Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread (/thread-21717.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread (/thread-21717.html)
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 12-06-2021
Thank you Phogge. I so agree. Plus Jimmy drive the team 90 plus yards at the end
I’m ready for next week. Marching to the playoffs
lex24 - lex24 - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 07:19 AM)Phogge Wrote: Garropolo didn’t fumble on a kick return or not have a protective edge on the first punt. He didn’t cause Moseley to go down or Warner and Deebo to be out.
They now are going to have to pony up if there are any good corners in FA or make a stunning trade of a star to grab a corner.
There are a bunch of crappy playoff contenders in the NFC. With Jimmy they have a chance. With Lance they don’t.
Not suggesting they should make a change now. Too late. The time to do it was from day one. Also, when Walsh had Montana as a rookie, he had a package he’d use Montana in. Generally when inside the 20. Helped him get his feet wet, and I’m sure built some confidence. I had expected Shanahan to do something similar.
I will admit, some of my frustration is watching JG fixed like a statute and making high throws over the middle. Time and time again.
And some of it is wondering why they gave so much up for Lance only to sit him.
Also, a simple question: when is the last time you recall JG hitting a receiver deep (I mean 40 yards down field?). They don’t even try anymore. Their long TD passes generally are short throws with long runs. A la Kittle yesterday.
I realize the vertical passing game is not employed as it once was. But every once in a while …. If just to keep defenses honest.
RE: lex24 - Giants - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 09:23 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 07:19 AM)Phogge Wrote: Garropolo didn’t fumble on a kick return or not have a protective edge on the first punt. He didn’t cause Moseley to go down or Warner and Deebo to be out.
They now are going to have to pony up if there are any good corners in FA or make a stunning trade of a star to grab a corner.
There are a bunch of crappy playoff contenders in the NFC. With Jimmy they have a chance. With Lance they don’t.
Not suggesting they should make a change now. Too late. The time to do it was from day one. Also, when Walsh had Montana as a rookie, he had a package he’d use Montana in. Generally when inside the 20. Helped him get his feet wet, and I’m sure built some confidence. I had expected Shanahan to do something similar.
I will admit, some of my frustration is watching JG fixed like a statute and making high throws over the middle. Time and time again.
And some of it is wondering why they gave so much up for Lance only to sit him.
Also, a simple question: when is the last time you recall JG hitting a receiver deep (I mean 40 yards down field?). They don’t even try anymore. Their long TD passes generally are short throws with long runs. A la Kittle yesterday.
I realize the vertical passing game is not employed as it once was. But every once in a while …. If just to keep defenses honest.
The good news…
JG will leave after this season. Then we can see whether Lance was worth about the hoopla…..
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 12-06-2021
JG leaving seems like bad news to me. Of course 30-13 is poor I guess :)
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Giants - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 10:22 AM)BobK Wrote: JG leaving seems like bad news to me. Of course 30-13 is poor I guess :)
Super Bowl championships or bust, Bob……
lex24 - lex24 - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 10:22 AM)BobK Wrote: JG leaving seems like bad news to me. Of course 30-13 is poor I guess :)
He wins when things go well. When they are running successfully, when the defense clicks. Top NFL QBs figure out ways to win when things aren’t going well. JG doesn’t.
Plus that record is skewed by 2019. That was a loaded team. Best defense in league. Great running game. And yet, in the biggest moment he failed. Miserably.
He’s not a bad QB. He’s mediocre. And if the Niners had not traded their future for Lance, I’d probably not be so ready to see a change. But they did.
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 12-06-2021
And Lex they would probably be 3-9.
Ok so Jimmy leaves and Lance has an ACL in Game two next year. LOL.
RE: lex24 - DC 86 - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 09:23 AM)lex24 Wrote: Not suggesting they should make a change now. Too late. The time to do it was from day one. Also, when Walsh had Montana as a rookie, he had a package he’d use Montana in. Generally when inside the 20. Helped him get his feet wet, and I’m sure built some confidence. I had expected Shanahan to do something similar.
That was the plan and Shanahan used Lance is goal line packages in two of the first three games (Detroit, Green Bay).
At a recent press conference Shanahan was asked why he stopped using Lance and he said that it disrupted his play calling rhythm to have to adjust to defensive adjustments when he switched quarterbacks mid-game. So it's either that (entirely possible given how particular Shanahan is about play calling) or he's lost confidence in Lance's ability at the moment and is using that explanation so as not to throw him under the bus.
I'm pretty sure the plan was to use Lance in those packages while gradually playing him more and perhaps even making him the starter at some point this season. The fact that things went the other way would indicate that Lance simply wasn't ready to take on added responsibility and that the timetable for him replacing JG is longer than what the team initially projected.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 02:18 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 09:23 AM)lex24 Wrote: Not suggesting they should make a change now. Too late. The time to do it was from day one. Also, when Walsh had Montana as a rookie, he had a package he’d use Montana in. Generally when inside the 20. Helped him get his feet wet, and I’m sure built some confidence. I had expected Shanahan to do something similar.
That was the plan and Shanahan used Lance is goal line packages in two of the first three games (Detroit, Green Bay).
At a recent press conference Shanahan was asked why he stopped using Lance and he said that it disrupted his play calling rhythm to have to adjust to defensive adjustments when he switched quarterbacks mid-game. So it's either that (entirely possible given how particular Shanahan is about play calling) or he's lost confidence in Lance's ability at the moment and is using that explanation so as not to throw him under the bus.
I'm pretty sure the plan was to use Lance in those packages while gradually playing him more and perhaps even making him the starter at some point this season. The fact that things went the other way would indicate that Lance simply wasn't ready to take on added responsibility and that the timetable for him replacing JG is longer than what the team initially projected.
I think you are right. But I hope you are wrong….
(12-06-2021, 01:20 PM)Phogge Wrote: And Lex they would probably be 3-9.
Ok so Jimmy leaves and Lance has an ACL in Game two next year. LOL.
I doubt that. And it’s a foregone conclusion that JG will be gone next year. If he isn’t, that’s a “tell” that they blew it when they picked Lance. And if that’s the case, Lynch and Shanahan can start packing.
RE: lex24 - Giants - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 02:27 PM)lex24 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 02:18 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 09:23 AM)lex24 Wrote: Not suggesting they should make a change now. Too late. The time to do it was from day one. Also, when Walsh had Montana as a rookie, he had a package he’d use Montana in. Generally when inside the 20. Helped him get his feet wet, and I’m sure built some confidence. I had expected Shanahan to do something similar.
That was the plan and Shanahan used Lance is goal line packages in two of the first three games (Detroit, Green Bay).
At a recent press conference Shanahan was asked why he stopped using Lance and he said that it disrupted his play calling rhythm to have to adjust to defensive adjustments when he switched quarterbacks mid-game. So it's either that (entirely possible given how particular Shanahan is about play calling) or he's lost confidence in Lance's ability at the moment and is using that explanation so as not to throw him under the bus.
I'm pretty sure the plan was to use Lance in those packages while gradually playing him more and perhaps even making him the starter at some point this season. The fact that things went the other way would indicate that Lance simply wasn't ready to take on added responsibility and that the timetable for him replacing JG is longer than what the team initially projected.
I think you are right. But I hope you are wrong….
(12-06-2021, 01:20 PM)Phogge Wrote: And Lex they would probably be 3-9.
Ok so Jimmy leaves and Lance has an ACL in Game two next year. LOL.
I doubt that. And it’s a foregone conclusion that JG will be gone next year. If he isn’t, that’s a “tell” that they blew it when they picked Lance. And if that’s the case, Lynch and Shanahan can start packing.
Yep. The entire train is coupled to the Lance engine. Some might call it a big roll of the dice. I suggest it was a move that had to be done. At this point: JG - high floor/low ceiling; TL - low floor/high ceiling. I’ll take the latter every time.
RE: lex24 - CompSci87 - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 03:03 PM)Giants Wrote: [JG - high floor/low ceiling; TL - low floor/high ceiling. I’ll take the latter every time.
That must be tough on the heating bill
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - old spanish trail - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 07:26 AM)BobK Wrote: Thank you Phogge. I so agree. Plus Jimmy drive the team 90 plus yards at the end
I’m ready for next week. Marching to the playoffs
With you and Hogge
RE: lex24 - teejers1 - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 02:27 PM)lex24 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 02:18 PM)DC 86 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 09:23 AM)lex24 Wrote: Not suggesting they should make a change now. Too late. The time to do it was from day one. Also, when Walsh had Montana as a rookie, he had a package he’d use Montana in. Generally when inside the 20. Helped him get his feet wet, and I’m sure built some confidence. I had expected Shanahan to do something similar.
That was the plan and Shanahan used Lance is goal line packages in two of the first three games (Detroit, Green Bay).
At a recent press conference Shanahan was asked why he stopped using Lance and he said that it disrupted his play calling rhythm to have to adjust to defensive adjustments when he switched quarterbacks mid-game. So it's either that (entirely possible given how particular Shanahan is about play calling) or he's lost confidence in Lance's ability at the moment and is using that explanation so as not to throw him under the bus.
I'm pretty sure the plan was to use Lance in those packages while gradually playing him more and perhaps even making him the starter at some point this season. The fact that things went the other way would indicate that Lance simply wasn't ready to take on added responsibility and that the timetable for him replacing JG is longer than what the team initially projected.
I think you are right. But I hope you are wrong….
(12-06-2021, 01:20 PM)Phogge Wrote: And Lex they would probably be 3-9.
Ok so Jimmy leaves and Lance has an ACL in Game two next year. LOL.
I doubt that. And it’s a foregone conclusion that JG will be gone next year. If he isn’t, that’s a “tell” that they blew it when they picked Lance. And if that’s the case, Lynch and Shanahan can start packing.
Mostly agree with Lex's takes here; however, Green Bay GM still in town after drafting Rodgers' successor, so I don't view JG sticking around as insurance next season as any kind of "ticket out" for Shanahan or Lynch. [Interestingly, before Sunday, I heard Peter King opine that he thought the 'Niners for sure would keep Jimmy G and may even start him next year!].
Look, we all have to concede that those saying "Trey isn't ready" are doing so only based on the assumption that the coaches see him all the time in practice and genuinely want to win all the games (safe assumptions). But in the one game he played, Trey did fine, even in the L. I'm in camp that SF should have been inserting him in games all along.
As for the last game, I'm of a couple different minds: (i) the D had 4 takeaways - that should be sufficient for a W with even a pretty good team, (ii) the D made some awful plays (secondary play bad; some roughing penalties atrocious - that EOH scoring drive by Seattle was killer, and when I was convinced SF would lose the game), (iii) the special teams play . . . AWFUL, and (iv) Jimmy was mediocre. He could have covered up for a lot of team sins (including some of his own) by getting a TD at the end. Lastly, on the first and goal on that drive, Shanahan didn't do Jimmy any favors - running on 1st and 2nd down? Really? I'm sure Shanahan was hesitant to give Seattle any time for a final scoring drive, but it wasn't as if the 'Niners were running successfully against the Seahawks.
Agree 100% re: lack of the deep ball. WTH? This is the pros, and this QB can make that throw. So try it.
P.S. Call me crazy, but if the 'Niners make the playoffs, then I think they're a contender (assuming everyone is healthy - or at least the key guys).
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BostonCard - 12-06-2021
Are you equating Garopolo and Rogers?
BC
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - teejers1 - 12-07-2021
(12-06-2021, 10:19 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Are you equating Garopolo and Rogers?
BC
No. But that's irrelevant to the rebuttal point I was making to Lex's comment that drafting Trey and not playing him by Y2 means GM and coach must go. Just don't see why . . . ipse dixit.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-07-2021
(12-07-2021, 12:25 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 10:19 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Are you equating Garopolo and Rogers?
BC
No. But that's irrelevant to the rebuttal point I was making to Lex's comment that drafting Trey and not playing him by Y2 means GM and coach must go. Just don't see why . . . ipse dixit.
GB didn’t trade two first round future picks to move up to take a QB. There selection of a QB, stupid as it was, was for down the road in a couple years. It was not because they felt they needed an upgrade. Not an analogous situation.
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 12-07-2021
So now you have a need for at least one corner. (can’t count on Verrett next year). The best will be gone when you draft so you need to either trade or sign a FA. Good luck. The Niners won’t play Thomas right now and Lenoir was pulled in favor of the ultimate journeyman Johnson. You can’t move Williams because he’s one of the best nickels in the NFL.
Jimmy didn’t lose the game. The whole team did.
And the elephant in the room is what if Lance is hurt next year. Nate Sudfield? LOL.
lex24 - lex24 - 12-07-2021
(12-07-2021, 08:31 AM)Phogge Wrote: So now you have a need for at least one corner. (can’t count on Verrett next year). The best will be gone when you draft so you need to either trade or sign a FA. Good luck. The Niners won’t play Thomas right now and Lenoir was pulled in favor of the ultimate journeyman Johnson. You can’t move Williams because he’s one of the best nickels in the NFL.
Jimmy didn’t lose the game. The whole team did.
And the elephant in the room is what if Lance is hurt next year. Nate Sudfield? LOL.
All true. But when you invest as they did, you are all in. They will free up some $$$ getting rid of JG. So maybe they can get the corner on FA market.
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BostonCard - 12-07-2021
(12-07-2021, 12:25 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 10:19 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Are you equating Garopolo and Rogers?
BC
No. But that's irrelevant to the rebuttal point I was making to Lex's comment that drafting Trey and not playing him by Y2 means GM and coach must go. Just don't see why . . . ipse dixit.
Allowances can sometimes be made when you are transitioning a HoF QB, who is still performing at or near the top of the league. Rogers QBR is fifth in the league; his passer rating is fourth. Green Bay is 9-3 in the league, in first place in the NFC North. The Packers have a chance to win a championship this year, so it seems kind of silly to ditch your high performing QB, no? In fact, you’d be an idiot not to play Green Bay.
The situation in San Francisco is more tenuous. It’s not so much that the Niners should be playing Lance. If Garopolo (who is not playing all that badly) leads the team to the playoffs, the pressure will be off. But if you a) gave up a second round pick to land Garopolo, then signed him for a 5 year, $137 million contract, including a $7M signing bonus, $74M guaranteed, then draft his replacement after trading a curve-breaking three first round draft picks… and at the end of the process have little to show for it, people will wonder whether your team should remain coach/GM.
That being said, the Niners at 6-6 are tied with the WTF for the last playoff spot (the WTF has the better conference record, and thus the tiebreaker, at the moment), and sometimes QBs need a couple of years backing up before they are ready to start. Young famously sat on the bench behind Montana for four years. Aaron Rogers himself was Brett Farce’s back-up for three years. So, honestly, even if the Niners exercise the option on Garopolo for next year, I don’t think it’s a problem for Lynch/Shanahan, unless they fail to make the playoffs this year or next and Young is a bust.
BC
RE: Giants/Niners 2021 thread - qwerty49 - 12-08-2021
(12-07-2021, 10:34 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(12-07-2021, 12:25 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 10:19 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Are you equating Garopolo and Rogers?
BC
No. But that's irrelevant to the rebuttal point I was making to Lex's comment that drafting Trey and not playing him by Y2 means GM and coach must go. Just don't see why . . . ipse dixit.
Allowances can sometimes be made when you are transitioning a HoF QB, who is still performing at or near the top of the league. Rogers QBR is fifth in the league; his passer rating is fourth. Green Bay is 9-3 in the league, in first place in the NFC North. The Packers have a chance to win a championship this year, so it seems kind of silly to ditch your high performing QB, no? In fact, you’d be an idiot not to play Green Bay.
The situation in San Francisco is more tenuous. It’s not so much that the Niners should be playing Lance. If Garopolo (who is not playing all that badly) leads the team to the playoffs, the pressure will be off. But if you a) gave up a second round pick to land Garopolo, then signed him for a 5 year, $137 million contract, including a $7M signing bonus, $74M guaranteed, then draft his replacement after trading a curve-breaking three first round draft picks… and at the end of the process have little to show for it, people will wonder whether your team should remain coach/GM.
That being said, the Niners at 6-6 are tied with the WTF for the last playoff spot (the WTF has the better conference record, and thus the tiebreaker, at the moment), and sometimes QBs need a couple of years backing up before they are ready to start. Young famously sat on the bench behind Montana for four years. Aaron Rogers himself was Brett Farce’s back-up for three years. So, honestly, even if the Niners exercise the option on Garopolo for next year, I don’t think it’s a problem for Lynch/Shanahan, unless they fail to make the playoffs this year or next and Young is a bust.
BC
The WTF? Brett Farce? LOL BC attaboy!