the draft so we would not have to listen to the Mr. Irrelevant nonsense.
Drafting a QB is so tough. Take a look at the Lance draft:
1 Lawrence. Clearly the best of the bunch. Had a good second half last year. He was as close to a “can’t miss” in the draft since Luck. Whether he reaches that promise is a question.
2. Wilson. Always be wary if a guy that comes out of nowhere. Wilson shot way up after a big season at BYU. He’s been awful. Not just on the field, but in the locker room. Lost respect of his teammates early on.
3. Lance. Nuff said.
4. Fields. Still a question. Great runner. But hasn’t produced as a passer.
5. Jones. Lowest ceiling of the group. Maybe highest floor save Lawrence. Question is, did he hit his ceiling in year 1.
This was supposed to be great QB class. It’s still early. But so far, not so good.
:
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 09-27-2023
The 2021 QB Draft class has not been wildly successful. Here's the current career passer ratings for QBs chosen in that class who have thrown 100 or more career passes, along with how their career rating would rank if it were applied to the 2023 NFL season. Just for grins, I added Mr. Purdy's 2023 rating. Seems that Lawrence has slightly improved; Fields and Wilson have regressed:
Purdy, 106.3 (4)
Jones, 88.8 (19)
Lance, 84.5 (22)
Lawrence, 83.5 (23, actual rank is 21 in 2023)
Mills, 83.3 (24)
Fields, 78.1 (26, actual rank is 31 in 2023)
Enlinger, 76.1 (27)
Wilson, 69.2 (30, actual rank is 34 in 2023)
I know passer rating is not dispositive, but it feels directionally correct. And for those of you who care about the Niner defense, their opponents' 2023 passer ratings are:
Pickett, Pitt, 80.2, #25
Stafford, Rams, 74.5, #27
Jones, NYG, 70.0, #29
This week's opponent, the Cardinals, has Joshua Dobbs, rating of 98.1, #9 overall. Should be interesting...
One other thought: Sam Darnold's career passer rating is 78.2, but his rating last year with Carolina was 92.6, which would translate to #14 in the NFL this year.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 09-28-2023
Of the quarterbacks who have passed for 700 or more yards, only two have zero interceptions: Brock Purdy and Justin Herbert. And Jimmy Garoppolo leads the NFL in interceptions with six.
Former Stanford running back Christian McCaffrey has more rushing yards than all but nine NFL teams.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 09-28-2023
Mick Wrote:Of the quarterbacks who have passed for 700 or more yards, only two have zero interceptions: Brock Purdy and Justin Herbert. And Jimmy Garoppolo leads the NFL in interceptions with six.NFC Offensive Player of the month.
Former Stanford running back Christian McCaffrey has more rushing yards than all but nine NFL teams.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 10-01-2023
Great TD catch by Stanford's Michael Wilson. Little flag route...perfect to run against Hufanga, who got there late.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - old spanish trail - 10-01-2023
And another TD by Wilson on 7 yd slant. Ariz making comeback.