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The Defensive Line - OutsiderFan - 09-09-2017

This is looking like a worse situation than even those of us concerned about the DL imagined it would be.  Nobody other than Phillips, Cotton, and Jackson has played a first half snap from what I can gather (intimating Swann and Williams aren't up to the task), and those three starters are getting destroyed for the most part. 

When facing a QB as accurate as Darnold, this less than dominant DL is too much to overcome without a totally unstoppable offense.  Stanford's offense is improved over 2016, but it's not unstoppable.

USC offensive line - Redrum - 09-09-2017

seems always able to get to linebackers.  Our DLine just ain't up to the job.  Come to think of it, our OL not the equal of USC.  Hate to entertain the thought, but USC is back.

Re: The Defensive Line - Mick - 09-09-2017

terrible pass to JJAW, btw

Re: The Defensive Line - amartinsu13 - 09-09-2017

We got dominated on both lines.

Both lines lack talent, lack toughness. 

We're UCLA: soft.

Re: The Defensive Line - amartinsu13 - 09-09-2017

My #1 worry coming into the game was DL, but I didn't think they'd be this bad. Not sure what can be done to fix it at this point. Just don't have the right horses. Need to recruit better.

Numbers don't lie:
http://imgur.com/a/XP7lD

Re: The Defensive Line - amartinsu13 - 09-09-2017

Lose the #3 guy in the draft, and replace him with a converted TE.

Not a good pipeline.

Re: The Defensive Line - OutsiderFan - 09-09-2017

My prediction for this season was 8-4.  The reason was pretty much what we saw tonight: 

1. The DL is just not good enough to beat the best teams
2. Chryst is OK, but he's not elite

Looking at the ugly SC game stats,  SC was about 2x better than Stanford offensively, and that's pretty much because SC has a decent DL and Stanford doesn't. 

If Stanford had a decent DL, it's likely still a Stanford loss because Darnold > Chryst, but it also would have been a close game where it was possible for Stanford to have a shot at a win.



Re: The Defensive Line - VFRing98 - 09-09-2017

What defensive line?

Re: The Defensive Line - cardcrimson - 09-09-2017

(09-09-2017, 09:05 PM)amartinsu13 link Wrote:Lose the #3 guy in the draft, and replace him with a converted TE.

Not a good pipeline.

If memory serves, wasn't John Lynch a converted QB? How'd that turn out?

Re: The Defensive Line - amartinsu13 - 09-09-2017

(09-09-2017, 09:42 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:[quote author=amartinsu13 link=topic=17353.msg199968#msg199968 date=1505016333]
Lose the #3 guy in the draft, and replace him with a converted TE.

Not a good pipeline.

If memory serves, wasn't John Lynch a converted QB? How'd that turn out?
[/quote]

That'd be a great example if our converted DL were turning into half of fame players.

Re: The Defensive Line - BostonCard - 09-09-2017

(09-09-2017, 10:25 PM)amartinsu13 link Wrote:[quote author=cardcrimson link=topic=17353.msg199992#msg199992 date=1505018558]
[quote author=amartinsu13 link=topic=17353.msg199968#msg199968 date=1505016333]
Lose the #3 guy in the draft, and replace him with a converted TE.

Not a good pipeline.

If memory serves, wasn't John Lynch a converted QB? How'd that turn out?
[/quote]

That'd be a great example if our converted DL were turning into half of fame players.
[/quote]

Hell, it woud be great if our converted DL turned into half players.

BC

Re: The Defensive Line - Phogge - 09-09-2017

I can't remember Jackson making a play ever. Cotton is way overmatched. I assume Alfieri is hurt but if not stick him back at OLB. Barton was particularly awful tonight and The Squid has regressed since his freshman year. If this continues Falk will throw for 600 yards if The Pirate leaves him in.

Re: The Defensive Line - BobK - 09-10-2017

The fact we played 2-4-5 just 2 DLs most of the night was interesting.  Of course put the best players on the field, still ??  Swann did play, Phillips was very good.   

Re: The Defensive Line - qwerty49 - 09-10-2017

(09-09-2017, 11:21 PM)Phogge link Wrote:I can't remember Jackson making a play ever. Cotton is way overmatched. I assume Alfieri is hurt but if not stick him back at OLB. Barton was particularly awful tonight and The Squid has regressed since his freshman year. If this continues Falk will throw for 600 yards if The Pirate leaves him in.

Philips has heart but he's all alone out there.  Jackson, Cotton and Okereke just seemed way too small to have any impact.  Palma was the only ILB who was stout enough to stop the run, but his lack of speed in pass coverage dooms him every time. 

Way too much hype about our secondary -- they're good, but no secondary is good if the front 7 can't put any pressure on the passer.  However I only remember Darnold targeting Meeks' man once, so there must have been some respect there. 



Re: The Defensive Line - winflop - 09-11-2017

(09-09-2017, 09:11 PM)VFRing98 link Wrote:What defensive line?

And the guys behind them at ILB are for the most part undersized. Too many times they were moved out of position too easily. Palma was the only exception, and his pass coverage is mediocre at best. Alfieri might "still be learning the position" but you might as well throw him out there because the guys taking snaps in his place are - just like last year - not good enough

Re: The Defensive Line - Goose - 09-11-2017

(09-11-2017, 04:08 AM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=VFRing98 link=topic=17353.msg199976#msg199976 date=1505016689]
What defensive line?

And the guys behind them at ILB are for the most part undersized. Too many times they were moved out of position too easily. Palma was the only exception, and his pass coverage is mediocre at best. Alfieri might "still be learning the position" but you might as well throw him out there because the guys taking snaps in his place are - just like last year - not good enough
[/quote]
I tend to agree. If we are going to play with only 2 DL, because we don't have enough good "big" ones, the ILBs have to play well. We haven't seen that against good teams. We may be in a situation where we just don't have the personnel no matter how we deploy them. It isn't "just one bad game". Granted, the ILBs may have had a bad game, but when have we see them have a "good" one? None that I recall.

Re: The Defensive Line - Hank 91 - 09-11-2017

I noticed the two down linemen package also, and at first I thought we had just fallen into USC's trap -- they caught us in that look on a passing down, then kept going no huddle to prevent subbing. (They clearly did that two years ago.) But looking at the boxscore, we actually started the game with two linemen.

I was sitting in the fifth row behind the Stanford bench, and I noticed two specific things about the linemen. One, as several people have said here, they look incredibly small compared to what we're used to seeing. Eric Cotton looks like -- guess what -- a tight end. It just seems like aside from Harrison, they aren't physically ready. For that reason I'd like to see more of Mike Williams, just for the bulk he provides.

Here's the second thing. As noted, Phillips played an admirable game. At some point in the fourth quarter, however, he asked out, ran to the sidelines and took a knee, and looked like he was ready to vomit. When you combine the lack of depth with the amount of time USC had the ball, it was a recipe for disaster. The game really couldn't have turned out any other way.

Re: The Defensive Line - Goose - 09-11-2017

(09-11-2017, 09:03 AM)Hank 91 link Wrote:Here's the second thing. As noted, Phillips played an admirable game. At some point in the fourth quarter, however, he asked out, ran to the sidelines and took a knee, and looked like he was ready to vomit.
This will get to be more of an issue as he gets beat up. He may not get hurt, but he will eventually be playing with lots of nicks. The staff has to exercise caution with their one asset.
Quote:When you combine the lack of depth with the amount of time U$C had the ball, it was a recipe for disaster. The game really couldn't have turned out any other way.
Fully agree. If the defense doesn't get stops early in the game, they just wear down even further and making stops becomes impossible.

Re: The Defensive Line - OutsiderFan - 09-11-2017

Cotton being a converted TE isn't an issue.  Many DL are converted from TE.  Miami always converted TE to DL in their hey day.  Warren Sapp is probably the most vivid example.

My concern has been that Stanford DL don't keep or add enough weight.  Dylan Jackson is listed at 266, but he's 6-6.  Michael Williams was once reported to be 305.  He's now listed at 280.  Swann isn't big either.  You simply can't play a 3-man front with three guys who are so small, unless they have extraordinary quickness like Solomon Thomas has. 

Listening to my favorite color analyst (Chris Spielman) on the Niners game (ugh), he said something like "the bigger the butt in front of me, the better I felt as a LB."  Stanford needs bigger butts for DL.


Re: The Defensive Line - Goose - 09-11-2017

(09-11-2017, 09:52 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:You simply can't play a 3-man front with three guys who are so small, unless they have extraordinary quickness like Solomon Thomas has. 
It is even harder when you play a 2-man front.