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Shaw's press conference - BostonCard - 09-17-2017

https://twitter.com/stanfordfball/status/909304410567671808?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=4e381adabf65462b8ce42198a9095941&uid=46791379&nid=244+285282312



Re: Shaw's press conference - hayaka - 09-17-2017

(09-17-2017, 04:38 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:https://twitter.com/stanfordfball/status/909304410567671808?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=4e381adabf65462b8ce42198a9095941&uid=46791379&nid=244+285282312

I can't believe no one asked Shaw about the decision to kick the FG when 4th and 1 at the SDSU 20.  I'm still shaking my head about that.   

Re: Shaw's press conference - winflop - 09-17-2017

(09-17-2017, 06:09 PM)hayaka link Wrote:[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=17425.msg201251#msg201251 date=1505691537]
https://twitter.com/stanfordfball/status/909304410567671808?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=4e381adabf65462b8ce42198a9095941&uid=46791379&nid=244+285282312

I can't believe no one asked Shaw about the decision to kick the FG when 4th and 1 at the SDSU 20.  I'm still shaking my head about that. 
[/quote]

I expect Shaw & Tom Fitzgerald to explore that one in great detail on Tuesday, with claws & fangs out in full.

Re: Shaw's press conference - OutsiderFan - 09-18-2017

I know many here don't put much stock in what coaches say in press conferences, but, they can be windows into how coaches think if they let things slip out or otherwise say things that don't seem like the best answers.

Case in point, when a reporter asked Shaw if the offense bore some responsibility for SDSU holding the ball for 41 minutes, he said no, and basically blamed the defense for not getting enough stops.  My jaw dropped when I heard that.  First of all, sure you can win some games your offense only scores 17 points, but it is absurd for a Pac-12 team to not win a game it holds a MWC team to 20 points.  Second, by effectively blaming the defense, Shaw wasn't willing to take the blame for his team's failures, as the guy de-facto in charge of the offense.

The correct answer was "yes, we needed to play better on offense to help our defense, and I take responsibility for that."  Why?  Because it's obvious for anyone - even those who didn't watch the game - to see from the stats alone that the offensive failures likely put more pressure on the defense, and that the defense was worn down at the end of the game on SDSU's game-winning drive.  But even if Shaw is right that the defense should have gotten more stops, he can't say it.  Doing so can sow seeds of doubt that could fester. It also makes the HC look like rather than admitting faults - for the list of transparently obvious offensive failures - he's blaming others for his own failures with the offense.  That's just never a good thing for a leader to do. 

Re: Shaw's press conference - washingtonismoney - 09-18-2017

In general, when things are going bad, in-season Shaw is pretty defensive -- typically refuses even to acknowledge the premise to the question. Out-of-season Shaw is more expansive. So I'm not surprised he went to great lengths to evade the question. Frankly, I don't even really care what he says; I care what he actually thinks and does. And we'll have to see on that point. (For what it's worth, the guy we saw on Saturday -- see "Shaw's mood" -- was almost uniquely, in my memory, pissed-off. I don't know what that means.)

Re: Shaw's press conference - Renaissance Man - 09-18-2017

Explosive plays, like those that Bryce keeps producing, have an adverse impact on time of possession. That doesn't mean that I want them to stop.

Re: Shaw's press conference - ColoradoTree - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 08:17 AM)Renaissance Man link Wrote:Explosive plays, like those that Bryce keeps producing, have an adverse impact on time of possession. That doesn't mean that I want them to stop.

So do three and outs.  So do turnovers.  It's not a perfect metric, but in the aggregate, it's useful for approximating whether you're sustaining drives or whether the other team is dominating the ball.  Obviously, we didn't sufficiently sustain drives, since we only gained 254 yards of offense, and 100+ of those came on two Bryce Love home runs. 

When you score 50 points, TOP is irrelevant, as it was when Oregon was its peak a few years ago.  When you can't muster more than 17 against a Group of 5 defense, you haven't earned the privilege of disregarding it. 

Re: Shaw's press conference - stupac2 - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 06:14 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:In general, when things are going bad, in-season Shaw is pretty defensive -- typically refuses even to acknowledge the premise to the question. Out-of-season Shaw is more expansive. So I'm not surprised he went to great lengths to evade the question. Frankly, I don't even really care what he says; I care what he actually thinks and does. And we'll have to see on that point. (For what it's worth, the guy we saw on Saturday -- see "Shaw's mood" -- was almost uniquely, in my memory, pissed-off. I don't know what that means.)

I keep thinking of this every time you point out the thing about Shaw's mood, so I'll finally write it down. I doubt anyone here has seen it, but I remember watching Bill Belichick: A Football Life, which was an NFL Films documentary that followed him around for the 2009 season. That season was a weird one, a lot of change in the front office, coaching staff, and players, plus Brady coming back from the knee injury. The team went 10-6 and ended up losing in the Wild Card round, the only time they've done that. All things considered, not a bad year, right? Even if not up to their standards.

The thing that struck me though, was that several times through the documentary Belichick said something like "I just can't win with these guys," or "I just can't coach these guys." He seemed to think that the team just didn't have it, maybe football observers would call them "soft" or something, but there's a quality a team has where they can find a way to make the play, find a way to win. And I don't think it really comes from the coaches, it has to come from the players. (Yes, I know in the long term over all teams you win half of your close games, but confidence and mental toughness matter, even if you can't measure them.)

And I'm wondering if that's something we had and just lost, and Shaw knows it and is reacting (in his way) like Belichick did. I guess we'll see if we have really lost that, and what this team is made of next week.

Re: Shaw's press conference - martyup - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 08:33 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=17425.msg201308#msg201308 date=1505740462]
In general, when things are going bad, in-season Shaw is pretty defensive -- typically refuses even to acknowledge the premise to the question. Out-of-season Shaw is more expansive. So I'm not surprised he went to great lengths to evade the question. Frankly, I don't even really care what he says; I care what he actually thinks and does. And we'll have to see on that point. (For what it's worth, the guy we saw on Saturday -- see "Shaw's mood" -- was almost uniquely, in my memory, pissed-off. I don't know what that means.)

I keep thinking of this every time you point out the thing about Shaw's mood, so I'll finally write it down . . . The thing that struck me though, was that several times through the documentary Belichick said something like "I just can't win with these guys," or "I just can't coach these guys." He seemed to think that the team just didn't have it . . .

And I'm wondering if that's something we had and just lost, and Shaw knows it and is reacting (in his way) like Belichick did. I guess we'll see if we have really lost that, and what this team is made of next week.
[/quote]

Yes.  That is what I was saying in another thread.  We have been mostly an over achieving team in Shaw's era.  But, every team has its own group personality and culture.  Some teams come together as a group and outplay their talent.  Some teams do the opposite.  We've watched many SC teams in recent years under achieve.

Perhaps Shaw's frustration lies in this team not playing up to its' potential given our talent level.  In the past, we've had team leaders that seemed to rally the boys to excellence.  I think Skov was an example of such leader.  Who is the rally leader of this team?

As I write this, I recall during the Rice game seeing Costello on the sideline firing up his teammates.  Perhaps the best reason to play him is not his ability as a QB, but as a leader.

Re: Shaw's press conference - OutsiderFan - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 09:52 AM)martyup link Wrote:Perhaps the best reason to play [Costello] is not his ability as a QB, but as a leader.

This makes a lot of sense, though I also think Costello has more ability than Chryst or Burns.

Re: Shaw's press conference - Goose - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 10:00 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:[quote author=martyup link=topic=17425.msg201335#msg201335 date=1505753576]
Perhaps the best reason to play [Costello] is not his ability as a QB, but as a leader.

This makes a lot of sense, though I also think Costello has more ability than Chryst or Burns.
[/quote]
From what little I know about Costello, it might be worth a try. However, the leader I think we may be missing is a leader on the offensive line. The QB can only lead that group to a degree. We need a TWU steward to bring forth the idea that "we are going to push the defense back three yards and then we will get serious" approach. No questions. No excuses. Just results.

Re: Shaw's press conference - Goose - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 05:58 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:The correct answer was "yes, we needed to play better on offense to help our defense, and I take responsibility for that."
I only partially concur. The coach has to say, and believe, "When we bring our defense on with a four point lead and six minutes left in the game, I expect them to hold that lead. I don't care if they are tired, or that the other team is good. That is what we expect and require." Then he can say "That said, our offense should never have allowed the lead to be that small. We made way too many errors, and that has to stop. I am the head coach. Both things are on me." Why?  Because it's the truth. You both win and lose as a team. If not, finger pointing starts. You can't ever give the defense a pass on not holding a lead, no matter what the excuse may be.


Re: Shaw's press conference - DC 86 - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 11:29 AM)Goose link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=17425.msg201305#msg201305 date=1505739516]
The correct answer was "yes, we needed to play better on offense to help our defense, and I take responsibility for that."
I only partially concur. The coach has to say, and believe, "When we bring our defense on with a four point lead and six minutes left in the game, I expect them to hold that lead. I don't care if they are tired, or that the other team is good. That is what we expect and require." Then he can say "That said, our offense should never have allowed the lead to be that small. We made way too many errors, and that has to stop. I am the head coach. Both things are on me." Why?  Because it's the truth. You both win and lose as a team. If not, finger pointing starts. You can't ever give the defense a pass on not holding a lead, no matter what the excuse may be.
[/quote]
Excellent point. The easiest way to damage a team is to blame one side of the ball for a loss or for the team's overall problems, even when it's done as part of the coach taking blame himself.

Re: Shaw's press conference - JohnR34231 - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 11:29 AM)Goose link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=17425.msg201305#msg201305 date=1505739516]
The correct answer was "yes, we needed to play better on offense to help our defense, and I take responsibility for that."
I only partially concur. The coach has to say, and believe, "When we bring our defense on with a four point lead and six minutes left in the game, I expect them to hold that lead. I don't care if they are tired, or that the other team is good. That is what we expect and require." Then he can say "That said, our offense should never have allowed the lead to be that small. We made way too many errors, and that has to stop. I am the head coach. Both things are on me." Why?  Because it's the truth. You both win and lose as a team. If not, finger pointing starts. You can't ever give the defense a pass on not holding a lead, no matter what the excuse may be.
[/quote]

I agree. If the defense needs to get a stop to win the game and they can't get it I don't think they have played well no matter what they have done in the rest of the game.

Re: Shaw's press conference - OutsiderFan - 09-18-2017

While I agree in theory that the defense has to get the last stop on the final drive, don't you have to be realistic, especially when the defense had only given up 13 point in the first 59 minutes?  Can you really expect a defense with a gassed DL to be that effective after playing 40 minutes, given the lack of depth on the DL?  Something is going to break playing with that small a margin for error.  And the reason the error was small was because the offense didn't to its job.  Given the head coach is responsible for the offense, it seems incumbent upon him to take the blame, not deflect and say no, the defense needs to play better.

To me, it's just a bad look for the head coach to ever not take responsibility when given the opportunity. 

Re: Shaw's press conference - Goose - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 01:15 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:While I agree in theory that the defense has to get the last stop on the final drive, don't you have to be realistic, especially when the defense had only given up 13 point in the first 59 minutes?  Can you really expect a defense with a gassed DL to be that effective after playing 40 minutes, given the lack of depth on the DL?  Something is going to break playing with that small a margin for error.
You and I can be realistic. The coach and the players can't be. "We are really tired. We give up." isn't going to cut it. There are times that the offense is going to make mistakes. As a coach, you can't give the defense a pass in those cases.
Quote: And the reason the error was small was because the offense didn't to its job.  Given the head coach is responsible for the offense, it seems incumbent upon him to take the blame, not deflect and say no, the defense needs to play better.
Not quite what he said, but I take your point. That is why in my reply I added the "That said..." part. It would have been good for Shaw to acknowledge the fact the score shouldn't have been so close. However, if he was going to leave out one of the two, it had to be the second. You can never, ever, make failure an option, even though we all know that both offenses and defenses fail.
Quote:To me, it's just a bad look for the head coach to ever not take responsibility when given the opportunity.
Agreed.

Re: Shaw's press conference - hayaka - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 01:15 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:While I agree in theory that the defense has to get the last stop on the final drive, don't you have to be realistic, especially when the defense had only given up 13 point in the first 59 minutes? Can you really expect a defense with a gassed DL to be that effective after playing 40 minutes, given the lack of depth on the DL?  Something is going to break playing with that small a margin for error.  And the reason the error was small was because the offense didn't to its job.  Given the head coach is responsible for the offense, it seems incumbent upon him to take the blame, not deflect and say no, the defense needs to play better.

To me, it's just a bad look for the head coach to ever not take responsibility when given the opportunity.

There had just been a 25 minute break due to the light failure.  The DL (and the rest of the D) should have been relatively fresh, thanks to the delay.

Re: Shaw's press conference - stupac2 - 09-18-2017

(09-18-2017, 04:34 PM)hayaka link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=17425.msg201388#msg201388 date=1505765722]
While I agree in theory that the defense has to get the last stop on the final drive, don't you have to be realistic, especially when the defense had only given up 13 point in the first 59 minutes? Can you really expect a defense with a gassed DL to be that effective after playing 40 minutes, given the lack of depth on the DL?  Something is going to break playing with that small a margin for error.  And the reason the error was small was because the offense didn't to its job.  Given the head coach is responsible for the offense, it seems incumbent upon him to take the blame, not deflect and say no, the defense needs to play better.

To me, it's just a bad look for the head coach to ever not take responsibility when given the opportunity.

There had just been a 25 minute break due to the light failure.  The DL (and the rest of the D) should have been relatively fresh, thanks to the delay.
[/quote]

Well there's a difference between "not winded" and "fresh". In fact, having a long delay could be problematic because your body's recovery mechanisms could start to set in. I'm no physiologist, and am obviously not in the same shape as these guys, but if I've just busted my ass and then sat around for half an hour, I'm not really ready to go bust my ass more, know what I mean?

Re: Shaw's press conference - hayaka - 09-19-2017

(09-18-2017, 08:37 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=hayaka link=topic=17425.msg201437#msg201437 date=1505777689]
[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=17425.msg201388#msg201388 date=1505765722]
While I agree in theory that the defense has to get the last stop on the final drive, don't you have to be realistic, especially when the defense had only given up 13 point in the first 59 minutes? Can you really expect a defense with a gassed DL to be that effective after playing 40 minutes, given the lack of depth on the DL?  Something is going to break playing with that small a margin for error.  And the reason the error was small was because the offense didn't to its job.  Given the head coach is responsible for the offense, it seems incumbent upon him to take the blame, not deflect and say no, the defense needs to play better.

To me, it's just a bad look for the head coach to ever not take responsibility when given the opportunity.

There had just been a 25 minute break due to the light failure.  The DL (and the rest of the D) should have been relatively fresh, thanks to the delay.
[/quote]

Well there's a difference between "not winded" and "fresh". In fact, having a long delay could be problematic because your body's recovery mechanisms could start to set in. I'm no physiologist, and am obviously not in the same shape as these guys, but if I've just busted my ass and then sat around for half an hour, I'm not really ready to go bust my ass more, know what I mean?
[/quote]

I said "relatively fresh".  Obviously not as fresh as at the start of the game, but also no longer gassed thanks to the light delay.  And I don't understand your other argument.  Recovery mechanisms are setting in?  If that were true, then it would also be detrimental for the offense to give the D a break by taking 6 or 7 minutes off the clock (which would probably be 15-20 minutes in real time), as "recovery mechanisms" would be setting in.  I think a nice long drive by the O is something coaches hope will happen when having a fatigued defense.  I've never heard anyone suggest there is a downside to it.

Re: Shaw's press conference - stupac2 - 09-19-2017

That light delay would be a really, really long drive. It was about the length of a Super Bowl halftime and every year you hear about how that screws with teams. You also don't normally get a really long drive at the very end of the game.

All I'm saying is I can just as easily see the long break being harmful as helpful.