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Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - jacketree - 01-03-2012

Someone who was at the game said he was drilling 50 yard field goals during warm ups.  Whatever was going on during the game appears to have been mental rather than physical.  He also hit a 30 yard FG earlier.  I don't know; Shaw must have thought he would come through. And I'm sure he had confidence they could handle OT if not.

Even in college, lots of coaches go for field goals of that distance with time and downs left. It wasn't as boneheaded as some make it out to be.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - jacketree - 01-03-2012

Someone who was at the game said he was drilling 50 yard field goals during warm ups.  Whatever was going on during the game appears to have been mental rather than physical.  He also hit a 30 yard FG earlier.  I don't know; Shaw must have thought he would come through. And I'm sure he had confidence they could handle OT if not.

Even in college, lots of coaches go for field goals of that distance with time and downs left. It wasn't as boneheaded as some make it out to be.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - jacketree - 01-03-2012

Someone who was at the game said he was drilling 50 yard field goals during warm ups.  Whatever was going on during the game appears to have been mental rather than physical.  He also hit a 30 yard FG earlier.  I don't know; Shaw must have thought he would come through. And I'm sure he had confidence they could handle OT if not.

Even in college, lots of coaches go for field goals of that distance with time and downs left. It wasn't as boneheaded as some make it out to be.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - jacketree - 01-03-2012

Someone who was at the game said he was drilling 50 yard field goals during warm ups.  Whatever was going on during the game appears to have been mental rather than physical.  He also hit a 30 yard FG earlier.  I don't know; Shaw must have thought he would come through. And I'm sure he had confidence they could handle OT if not.

Even in college, lots of coaches go for field goals of that distance with time and downs left. It wasn't as boneheaded as some make it out to be.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - DC - 01-03-2012

I meant how he looked in practice in the sessions before the game. 

I saw some of the warmup an hour before the game and the field goal kicking looked fine.  I wasn't paying attention to the distance of the kicks.

Because of the earlier missed short FG with an angle, Shaw probably figured a 35 yarder in the center of the field was easier than a 25 yarder from one of the hash marks.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - DC - 01-03-2012

I meant how he looked in practice in the sessions before the game. 

I saw some of the warmup an hour before the game and the field goal kicking looked fine.  I wasn't paying attention to the distance of the kicks.

Because of the earlier missed short FG with an angle, Shaw probably figured a 35 yarder in the center of the field was easier than a 25 yarder from one of the hash marks.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - DC - 01-03-2012

I meant how he looked in practice in the sessions before the game. 

I saw some of the warmup an hour before the game and the field goal kicking looked fine.  I wasn't paying attention to the distance of the kicks.

Because of the earlier missed short FG with an angle, Shaw probably figured a 35 yarder in the center of the field was easier than a 25 yarder from one of the hash marks.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - DC - 01-03-2012

I meant how he looked in practice in the sessions before the game. 

I saw some of the warmup an hour before the game and the field goal kicking looked fine.  I wasn't paying attention to the distance of the kicks.

Because of the earlier missed short FG with an angle, Shaw probably figured a 35 yarder in the center of the field was easier than a 25 yarder from one of the hash marks.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - washingtonismoney - 01-03-2012

(01-03-2012, 09:16 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Someone who was at the game said he was drilling 50 yard field goals during warm ups.  Whatever was going on during the game appears to have been mental rather than physical.  He also hit a 30 yard FG earlier.  I don't know; Shaw must have thought he would come through. And I'm sure he had confidence they could handle OT if not.

Even in college, lots of coaches go for field goals of that distance with time and downs left. It wasn't as boneheaded as some make it out to be.

But it has nothing to do with the likelihood of missing field goals. It's that you're throwing away at least 3 shots at the endzone; more, obviously, if you get the first (which is relevant because you have 3 timeouts at that point.) Since your first and most important duty in that situation isn't to control the clock but to score, foreclosing upon one of your most important options is not very smart at all.

EDIT: And of course that lots of people do something doesn't necessarily make it smart. see: bloodletting, pet rocks, the popularity of LMFAO and the Kardashians, etc.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - washingtonismoney - 01-03-2012

(01-03-2012, 09:16 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Someone who was at the game said he was drilling 50 yard field goals during warm ups.  Whatever was going on during the game appears to have been mental rather than physical.  He also hit a 30 yard FG earlier.  I don't know; Shaw must have thought he would come through. And I'm sure he had confidence they could handle OT if not.

Even in college, lots of coaches go for field goals of that distance with time and downs left. It wasn't as boneheaded as some make it out to be.

But it has nothing to do with the likelihood of missing field goals. It's that you're throwing away at least 3 shots at the endzone; more, obviously, if you get the first (which is relevant because you have 3 timeouts at that point.) Since your first and most important duty in that situation isn't to control the clock but to score, foreclosing upon one of your most important options is not very smart at all.

EDIT: And of course that lots of people do something doesn't necessarily make it smart. see: bloodletting, pet rocks, the popularity of LMFAO and the Kardashians, etc.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - washingtonismoney - 01-03-2012

(01-03-2012, 09:16 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Someone who was at the game said he was drilling 50 yard field goals during warm ups.  Whatever was going on during the game appears to have been mental rather than physical.  He also hit a 30 yard FG earlier.  I don't know; Shaw must have thought he would come through. And I'm sure he had confidence they could handle OT if not.

Even in college, lots of coaches go for field goals of that distance with time and downs left. It wasn't as boneheaded as some make it out to be.

But it has nothing to do with the likelihood of missing field goals. It's that you're throwing away at least 3 shots at the endzone; more, obviously, if you get the first (which is relevant because you have 3 timeouts at that point.) Since your first and most important duty in that situation isn't to control the clock but to score, foreclosing upon one of your most important options is not very smart at all.

EDIT: And of course that lots of people do something doesn't necessarily make it smart. see: bloodletting, pet rocks, the popularity of LMFAO and the Kardashians, etc.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - washingtonismoney - 01-03-2012

(01-03-2012, 09:16 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Someone who was at the game said he was drilling 50 yard field goals during warm ups.  Whatever was going on during the game appears to have been mental rather than physical.  He also hit a 30 yard FG earlier.  I don't know; Shaw must have thought he would come through. And I'm sure he had confidence they could handle OT if not.

Even in college, lots of coaches go for field goals of that distance with time and downs left. It wasn't as boneheaded as some make it out to be.

But it has nothing to do with the likelihood of missing field goals. It's that you're throwing away at least 3 shots at the endzone; more, obviously, if you get the first (which is relevant because you have 3 timeouts at that point.) Since your first and most important duty in that situation isn't to control the clock but to score, foreclosing upon one of your most important options is not very smart at all.

EDIT: And of course that lots of people do something doesn't necessarily make it smart. see: bloodletting, pet rocks, the popularity of LMFAO and the Kardashians, etc.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - NYC Poke - 01-03-2012

I usually hate the call to ice the kicker.  I say this as a football fan in general, not as a fan of a particular team.  It drags out an almost inevitable conclusion.  It's like watching the final 2 hours of the final ten seconds of an NBA game.  BORING!

As a fan of a particular team in this instance, I thought the TO was the right call.  I was preparing myself emotionally to deal with the loss, but I kind of had a feeling that we were owed one for the missed FG in Ames.  I know, it's stupid, but I did feel it.  I remember that much, though it may have been dizziness because I had not breathed regularly in the last three hours or so.

Good God, I can't really even write about this.  I did not sit through this entire game, and I watched it at home.  My entire day was spent on the road taking a new rescue horse to the vet for surgery to remove bone chips, and when I got home we were down 14-0.  I was literally rolling around on the floor for a lot of this game.

I'm not proud.

Anyway, so, yeah.  I believe the poker analogy is apropos, and I appreciate the comments of others who did as well.  I thought y'all had this game just like I thought we had escaped in Ames.

I couldn't hear the words "foot" and "ball" mentioned in the same paragraph for about a week afterwards.  You are better people than I am.





*I'm back in Texas due to an illness in the family, I grew up in Tulsa without horses, etc., this is all a little new to me, I'm more comfortable in an urban environment, but this is where I am now.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - NYC Poke - 01-03-2012

I usually hate the call to ice the kicker.  I say this as a football fan in general, not as a fan of a particular team.  It drags out an almost inevitable conclusion.  It's like watching the final 2 hours of the final ten seconds of an NBA game.  BORING!

As a fan of a particular team in this instance, I thought the TO was the right call.  I was preparing myself emotionally to deal with the loss, but I kind of had a feeling that we were owed one for the missed FG in Ames.  I know, it's stupid, but I did feel it.  I remember that much, though it may have been dizziness because I had not breathed regularly in the last three hours or so.

Good God, I can't really even write about this.  I did not sit through this entire game, and I watched it at home.  My entire day was spent on the road taking a new rescue horse to the vet for surgery to remove bone chips, and when I got home we were down 14-0.  I was literally rolling around on the floor for a lot of this game.

I'm not proud.

Anyway, so, yeah.  I believe the poker analogy is apropos, and I appreciate the comments of others who did as well.  I thought y'all had this game just like I thought we had escaped in Ames.

I couldn't hear the words "foot" and "ball" mentioned in the same paragraph for about a week afterwards.  You are better people than I am.





*I'm back in Texas due to an illness in the family, I grew up in Tulsa without horses, etc., this is all a little new to me, I'm more comfortable in an urban environment, but this is where I am now.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - NYC Poke - 01-03-2012

I usually hate the call to ice the kicker.  I say this as a football fan in general, not as a fan of a particular team.  It drags out an almost inevitable conclusion.  It's like watching the final 2 hours of the final ten seconds of an NBA game.  BORING!

As a fan of a particular team in this instance, I thought the TO was the right call.  I was preparing myself emotionally to deal with the loss, but I kind of had a feeling that we were owed one for the missed FG in Ames.  I know, it's stupid, but I did feel it.  I remember that much, though it may have been dizziness because I had not breathed regularly in the last three hours or so.

Good God, I can't really even write about this.  I did not sit through this entire game, and I watched it at home.  My entire day was spent on the road taking a new rescue horse to the vet for surgery to remove bone chips, and when I got home we were down 14-0.  I was literally rolling around on the floor for a lot of this game.

I'm not proud.

Anyway, so, yeah.  I believe the poker analogy is apropos, and I appreciate the comments of others who did as well.  I thought y'all had this game just like I thought we had escaped in Ames.

I couldn't hear the words "foot" and "ball" mentioned in the same paragraph for about a week afterwards.  You are better people than I am.





*I'm back in Texas due to an illness in the family, I grew up in Tulsa without horses, etc., this is all a little new to me, I'm more comfortable in an urban environment, but this is where I am now.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - NYC Poke - 01-03-2012

I usually hate the call to ice the kicker.  I say this as a football fan in general, not as a fan of a particular team.  It drags out an almost inevitable conclusion.  It's like watching the final 2 hours of the final ten seconds of an NBA game.  BORING!

As a fan of a particular team in this instance, I thought the TO was the right call.  I was preparing myself emotionally to deal with the loss, but I kind of had a feeling that we were owed one for the missed FG in Ames.  I know, it's stupid, but I did feel it.  I remember that much, though it may have been dizziness because I had not breathed regularly in the last three hours or so.

Good God, I can't really even write about this.  I did not sit through this entire game, and I watched it at home.  My entire day was spent on the road taking a new rescue horse to the vet for surgery to remove bone chips, and when I got home we were down 14-0.  I was literally rolling around on the floor for a lot of this game.

I'm not proud.

Anyway, so, yeah.  I believe the poker analogy is apropos, and I appreciate the comments of others who did as well.  I thought y'all had this game just like I thought we had escaped in Ames.

I couldn't hear the words "foot" and "ball" mentioned in the same paragraph for about a week afterwards.  You are better people than I am.





*I'm back in Texas due to an illness in the family, I grew up in Tulsa without horses, etc., this is all a little new to me, I'm more comfortable in an urban environment, but this is where I am now.

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - LuckE2Bhere - 01-04-2012

I think it's funny to see people suggest that Shaw should have gone for "7" (which implies that an extra point, albeit pretty meaningless in that scenario, is an absolute given, even though it's really just a 20 yard FG).  Do we really believe that with all of the things that can go wrong on a kick (or one of the pass plays that have also been suggested), a 20 yard PAT is a certainty, but a 35 yard FG is an irresponsible call?!?  Heck, the coach that won the game had the ball at the 1/2 yard-line in OT, then ran the ball to center it for a winning FG!  Should he have thrown 3 passes to Blackmon instead?!?

I really do understand the temptation to second-guess here, and I was just as disappointed in the outcome as the rest of you, but there's no seat in the house like that of the Monday (or Tuesday, in this case) Morning QB!

The other strategic point that has apparently been ignored here is the fundamental difference in clock management when running vs. throwing.  I don't think Shaw was trying NOT to score a TD, or even "center the kick" by running the ball (BTW, that penalty in OT sure made that last kick tougher!).  I believe that he understands that passing plays may take just a few seconds off of the clock (potentially allowing OSU to turn a decent kick return into a game-tying, or even winning if we miss our kick first, FG), or the receiver may be tackled in bounds and the play can obviously take longer.  When you run the ball, the offense truly controls the clock, because while you have fewer plays in which to gain the yards you may want (we didn't have much further to go, frankly), the clock is moving when the QB decides to snap the ball.

We were sitting in the cat-bird's seat, and Shaw chose a very reasonable strategy (in my view) that just didn't pan out.  Jordan's historical FG percentage, and Andrew's completion percentage, are important factors in that calculus, but they are certainly not guarantees of future results that might render his chosen strategy irrational any more than Jordan's reportedly spot-on pre-game kicks proved to be a justification for his decision.

Disappointing outcome.  Great game.  Great players.  Great coach... consider me grateful!

Here's to our heros heading to the NFL, those (including Jordan) who will be our heros next year, and those young men that are smart enough to chose Stanford come National LOI-signing day!

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - LuckE2Bhere - 01-04-2012

I think it's funny to see people suggest that Shaw should have gone for "7" (which implies that an extra point, albeit pretty meaningless in that scenario, is an absolute given, even though it's really just a 20 yard FG).  Do we really believe that with all of the things that can go wrong on a kick (or one of the pass plays that have also been suggested), a 20 yard PAT is a certainty, but a 35 yard FG is an irresponsible call?!?  Heck, the coach that won the game had the ball at the 1/2 yard-line in OT, then ran the ball to center it for a winning FG!  Should he have thrown 3 passes to Blackmon instead?!?

I really do understand the temptation to second-guess here, and I was just as disappointed in the outcome as the rest of you, but there's no seat in the house like that of the Monday (or Tuesday, in this case) Morning QB!

The other strategic point that has apparently been ignored here is the fundamental difference in clock management when running vs. throwing.  I don't think Shaw was trying NOT to score a TD, or even "center the kick" by running the ball (BTW, that penalty in OT sure made that last kick tougher!).  I believe that he understands that passing plays may take just a few seconds off of the clock (potentially allowing OSU to turn a decent kick return into a game-tying, or even winning if we miss our kick first, FG), or the receiver may be tackled in bounds and the play can obviously take longer.  When you run the ball, the offense truly controls the clock, because while you have fewer plays in which to gain the yards you may want (we didn't have much further to go, frankly), the clock is moving when the QB decides to snap the ball.

We were sitting in the cat-bird's seat, and Shaw chose a very reasonable strategy (in my view) that just didn't pan out.  Jordan's historical FG percentage, and Andrew's completion percentage, are important factors in that calculus, but they are certainly not guarantees of future results that might render his chosen strategy irrational any more than Jordan's reportedly spot-on pre-game kicks proved to be a justification for his decision.

Disappointing outcome.  Great game.  Great players.  Great coach... consider me grateful!

Here's to our heros heading to the NFL, those (including Jordan) who will be our heros next year, and those young men that are smart enough to chose Stanford come National LOI-signing day!

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - LuckE2Bhere - 01-04-2012

I think it's funny to see people suggest that Shaw should have gone for "7" (which implies that an extra point, albeit pretty meaningless in that scenario, is an absolute given, even though it's really just a 20 yard FG).  Do we really believe that with all of the things that can go wrong on a kick (or one of the pass plays that have also been suggested), a 20 yard PAT is a certainty, but a 35 yard FG is an irresponsible call?!?  Heck, the coach that won the game had the ball at the 1/2 yard-line in OT, then ran the ball to center it for a winning FG!  Should he have thrown 3 passes to Blackmon instead?!?

I really do understand the temptation to second-guess here, and I was just as disappointed in the outcome as the rest of you, but there's no seat in the house like that of the Monday (or Tuesday, in this case) Morning QB!

The other strategic point that has apparently been ignored here is the fundamental difference in clock management when running vs. throwing.  I don't think Shaw was trying NOT to score a TD, or even "center the kick" by running the ball (BTW, that penalty in OT sure made that last kick tougher!).  I believe that he understands that passing plays may take just a few seconds off of the clock (potentially allowing OSU to turn a decent kick return into a game-tying, or even winning if we miss our kick first, FG), or the receiver may be tackled in bounds and the play can obviously take longer.  When you run the ball, the offense truly controls the clock, because while you have fewer plays in which to gain the yards you may want (we didn't have much further to go, frankly), the clock is moving when the QB decides to snap the ball.

We were sitting in the cat-bird's seat, and Shaw chose a very reasonable strategy (in my view) that just didn't pan out.  Jordan's historical FG percentage, and Andrew's completion percentage, are important factors in that calculus, but they are certainly not guarantees of future results that might render his chosen strategy irrational any more than Jordan's reportedly spot-on pre-game kicks proved to be a justification for his decision.

Disappointing outcome.  Great game.  Great players.  Great coach... consider me grateful!

Here's to our heros heading to the NFL, those (including Jordan) who will be our heros next year, and those young men that are smart enough to chose Stanford come National LOI-signing day!

Re: You have Andrew Luck and you let 30 secs... - LuckE2Bhere - 01-04-2012

I think it's funny to see people suggest that Shaw should have gone for "7" (which implies that an extra point, albeit pretty meaningless in that scenario, is an absolute given, even though it's really just a 20 yard FG).  Do we really believe that with all of the things that can go wrong on a kick (or one of the pass plays that have also been suggested), a 20 yard PAT is a certainty, but a 35 yard FG is an irresponsible call?!?  Heck, the coach that won the game had the ball at the 1/2 yard-line in OT, then ran the ball to center it for a winning FG!  Should he have thrown 3 passes to Blackmon instead?!?

I really do understand the temptation to second-guess here, and I was just as disappointed in the outcome as the rest of you, but there's no seat in the house like that of the Monday (or Tuesday, in this case) Morning QB!

The other strategic point that has apparently been ignored here is the fundamental difference in clock management when running vs. throwing.  I don't think Shaw was trying NOT to score a TD, or even "center the kick" by running the ball (BTW, that penalty in OT sure made that last kick tougher!).  I believe that he understands that passing plays may take just a few seconds off of the clock (potentially allowing OSU to turn a decent kick return into a game-tying, or even winning if we miss our kick first, FG), or the receiver may be tackled in bounds and the play can obviously take longer.  When you run the ball, the offense truly controls the clock, because while you have fewer plays in which to gain the yards you may want (we didn't have much further to go, frankly), the clock is moving when the QB decides to snap the ball.

We were sitting in the cat-bird's seat, and Shaw chose a very reasonable strategy (in my view) that just didn't pan out.  Jordan's historical FG percentage, and Andrew's completion percentage, are important factors in that calculus, but they are certainly not guarantees of future results that might render his chosen strategy irrational any more than Jordan's reportedly spot-on pre-game kicks proved to be a justification for his decision.

Disappointing outcome.  Great game.  Great players.  Great coach... consider me grateful!

Here's to our heros heading to the NFL, those (including Jordan) who will be our heros next year, and those young men that are smart enough to chose Stanford come National LOI-signing day!