WBB 2023-2024 Season - Printable Version
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RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Goose - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 03:24 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: I am sure that Gottlieb and her staff are hustling like no tomorrow for these elite players. But she has the support of her AD and University Admissions and likely other non-Athletics departments in her pursuit of transfers. It's the same alignment of support one would expect she has for high school recruits. Gottlieb has to compete against other schools for players. But she does not have to fight against her own university too.I am going to suggest another interpretation of the situation. Gottlieb is hustling like mad along with her staff and some boosters. USC has not traditionally exercised much institutional control on coaches who go out and do what they think it takes. It isn't necessary that the administration make a decision to help. It is much easier to just not get involved. I think history is on my side here :-).
Stanford is not the same. Coach VanDerveer's efforts (such as they are) may be thwarted by an administration that is reluctant to make changes to its practices to accommodate NIL and immediate transfers (as discussed extensively earlier in this thread).
I think it is more accurate and more appropriate to say that "USC is putting in the work to cut the rebuild of [its women's basketball program] into a few years vs 5-10 years." They have made an institutional commitment to Athletics while Stanford is still trying to decide what to do in this new environment. Stanford as a whole needs to be more aggressive (yes, including the coaching staff but also the AD and other campus leadership) to compete and be successful going forward.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - stopandpop - 04-24-2023
Getting a grad transfer from the Ivy League was probably our last best hope, but since that didn't happen we have to look forward.
I don't see Papadaki or Green contributing much in 2023-2024. Harriel's status is a mystery to me. Lepolo remains at point guard. Has she worked on her offensive game? We have no idea whether Fr. Chloe Claridy can be effective at the college level. Perhaps, but I see Tara bringing her along slowly. I think there is one player (depending on how she has improved in the off-season), who can have a real impact on the team and that is 6'2 Bosgana. I've always liked her game. She can drive, she's physical, she can shoot and defend. The problem last season was inconsistent playing time. I think Tara starts her as our shooting guard.
Jump, of course, starts at the wing, but I'm hoping 6'1 Fr. Courtney Ogden makes an immediate impact and forces Tara to play her more both at wing and forward. Ogden may become that additional scorer we so desperately need and might force teams not to crowd the paint and double team Brink. 6'2 Fr. Nunu Agara is physical, but I think she might be more of a 'project' - coming off the bench for short minutes or playing in garbage time.
Demetre was very inconsistent last season (13.5 minutes/game and 3.9 points/game). She had 3 games of 13, 17. and 15 points, but 10 games scoring 0 points. She is a decent defender, but not much of a rebounder (1.7/game). She'll come off the bench and conceivably Ogden can leapfrog over her in terms of minutes.
That leaves Iriafen and Brink, both of whom will start. I see 6'3 Iriafen expanding her game into more mid-range jumpers, which she has always been capable of doing. Her 12.1 minutes/game will go up as will her scoring (6.7/game) and rebounding (3.8/game). Iriafen will be a stud.
Then there's 6'5 Brink (yes, 6'5. I heard seveeral PAC-12 and ESPN announcers comment on her height; no way she's 6'4, and I saw her stand next to Prechtel and she was at least as tall as Ashten. In any event, we will have the pleasure of watching this elite player, consensus All-American, national defensive player of the year) in her final season. If she continues to reduce her vulnerability to fouling, we will be in for a treat. Brink will put the team on her back which I think will be good enough for 22 wins and finish in the top 4 of the PAC-12. I see her averaging over 20 points a game, 11 rebounds/game and lead the country in blocks. We will not see the likes of her in a Cardinal uniform for some time.
If we're going to go beyond that (host and win the 1st. two rounds of the NCAA Tournament and reach the Sweet 16), Brink and Iriafen need a decent freshman post to back them up. I've given up hope on the portal, so the only other avenue I see is Tara recruiting a big from overseas.
Is there any decent post left? Is this in Tara's plans? Or, are we stuck with the roster we have? Very anxious!
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - cardfan1996 - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 05:16 PM)cardfan1996 Wrote:(04-24-2023, 04:17 PM)BillBradley Wrote: [quote="cardfan1996" pid='388965' dateline='1682368245']Wow, a Final Four team? Seems like a big stretch. Awful lot to ask of their freshmen.
Gottlieb is putting in the work to cut the rebuild of USC into a few years vs 5-10 years. If she lands Morrow, they are a Final Four team IMO
It’s all speculation but I am very high on Morrow, specifically her ability to foul out your front court players. She was undersized and not even the UConn defense targeting her could stop her. She will be surrounded by 5* talent at USC. USC had all the defense in the world. They simply lacked offense and they just added Forbes, Padilla and Juju and others. Two experienced guards so not just throwing Juju who is a singular talent into the deep end of the ocean. If Morrow joins that front court, who do you double?
(04-24-2023, 05:15 PM)stopandpop Wrote: Getting a grad transfer from the Ivy League was probably our last best hope, but since that didn't happen we have to look forward.
I don't see Papadaki or Green contributing much in 2023-2024. Harriel's status is a mystery to me. Lepolo remains at point guard. Has she worked on her offensive game? We have no idea whether Fr. Chloe Claridy can be effective at the college level. Perhaps, but I see Tara bringing her along slowly. I think there is one player (depending on how she has improved in the off-season), who can have a real impact on the team and that is 6'2 Bosgana. I've always liked her game. She can drive, she's physical, she can shoot and defend. The problem last season was inconsistent playing time. I think Tara starts her as our shooting guard.
Jump, of course, starts at the wing, but I'm hoping 6'1 Fr. Courtney Ogden makes an immediate impact and forces Tara to play her more both at wing and forward. Ogden may become that additional scorer we so desperately need and might force teams not to crowd the paint and double team Brink. 6'2 Fr. Nunu Agara is physical, but I think she might be more of a 'project' - coming off the bench for short minutes or playing in garbage time.
Demetre was very inconsistent last season (13.5 minutes/game and 3.9 points/game). She had 3 games of 13, 17. and 15 points, but 10 games scoring 0 points. She is a decent defender, but not much of a rebounder (1.7/game). She'll come off the bench and conceivably Ogden can leapfrog over her in terms of minutes.
That leaves Iriafen and Brink, both of whom will start. I see 6'3 Iriafen expanding her game into more mid-range jumpers, which she has always been capable of doing. Her 12.1 minutes/game will go up as will her scoring (6.7/game) and rebounding (3.8/game). Iriafen will be a stud.
Then there's 6'5 Brink (yes, 6'5. I heard seveeral PAC-12 and ESPN announcers comment on her height; no way she's 6'4, and I saw her stand next to Prechtel and she was at least as tall as Ashten. In any event, we will have the pleasure of watching this elite player, consensus All-American, national defensive player of the year) in her final season. If she continues to reduce her vulnerability to fouling, we will be in for a treat. Brink will put the team on her back which I think will be good enough for 22 wins and finish in the top 4 of the PAC-12. I see her averaging over 20 points a game, 11 rebounds/game and lead the country in blocks. We will not see the likes of her in a Cardinal uniform for some time.
If we're going to go beyond that (host and win the 1st. two rounds of the NCAA Tournament and reach the Sweet 16), Brink and Iriafen need a decent freshman post to back them up. I've given up hope on the portal, so the only other avenue I see is Tara recruiting a big from overseas.
Is there any decent post left? Is this in Tara's plans? Or, are we stuck with the roster we have? Very anxious!
Maybe Stanford can cobble something together but if Lepolo is your point guard, she has limited ability to improve in a matter of months in the ways she needs to IMO which means so does your team. The point guard position is the single most important position in the NCAA tournament. Go back the last 10 years or more, the only point guard in recent memory that led her team to a championship that may qualify as a “non-shooter” was the guard (now WNBA player) on that 2017 S.Carolina, and Lepolo is obviously far less skilled than her. We cannot collectively go through another season of Lepolo’s defender in Cam’s and Kiki’s lap. I should say as competitive as we all know Cam to be, Cam will get frustrated very quickly, and well, you will need a strong locker room to keep your kids together. You have to hope there is someone better coming in (freshies) or sitting over there on the bench idle (Bosgana). And that your coaches will recognize something or someone is not working. They weren’t able to do that this season. I need to be convinced that they learned from this disaster year because their “idea” of what a point guard should be needs updating.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Softball Fan - 04-24-2023
This thread is like the energizer bunny; it just keeps going. From my perspective there is a big difference between this year's thread and last year's thread. Last year there were a small group of wannabe moderators who would try to stamp out any criticism of coaching and to a lesser extent criticism of players through intimidation and insults. That's no longer present and IMO is a change for the better. I enjoy the discussion and the fact that everyone is free to present their honest opinions. It's my opinion every regular thread poster here wants what they feel is best for Stanford even if they are frustrated the direction things seem to be going in the near term.
I'm somewhat a casual fan of WBB but still watch every Stanford game on TV or livestream with interest. Because I'm not as intense about the sport as others the losses didn't bother me so much. I can stay very interested in Stanford's team even if a FF is not a realistic goal every year. So a team in the #10 to #20 ranking range will continue to have appeal for me.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - joemontes - 04-25-2023
(04-24-2023, 04:53 PM)chimera Wrote: Why does it feel to me that most everyone has forgotten that Stanford was in the F4 in 2022 and won it all in 2021. It is still 2023, right? Not like this was all ancient history. I've made my position clear on the future of the sport and what it means for Stanford. Still and all, even if things are not rosy and the team may not be as good next year as it might be if the transfers had not happened, the cupboard is not bare, good recruits are coming in next year, and the team is probably not going to suck.I agree. My current assessment is they should still be a Top 25 team, maybe even in the T11 to T15 range.
However, they will have to make do with a post triumvirate of 6'4 BRINK, 6'3 IRIAFEN and 6'3 DEMETRE,
with 6'2 AGARA getting some garbage minutes. BRINK/IRIAFEN with either of them at the low post,
BRINK/DEMETRE with BRINK at the low post, and IRIAFEN/DEMETRE with IRIAFEN at the low post.
DEMETRE's almost forgotten signature shot, her turnaround midrange jumper, should be
of good use here.
Then you have the SF/SG wing triumvirate of 6'0 JUMP, 6'2 BOSGANA and 6'2 freshman OGDEN.
At PG, it's pretty much LEPOLO, with HARRIEL and hopefully CLARDY as back-up.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - joemontes - 04-25-2023
Meanwhile, former Oregon starting PG 5'9 Tehina PAO-PAO has transferred to South Carolina,
giving the Gamecocks much needed firepower from beyond the arc (42.2% last season)
and solidifying their guard lineup.
Here's South Carolina's updated 2023-2024 roster:
SF - Sahnya JAH 6'1 Fr (ESPN#40)
PF - Chloe KITTS 6'2 So (PN#4 ; ESPN #17)
PF - Sania FEAGIN 6'3 Jr (ESPN#4 ; PN #8)
PF - Ashlyn WATKINS 6'3 So (PN#9 ; ESPN#12)
CC - Kamilla CARDOSO 6'7 Sr (PN#4 ; ESPN#5)
PG - Raven JOHNSON 5'8 RS So (ESPN#2 ; PN#13)
PG - Tehina PAO-PAO 5'9 Sr (ESPN#11 ; PN#23)
PG - Talaysia COOPER 6'0 So (ESPN#18 ; PN#22)
PG - Milaysia FULWILEY 5'6 Fr (PN#3 ; ESPN#13)
SG - Bree HALL 6'0 Jr (ESPN#14 ; PN#55)
SG - Tessa JOHNSON 5'10 Fr (ESPN#25)
Well, with 5 Top 5 players / 7 Top 11 players / 10 Top 25 recruits
out of an 11-player roster, that's a tremendously good team
based on potential.
Remember that playing time over the past two seasons
was dominated by their 6 seniors so most of the upperclassmen
players hardly saw the court (except for Raven JOHNSON and
CARDOSO, as well as PAO-PAO in Oregon)
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BosCard - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 01:03 AM)joemontes Wrote:(04-24-2023, 04:53 PM)chimera Wrote: Why does it feel to me that most everyone has forgotten that Stanford was in the F4 in 2022 and won it all in 2021. It is still 2023, right? Not like this was all ancient history. I've made my position clear on the future of the sport and what it means for Stanford. Still and all, even if things are not rosy and the team may not be as good next year as it might be if the transfers had not happened, the cupboard is not bare, good recruits are coming in next year, and the team is probably not going to suck.I agree. My current assessment is they should still be a Top 25 team, maybe even in the T11 to T15 range.
However, they will have to make do with a post triumvirate of 6'4 BRINK, 6'3 IRIAFEN and 6'3 DEMETRE,
with 6'2 AGARA getting some garbage minutes. BRINK/IRIAFEN with either of them at the low post,
BRINK/DEMETRE with BRINK at the low post, and IRIAFEN/DEMETRE with IRIAFEN at the low post.
DEMETRE's almost forgotten signature shot, her turnaround midrange jumper, should be
of good use here.
Then you have the SF/SG wing triumvirate of 6'0 JUMP, 6'2 BOSGANA and 6'2 freshman OGDEN.
At PG, it's pretty much LEPOLO, with HARRIEL and hopefully CLARDY as back-up.
I am excited to see what this team can do. I agree with your rotations however I think Agara will see a decent amount of playing time. She fits very nicely at the 4 with Brink or Iriafen at the post. Agara is a physical rebounder/defender and that will be her primary role. However, she is a pretty decent 3-point shooter so she should be available for catch and shoots if Brink/Iriafen are double teamed.
My rationale for why we could be a better offensive team than last year is more consistency and rhythm. The lineups and roles will be more clear. Groups of players will be more used to be playing with each other. There won't be any more just give the ball to Jones at the end of the shot clock and hope she makes a miraculous shot. Iriafen/Demetre/Bosgana are all juniors which is around the time role players allow themselves to become primary scorers instead of deferring to upperclassman.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BillBradley - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 08:10 AM)BosCard Wrote:I also agree. Could be a great season. Expectations will be low and that's freeing. I don't buy the whole "Tara can't coach anymore" argument. Coaches can have seasons where they don't meet everyone's expectations. I don't know of any who haven't.(04-25-2023, 01:03 AM)joemontes Wrote:(04-24-2023, 04:53 PM)chimera Wrote: Why does it feel to me that most everyone has forgotten that Stanford was in the F4 in 2022 and won it all in 2021. It is still 2023, right? Not like this was all ancient history. I've made my position clear on the future of the sport and what it means for Stanford. Still and all, even if things are not rosy and the team may not be as good next year as it might be if the transfers had not happened, the cupboard is not bare, good recruits are coming in next year, and the team is probably not going to suck.I agree. My current assessment is they should still be a Top 25 team, maybe even in the T11 to T15 range.
However, they will have to make do with a post triumvirate of 6'4 BRINK, 6'3 IRIAFEN and 6'3 DEMETRE,
with 6'2 AGARA getting some garbage minutes. BRINK/IRIAFEN with either of them at the low post,
BRINK/DEMETRE with BRINK at the low post, and IRIAFEN/DEMETRE with IRIAFEN at the low post.
DEMETRE's almost forgotten signature shot, her turnaround midrange jumper, should be
of good use here.
Then you have the SF/SG wing triumvirate of 6'0 JUMP, 6'2 BOSGANA and 6'2 freshman OGDEN.
At PG, it's pretty much LEPOLO, with HARRIEL and hopefully CLARDY as back-up.
I am excited to see what this team can do. I agree with your rotations however I think Agara will see a decent amount of playing time. She fits very nicely at the 4 with Brink or Iriafen at the post. Agara is a physical rebounder/defender and that will be her primary role. However, she is a pretty decent 3-point shooter so she should be available for catch and shoots if Brink/Iriafen are double teamed.
My rationale for why we could be a better offensive team than last year is more consistency and rhythm. The lineups and roles will be more clear. Groups of players will be more used to be playing with each other. There won't be any more just give the ball to Jones at the end of the shot clock and hope she makes a miraculous shot. Iriafen/Demetre/Bosgana are all juniors which is around the time role players allow themselves to become primary scorers instead of deferring to upperclassman.
This past season's team was more Haley's than Cam's. Cam will be the unquestionable leader next year and I always like teams where the leader is also the team's best player and a senior, along with being a hard worker. The team will get behind her. I look for Lepolo to score more and Demetre to be possibly our leading scorer. She can really put it in the hole and now she'll have to. Hope she can step up. Kiki is going to have a nice year. She's really foul prone though and it will be important for her to stay on the court. That said, we'll have the best rebounder in the conference hopefully playing 30+ minutes a game, so we should be able to go small in spurts if we need to. I'm a Bosgana fan, but I really don't trust her 3 point shot yet. I'd like to see her be more of a slasher/attacker and create for others and not just dance on the perimeter.
On the down side, we are going to struggle defensively. I think that's the main reason why Bosgana didn't play much. Demetre can't stay with quicker players. Hannah has improved defensively but still not a strength.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Hoops9092 - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 06:53 AM)joemontes Wrote: Meanwhile, former Oregon starting PG 5'9 Tehina PAO-PAO has transferred to South Carolina,
giving the Gamecocks much needed firepower from beyond the arc (42.2% last season)
and solidifying their guard lineup.
Here's South Carolina's updated 2023-2024 roster:
SF - Sahnya JAH 6'1 Fr (ESPN#40)
PF - Chloe KITTS 6'2 So (PN#4 ; ESPN #17)
PF - Sania FEAGIN 6'3 Jr (ESPN#4 ; PN #8)
PF - Ashlyn WATKINS 6'3 So (PN#9 ; ESPN#12)
CC - Kamilla CARDOSO 6'7 Sr (PN#4 ; ESPN#5)
PG - Raven JOHNSON 5'8 RS So (ESPN#2 ; PN#13)
PG - Tehina PAO-PAO 5'9 Sr (ESPN#11 ; PN#23)
PG - Talaysia COOPER 6'0 So (ESPN#18 ; PN#22)
PG - Milaysia FULWILEY 5'6 Fr (PN#3 ; ESPN#13)
SG - Bree HALL 6'0 Jr (ESPN#14 ; PN#55)
SG - Tessa JOHNSON 5'10 Fr (ESPN#25)
Well, with 5 Top 5 players / 7 Top 11 players / 10 Top 25 recruits
out of an 11-player roster, that's a tremendously good team
based on potential.
Remember that playing time over the past two seasons
was dominated by their 6 seniors so most of the upperclassmen
players hardly saw the court (except for Raven JOHNSON and
CARDOSO, as well as PAO-PAO in Oregon)
That's a lot of quality PG's on one roster. Johnson was getting plenty of PT at the end of last season and Dawn had high praises for her. Then they add Fulwiley who is a big time, #1 PG recruit (#3 overall on Prospect Nation) and now Pao-Pao comes in (I suppose she can play off guard too).
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - treetop11 - 04-25-2023
Really discouraging to hear about those Ivy players going to SC and not us. Not so much those players specifically because I don't know much anything about them - moreso the fact that it seems like our coaches are either sitting on their hands or are not very effective. It seems like is no activity in trying to find replacements for the three who transferred out. Ideally, we would have found and gotten upgrades, fine with new players roguhly equivalent, or worse case decent, hard-working players available for practice, foul trouble or injuries. Sitting still with only 12 on the roster seems to be a lack of aggressiveness unlike for example the two SC's. And it is more troubling because there's no indication or news about a strong 2024 class.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BobK - 04-25-2023
Treetop you're on Rivals so you know we are looking. Check it again
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Jskass - 04-25-2023
wish people would replace the pix of Mulkey and her braids side by side w HVL with Brink and HVL. Dreaming that were a possibility.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Goose - 04-25-2023
I think that we all need to realize that graduate transfers have managed to accumulate their institution's equivalent of 180 units and have had an exposure to the "college experience". They are much better able to know what they want to be when they "grow up", as they basically have :-). Some grads will want to get admitted to a Stanford graduate program and get a degree from Stanford. Those players don't need "selling", and we have had several in other sports. There are others that would like to go to Stanford grad school but can't get in or Stanford doesn't have the program they want. Those students aren't coming because they basically can't.
There are also a whole lot of other students who don't much care if they get another degree and are just going to school to play more basketball and to have some fun along the way. The last thing they want is any kind of academically rigorous program and a "restrictive" social environment. They may want to make "contacts", but those contacts are more as internet influencers than venture capitalists. Stanford is not attractive to those in that situation, and nothing the coaches can say or do will change that. They have "been around" enough that you can't bamboozle them into thinking Stanford is the place for them, given their goals. That is just reality. Some years, we can get a few good grad transfers. Many other years, we can't. Just the nature of the beast.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - stopandpop - 04-25-2023
I'm no longer hoping for a portal miracle, although Stanford recruited Jordan Hamilton (from Northwester) very late on May 26th. a few years ago. The problem (then and now) was all the good transfers had been snaped up and (sadly) Hamilton was not the quality guard we had hoped her to be. She rarely played and never contributed much in her 1 grad season on The Farm.
I'm still holding out hope for a decent and preferably good available overseas freshman. Papadaki's recruitment (from Greece) came late, May 26th. last season. But like Hamilton, she has not (yet) helped the team in any way.
We do not need 2 or 3 replacements who primarily sit on the bench and play with the core team in practice. We need a guard who can score and a 6'4 or 6'5 back-up post who can come in for Brink and Iriafen. Bob K said there is a pipeline in place and that gives me some comfort. How about another Aussie or two?
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BobK - 04-25-2023
I don't believe Stanford recruited Hamliton. I believe she firsdt was accepted to Grad school.
I also don't believe we simply need warm bodies.
Right now I'm hoping for HS commits from the class of 2024.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Jskass - 04-25-2023
Hoping for 2024 too. Unfortunately we don't have any visibility into transfers other than they go elsewhere. I thought at one point we had interest in Shay Bollin (MA) who went to Duke, and she is now transferring to Illinois. Hard to know if we weren't in mix for what reason. Thinking can't ALWAYS be admissions.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - BobK - 04-25-2023
Sadly it’s almost always admissibility
Since some don’t know the process or never were able to read Chimera’s great summary of the process on the bootleg, it’s not admissions but the ability to be admitted. Few are rejected formally by admissions. The coaches all work closely with the admissions department and their liaison to the Athletic Department.
Bolin to Illinois. Kudos to Britany Anderson
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - Softball Fan - 04-25-2023
Some good news for undergrads moving forward is SAT or ACT scores no longer required by Stanford. I know for WVB the stumbling block usually was test scores. It should help open up things a little for recruits from low income families who don't have the resources to enroll in private SAT or ACT tutoring.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - stopandpop - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 02:30 PM)BobK Wrote: I don't believe Stanford recruited Hamliton. I believe she firsdt was accepted to Grad school.
I also don't believe we simply need warm bodies.
Right now I'm hoping for HS commits from the class of 2024.
If you are right, then when has Stanford WBB EVER recruited from the portal?
To set the record straight, I don't want warm bodies either. I want a quality guard who can score and a quality big from overseas.
Fine, if you're looking to 2024. There is still time to improve our team for the upcoming season. I can't imagine Tara not looking.
RE: WBB 2023-2024 Season - cardfan1996 - 04-25-2023
What criteria are they using to differentiate between students if not a standardized test?