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OT: USMNT - BostonCard - 11-16-2016

Lost 4-0 to Costa Rica.  Calls for Klinsmann's head abound:

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/11/16/13647958/jurgen-klinsmann-should-be-fired-but-not-because-the-usmnt-lost-4-0

(yes, this is a bit of washingtonismoney-bait).

BC

Re: OT: USMNT - 2006alum - 11-16-2016

(11-16-2016, 02:48 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Lost 4-0 to Costa Rica.  Calls for Klinsmann's head abound:

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/11/16/13647958/jurgen-klinsmann-should-be-fired-but-not-because-the-usmnt-lost-4-0

(yes, this is a bit of washingtonismoney-bait).

BC

Morris was injured and sat this one out, right?

Re: OT: USMNT - dabigv13 - 11-16-2016

I watched the Mexico game but not the Coast Rica game.

JK should probably go, but both Mexico and Costa Rica have more talent than the USMNT. Still shouldn't lose 4-0 though.

Still think JK has the right point of view with regards to the best US players getting experience overseas, but he's proven many times he's just not a good tacticIan.

Re: OT: USMNT - BostonCard - 11-16-2016

More voices calling for Jurgen to be replaced:

http://www.espnfc.com/team/united-states/660/blog/post/2997488/us-needs-to-replace-jurgen-klinsmann-after-costa-rica-humiliation-but-will-it

BC

Re: OT: USMNT - North Woods - 11-16-2016

(11-16-2016, 03:36 PM)dabigv link Wrote:...both Mexico and Costa Rica have more talent than the USMNT.

Most of Costa Rica's team plays in a domestic league or MLS, plus they were missing a right back and three (!) center backs.

Despite that we rarely threatened to score. We traditionally struggle when we play there but the team looked lost and unmotivated. Brooks and Chandler both got player ratings of 2 by ESPN and it actually didn't seem overly harsh from what I watched.

Our relatively brightest spots (Wood and Pulisic) barely got the ball. If we play like this we won't qualify.

Luckily this is only two matches -- and two of the toughest based on opponent/location. We can still turn things around if we play at our normal level going forward.



Re: OT: USMNT - dabigv13 - 11-16-2016

And they also have numerous players in top European leagues, Spain, Portugal, Premier, I think Italy. Again I didn't watch the Costa Rica game itself, I just am familiar a bit with their roster from Copa, so I didn't see who was out, sorry.

I think the lack of true world class players is perhaps the USMNT's biggest hurdle in getting beyond where they are and have been stuck at.

Re: OT: USMNT - North Woods - 11-16-2016

Yeah I agree about lack of world class players but yesterday we underperformed relative to our talent level.

Against Mexico we had a good second half (apart from the bad corner kick defending) and showed some spirit. Yesterday we didn't show much. Instead of fighting back after a slow start we looked like we didn't want to be there.

Re: OT: USMNT - washingtonismoney - 11-16-2016

The notion of who's a world class player and who's not is an exceedingly vague one. There's no accepted demarcation, and there's no WARP for soccer players. It's ultimately somewhat subjective. So, subjectively: it's crazy that the team should struggle so. The team has far more talent than it did in, say, '09 or '10. (I had to watch Robbie Findlay so I know whereof I speak.)

This of course leaves the coach. Turns out leaders with high-flown rhetoric and inconsistent ability to execute on such aren't great bets. Who knew!*

*(OK I should give Klinsmann more credit than this. He has a mixed record. Certainly his bets on some underrated players like Jordan Morris have turned good. But several of his experiments didn't work, and the experiments untried are nearly as critical. Ultimately if you look at his record it is worse than his predecessors. He's had five years' runaway. The qualifying campaign is at risk. Fire him and move on.)

Re: OT: USMNT - DC 86 - 11-16-2016

(11-16-2016, 07:40 PM)dabigv link Wrote:And they also have numerous players in top European leagues, Spain, Portugal, Premier, I think Italy. Again I didn't watch the Costa Rica game itself, I just am familiar a bit with their roster from Copa, so I didn't see who was out, sorry.

I think the lack of true world class players is perhaps the USMNT's biggest hurdle in getting beyond where they are and have been stuck at.

Costa Rica Starting Lineup (and the league they play in for their clubs): Navas (Spain La Liga), Umana (Costa Rica), Acosta (Costa Rica), Watson (MLS), Matarrita (MLS), Borges (Spain La Liga), Azofeifa (Costa Rica), Salvatierra (Costa Rica), Ruiz (Portugal), Bolanos (MLS), Veneers (MLS).

USA Starting Lineup: Guzan (England Premier), Chandler (Germany Bundesliga), Brooks (Germany Bundesliga), Gonzalez (Mexico Liga MX), Besler (MLS), Johnson (Germany Bundesliga), Bradley (MLS), Jones (MLS), Pulisic (Germany Bundesliga), Wood (Germany Bundesliga), Altidore (MLS).

So Costa Rica started 2 players from the "big five" European leagues, 4 from MLS, 4 from the low-level Costa Rica domestic league.

The USA started 6 players from the "big five" European leagues and 4 from MLS.

Costa Rica can't objectively be said to have more talent but they played as a team, with fire and a clear tactical plan. The US looked disjointed and seemed to give up after giving up the second goal, which is uncharacteristic of them. For 30 years the US was a team with a clear identity: extremely fit, unselfish, disciplined and organized, physically and mentally tough. A team that nobody wanted to play because win or lose the US would play a hard game until the final whistle. Nothing like the team that faced Costa Rica.

Mexico is a strong team with true world class players, but then again the US hadn't lost a home world cup qualifier to anyone in fifteen years, so it's a poor result.

Obviously the US needs world class players to compete at the absolute highest level but the current level (4th in the gold cup and last place in the final round of qualifying) is way below the level of the last two world cup cycles when the US was the strongest team in the region; that is the immediate and troubling issue.

I am a longtime USMNT fan and have attended qualifiers both in the US and abroad, and this is the nadir, not only because of the results but because Klinsmann seems to have lost the team amid inconsistent tactics, lineups, formations and pointing fingers at his players while undermining their chances of success. With Germany he ceded all game management to Joachim Low, with spectacular results, but with the US he has insisted on running the whole show resulting in this situation. The next qualifier is in March which gives a new manager plenty of time to take charge and make necessary changes, and conveniently Bruce Arena's contract with LA expires in the next few weeks.

Yes, Morris was injured and taken off the roster, he possibly would have come in as a late substitute but would not have started over Altidore or Wood.

Re: OT: USMNT - BostonCard - 11-21-2016

Klinsman fired.  No tears shed.

BC

Re: OT: USMNT - dabigv13 - 11-21-2016

I remember when he was hired, the sense was that it was something of a coup to get him. Will be interesting to see what his next move is.

Re: OT: USMNT - yvonne - 11-21-2016

Beat me to the punch! Here's the BBC sport story. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38058433

I really expected Klinsmann to turn the US into a football powerhouse. The US has come a long way since it was awarded the World Cup in 1994, and as one of the posters here (washingtonismoney), the US and England are going in opposite directions. The US has a strong AYSO system, as well as an OK league. It's not a comparison to the better European leagues, but it's something to build on.

It will be interesting to see who the US's football association picks, and how he does.

Re: OT: USMNT - DC 86 - 11-21-2016

(11-21-2016, 05:15 PM)Yvonne link Wrote:It will be interesting to see who the US's football association picks, and how he does.

All reports are that it will be Bruce Arena, who guided the US to the World Cup quarterfinals in 2002 and has won 5 MLS championships. A safe and solid choice who is likely to right the qualifying ship. What will be interesting will be what happens after this cycle, the next hire will indicate the long term direction of the program.

Re: OT: USMNT - dabigv13 - 11-21-2016

Arena is a good coach and would be a steady hand, but I'm not sure it's really the right move. The second run is rarely as good as the first, and the first was just ok. Also his statements about recent foreign born USMNT players has to give you pause considering how important a lot of those players have been for the USMNT of late.

Re: OT: USMNT - DC 86 - 11-21-2016

Valid concerns and I don't think Arena is the long term answer, but unfair to call his first cycle merely "ok". He is the only manager to ever win a knockout round game in the World Cup, his 2002 team reached the quarterfinals against Germany and lost 1-0 in a game where the referee missed a German defender stopping a US shot on their goal line with his hand. Arena also has by far the best record of all modern U.S. managers in games against world top-20 teams.

Re: OT: USMNT - washingtonismoney - 11-21-2016

First-term Arena is the best USMNT manager ever. Second-term Arena is OK...but an improvement over the dreck Klinsmann served fans. Either way an improvement. Only if you value vague "style" points or a notion that the US manager has to develop youth players/style does Arena appear less than ideal. But even then this is odd: Arena's Galaxy teams have often been pretty stylish. (Also a national team manager doesn't develop youth players.) I don't really see a good objection to appointing Arena, unless you have some good alternative.

(But I suspect those alternatives are deficient. The U.S. needs a manager to hit the ground running because of Klinsmann's  screwups. That limits things to an MLS and/or American manager, realistically, because of familiarity with the pool. Bradley's with Swansea. That leaves Arena.)

Re: OT: USMNT - oman - 11-21-2016

Let Arena see us through qualifying and then hire Oscar Pareja, who can develop young talent and can help us win on this side of the pond.

Re: OT: USMNT - dabigv13 - 11-21-2016

Surely if Arena can secure qualification he sticks around for the WC?

Re: OT: USMNT - vataha - 11-22-2016

Because of where we are, two games into the Hex, Arena is about the only choice. His experience, credibility will command instant respect from the locker room. The short term goal is to regroup, qualify for the world cup and perform up to capabilities during the world cup. All the while looking for the proper coach for the USMNT for the following 8+ years. I have felt that the best preparation for a U.S. player for international futbol is to play in international leagues. The old NASL and the current MLS are nowhere near the caliber of the better international leagues. MLS is difficult to watch. Watch an EPL match then watch an MLS match. It is like night and day. EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga etc. all are light years ahead of MLS. I wholeheartedly agree with Klinnsman in his assessment that our USMNT candidates should be playing club futbol in the international leagues where the competition and skill is superior.

U.S. soccer is hamstrung by the fact that many of those in charge have a monetary stake in the MLS and they will do what is best for their monetary interests, not what is right in the long-term for the USMNT. These folks want the best American players playing in the MLS because they believe Americans want to watch Americans play. What scares me about Arena is that he is a proponent of the MLS ideal and I'm afraid that he is going to stock the roster with older MLS players when in fact America has some truly talented young players sprinkled throughout international futbol who are the future of the USMNT. They need to keep playing internationally to hone their skills.