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What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - Printable Version

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What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - yvonne - 02-14-2017

Mariah Burton Nelson, former Stanford hoopster, Women's Sports & Fitness magazine founder, and my first editor, described this as "a brave and radical proposal to replace, rather than reform, the NCAA -- taking them to task for exploiting players, discriminating against women, caring more about money than people, and more."

Unwinding Madness: What Went Wrong with College Sports—and How to Fix It

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - M T - 02-14-2017

From the Amazon blurb on the book: "The NCAA has placed commercial success above its responsibilities to protect the academic primacy, health and well-being of college athletes and fallen into an educational, ethical, and economic crisis."

Interesting to see this topic adjacent to "Good grief! Lot 2 parking is now $360."

My point is that the NCAA is the sum of its members, the colleges & universities.  If the colleges & universities are unable to avoid the pull to maximize income from sports, I don't know how some other organization can replace the NCAA with something the schools can't or won't do.

I know that there are many, many schools that don't have the big money-making programs, where sports are more what I like to think of them as -- an extra-curricular activity that broadens the experience and life of the students.



Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - cardcrimson - 02-14-2017

Repeal and Replace!

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - ThePassionOfTheChryst - 02-14-2017

My main gripe about the NCAA is its draconian rules regarding player compensation. I hesitate to refer to scholarship athletes as being "exploited" however, since that's the same word often used to refer to child sweatshop workers and the like.

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - CTcard - 02-14-2017

(02-14-2017, 02:13 PM)MT link Wrote:My point is that the NCAA is the sum of its members, the colleges & universities.  If the colleges & universities are unable to avoid the pull to maximize income from sports, I don't know how some other organization can replace the NCAA with something the schools can't or won't do.

Your point is a very good one.

I haven't yet seen a reason that any new organization that replaces the NCAA won't just become the NCAA by another name (that would small as ... bad?).
The ire directed at the NCAA seems more justly aimed at the institutions that make up the NCAA - and the alums/fans/politicians who push towards winning over all.

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - socalstanfan1 - 02-15-2017

I haven't beaten this drum in a while, but I think a way to address much of the corruption/difficulties of the NCAA would be for the NFL and NBA to develop legitimate minor/developmental leagues open to players coming straight out of HS, a la Hockey and Baseball.  My totally un-researched, impressionistic perception:

The most obvious NCAA problems revolve around football and basketball, sports in which athletes with aspirations for the big bucks of the professional leagues are more or less compelled to attend to hone their skills (Yes, a few basketball players have headed for China or Europe, rather than the colleges, but that requires a personal uprooting that many 17 year olds and their families would be unwilling to make, particularly when universities will essentially allow them to do their apprenticeship free of cost, locally).  Giving young athletes who have no real interest in university education a realistic alternative to universities would alleviate a lot of issues.

The NBA D-league seems to be making some strides toward something like a real minor league, but I don't know if they have taken any players directly out of HS.  Changing the rules of the NBA to allow drafting of a player, and then requiring an athlete straight from HS spend a year in the D-league would essentially give HS players a real choice on where to go.

This might lead to less interest in college sports, at least at the level of the casual fan.  A lot of interest in March Madness or the football bowl games is the chance to see young players who your favorite pro team might draft, and speculate about how they will do at the professional level.  And for this reason, along with the cost that pro teams might have to pay to support a minor league system, reform is unlikely any time soon. 

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - CTcard - 02-15-2017

(02-15-2017, 12:09 AM)socalstanfan1 link Wrote:I haven't beaten this drum in a while, but I think a way to address much of the corruption/difficulties of the NCAA would be for the NFL and NBA to develop legitimate minor/developmental leagues open to players coming straight out of HS, a la Hockey and Baseball. 
...
This might lead to less interest in college sports, at least at the level of the casual fan.  A lot of interest in March Madness or the football bowl games is the chance to see young players who your favorite pro team might draft, and speculate about how they will do at the professional level.  And for this reason, along with the cost that pro teams might have to pay to support a minor league system, reform is unlikely any time soon.

I agree that is a likely consequence, at least in the long term.

Presumably anybody who might create such a league wouldn't care that much about what happens to college sports (i.e. the colleges themselves wouldn't do it). Of course right now the NFL/NBA get both a free development league and a ton of free publicity for their sport and future stars. A pretty good deal for them.
It's also an interesting question how far colleges would go to compete against such minor leagues.

It's a trade off I would take: less interest overall for a less corrupted situation. But other trade offs would include fewer sports opportunities overall as there would also be less money for all the other sports.

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - M T - 02-15-2017

I think the use of "corruption" with regards to the NCAA is entirely inappropriate.  I can't recall any whiffs of corruption of the NCAA itself.  Indeed, it seems to do a pretty good job of finding and removing instances of what might be termed corruption at the schools.

From the point of view of someone who doesn't care at all about pro sports, my enjoyment of college sports has NOTHING to do with who might become a major pro player.  For those that do care about proto-pro development, why aren't they watching more college baseball or golf or ice hockey or whatever?

There is an immense amount of money, or similar value, spent on promoting pro sports in the US.  We are bombarded by it on the TV and newspapers.  It seems many of us drink that Kool-Aid.  I think we get hoodwinked by the pro sports because they try to appeal to the homer tendency of their constituency, only to pull up roots and plant themselves in some other market when they want a new community to give them something big.

The support & financing of big college sports seems more stable.  The athletic departments at schools seem to be financed by alums that are tied to the school by their college experience.  That generally ties a single donor to a single school for life.  While how much any one donor gives varies dramatically, you're not going to see many donors for Stanford switch to donating to a school in Berkeley.

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - socalstanfan1 - 02-15-2017

(02-15-2017, 08:38 AM)MT link Wrote:I think the use of "corruption" with regards to the NCAA is entirely inappropriate.  I can't recall any whiffs of corruption of the NCAA itself.  Indeed, it seems to do a pretty good job of finding and removing instances of what might be termed corruption at the schools.

My use of the term NCAA refers to all the organizations in college sports under the umbrella organization, not simply the administrators who root out the corruption. (Surely the NFL is more than simply the Commissioner's office, but also includes all the teams in the league) So by corruption I meant those things that are in fact investigated and punished by the administrators: "gifts" from alumni to star players, institutionalized cheating within athletic departments, etc.  My impression is that these forms of corruption far more frequently permeate the football and basketball programs (though perhaps they occur in other sports that simply don't receive the same publicity).  At an even deeper level, I think that the association of such brobdingnagian amounts of money with university athletics corrupts the fundamental purpose of the university: to provide a space for the development, of both the intellect and more generally the character, of the students. Sports has a role to play in this: emphasizing teamwork, discipline, honor, integrity in competition, etc. for the athletes, and school loyalty and pride for the fans.  But when the primary purpose of the sport becomes profit, then I would argue there is a general corruption of the university and its educational mission as a whole. I do think, btw, that some coaches (and Shaw is one of them), really does seem to focus on character and integrity (I recall Shaw walking to the USC locker room after a difficult loss by Stanford to shake hands and congratulate the victors; symbolic I know, but nonetheless such symbols can be powerful examples of honorable behavior).  But such coaches must struggle against enormous pressure when such brobdingnagian amounts of money are at stake. And Stanford really is an outlier in the world of college sports.

So if we think of all the university athletic departments as being part of the NCAA, I don't think the term corruption is inappropriate.



Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - CTcard - 02-15-2017

(02-15-2017, 09:36 AM)socalstanfan1 link Wrote:So if we think of all the university athletic departments as being part of the NCAA, I don't think the term corruption is inappropriate.

I don't either.

But if we think of all the university athletic departments as being part of the NCAA then the concept of completely abolishing it and starting with something new would be ... odd.

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - socalstanfan1 - 02-15-2017

(02-15-2017, 03:36 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=socalstanfan1 link=topic=16589.msg188669#msg188669 date=1487176581]
So if we think of all the university athletic departments as being part of the NCAA, I don't think the term corruption is inappropriate.

I don't either.

But if we think of all the university athletic departments as being part of the NCAA then the concept of completely abolishing it and starting with something new would be ... odd.
[/quote]

Agreed. And I haven't read the book referenced to start this thread, but this discussion does raise the question: if you abolished the NCAA (defined as just the organizing/administrating structure), what would replace it? Or would you just end up with only conference-level administrations, or even just universities doing their own thing entirely?

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - JeffInCorvallis - 02-15-2017

(02-15-2017, 12:09 AM)socalstanfan1 link Wrote:I haven't beaten this drum in a while, but I think a way to address much of the corruption/difficulties of the NCAA would be for the NFL and NBA to develop legitimate minor/developmental leagues open to players coming straight out of HS, a la Hockey and Baseball. 

In principle I completely agree with this. The NFL and NBA have gotten free development leagues for a long time.

Unfortunately, there is little to no emotional investment in minor league teams, whilst most D-1 universities have cultivated rabid fan bases. At some big name schools the base includes orders of people who are not alumni and really don't have any connection to the school outside of sports.

Imagine, if you will, the media buildup for a game between the Palo Alto Trees and the Tuscaloosa Tide. Not much of an attention-grabber.

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - socalstanfan1 - 02-16-2017

(02-15-2017, 11:10 PM)JeffInCorvallis link Wrote:[quote author=socalstanfan1 link=topic=16589.msg188663#msg188663 date=1487142571]
I haven't beaten this drum in a while, but I think a way to address much of the corruption/difficulties of the NCAA would be for the NFL and NBA to develop legitimate minor/developmental leagues open to players coming straight out of HS, a la Hockey and Baseball. 

In principle I completely agree with this. The NFL and NBA have gotten free development leagues for a long time.

Unfortunately, there is little to no emotional investment in minor league teams, whilst most D-1 universities have cultivated rabid fan bases. At some big name schools the base includes orders of people who are not alumni and really don't have any connection to the school outside of sports.

Imagine, if you will, the media buildup for a game between the Palo Alto Trees and the Tuscaloosa Tide. Not much of an attention-grabber.
[/quote]

I don't think the issue is whether the minor league teams would get a fan base.  They probably wouldn't.  The question is whether the college teams would continue to attract rabid fan bases, even when much (but not all) of the premium talent was re-directed to the minors. I assume that, just as baseball and hockey have both college and minor league teams, so too would football and basketball.  But you are right, a lot of more casual fans might lose interest if premium talent is elsewhere. 

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - Duck Tears - 02-16-2017

The NCAA will be the first to declare their virtuous existence and how it benefits the student-athlete.

Yet, time and again, they fail the student-athlete by not harshly punishing those who exploit them.
So much crime, but so little time: What is stopping the NCAA from dropping the hammer on UNC basketball and Baylor football?

We know the Tar Heels funneled basketball players through fake classes for years. We know Art Briles hid a misogynist culture so vile, Greg Hardy would condemn it. But using history as a guide, the NCAA thinks paying players — SMU football: death penalty in 1987 — is more serious than granting asylum to a child molester.

In a year Penn State returned to prominence after a measly two-year bowl ban, it begs the questions: Will UNC hoops and Baylor football ever get the truly harsh penalties they deserve? And if not, why?

Re: What Went Wrong with College Sports — and How to Fix It - CornFed - 02-16-2017

(02-16-2017, 01:09 PM)Duck Tears link Wrote:The NCAA will be the first to declare their virtuous existence and how it benefits the student-athlete.

Yet, time and again, they fail the student-athlete by not harshly punishing those who exploit them.
So much crime, but so little time: What is stopping the NCAA from dropping the hammer on UNC basketball and Baylor football?

We know the Tar Heels funneled basketball players through fake classes for years. We know Art Briles hid a misogynist culture so vile, Greg Hardy would condemn it. But using history as a guide, the NCAA thinks paying players — SMU football: death penalty in 1987 — is more serious than granting asylum to a child molester.

In a year Penn State returned to prominence after a measly two-year bowl ban, it begs the questions: Will UNC hoops and Baylor football ever get the truly harsh penalties they deserve? And if not, why?

Would that I might be able to give you many more up votes.Â