The CardBoard
What a Quality Win - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: What a Quality Win (/thread-14503.html)

Pages: 1 2

What a Quality Win - Snorlax94 - 10-08-2017

It wasn't until yesterday that it occurred to me that Stanford did not have a quality win this season yet and did not have a true away win this season yet, because the Rice game was at a neutral site.

Then Stanford goes up against an undefeated, ranked Utah team. In Salt Lake City, one of the tough places to play in the conference. During their Homecoming Game, in front of their alums. After they had two weeks to prepare for this game. With one of our top receiving targets injured. Against a coach that Shaw hadn't beaten, and a team we haven't beaten in the recent era.

And it was an impressive and I think fairly dominant win,  much more commanding the the final score board would indicate . And frankly I also thought there were a lot of bad calls against Stanford. (I don't dispute the targeting ones, I think they technically qualified).

I know there are still issues. I know there's a quarterback controversy. I know two key defenders are ineligible during the first half against Oregon.

But I think each tough quality win is really hard to do, and worth celebrating.

So well done, Stanford!


Re: What a Quality Win - norcard - 10-08-2017

We got lucky that their starting QB was injured and their backup (unlike Costello) was not up to the task.  I will say our offense exceeded my expectations against this defense despite terrible play calling at times.

Re: What a Quality Win - OutsiderFan - 10-08-2017

Troy Wiliams sucks donkey balls as a QB, but he outplayed Stanford's QBs in some respects.  The roughing/targeting calls were spectacularly stupid, especially the one on Phillips, on 4th down no less.  Stanford needed a botched punt to beat a terribly overrated Utah team by 3 points. So sure, it goes in the books as a quality win, beating a Top 20 team on the road, but that was a pretty miserable performance against a very mediocre Utah team USC will likely absolutely crush next week.

Stanford's OL was the difference in the game, IMO.  Yes, they struggled to open holes, but the pass protection was outstanding given what the OL faced.  They picked up blitzes and gave the QBs the time needed to get their throws off, without giving up sacks, negative plays and turnovers.

Obviously, Bryce Love was the difference.  Never seen anything like him.  How many games in a row has he had a 50+ yd TD run?

Re: What a Quality Win - winflop - 10-08-2017

(10-08-2017, 04:50 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:How many games in a row has he had a 50+ yd TD run?

I believe that's 8. Also 8 in a row with 100+, one shy of McCaffrey's record and one ahead of Gerhart

Re: What a Quality Win - JohnR34231 - 10-08-2017

(10-08-2017, 04:50 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:Troy Wiliams sucks donkey balls as a QB, but he outplayed Stanford's QBs in some respects.  The roughing/targeting calls were spectacularly stupid, especially the one on Phillips, on 4th down no less.  Stanford needed a botched punt to beat a terribly overrated Utah team by 3 points. So sure, it goes in the books as a quality win, beating a Top 20 team on the road, but that was a pretty miserable performance against a very mediocre Utah team U$C will likely absolutely crush next week.

Stanford's OL was the difference in the game, IMO.  Yes, they struggled to open holes, but the pass protection was outstanding given what the OL faced.  They picked up blitzes and gave the QBs the time needed to get their throws off, without giving up sacks, negative plays and turnovers.

Obviously, Bryce Love was the difference.  Never seen anything like him.  How many games in a row has he had a 50+ yd TD run?

It may have been a pretty miserable performance, but it sure beat the last time we went to SLC with a team that ultimately went to the Rose Bowl and lost to a team that went 5-7 on the year.
So as I said before, I'll take it.
I will say that if we expect to upset the Huskies or the Cougs, we are going to have to play much, much better.

Re: What a Quality Win - Phogge - 10-08-2017

Don't overlook Love taking on blitzers.

Re: What a Quality Win - OutsiderFan - 10-08-2017

Not saying it wasn't great to win, but it was not, IMO, a quality win because I don't see Utah as a quality team, and Stanford played barely well enough to win.  If Stanford won 30-13 or something like that, then maybe the fact they played that well would make me see it as a quality win.  Instead, IMO, Stanford won because Utah isn't very good, not because Stanford is especially good.

Stanford's run defense is terrible at #96 in country in YPC (4.77) and allowed Utah nearly half a yard pc more than its average.  The 3rd down defense is atrocious at #112 in the country, worse than even Cal.  Utah is #97 in 3rd down conversions, did much better than its season average, and had 25 first downs to Stanford's 14. 

Again, it's great to win, but I just take exception to Utah being considered a quality win.

Re: What a Quality Win - JohnR34231 - 10-08-2017

(10-08-2017, 06:40 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:Not saying it wasn't great to win, but it was not, IMO, a quality win because I don't see Utah as a quality team, and Stanford played barely well enough to win.  If Stanford won 30-13 or something like that, then maybe the fact they played that well would make me see it as a quality win.  Instead, IMO, Stanford won because Utah isn't very good, not because Stanford is especially good.

Stanford's run defense is terrible at #96 in country in YPC (4.77) and allowed Utah nearly half a yard pc more than its average.  The 3rd down defense is atrocious at #112 in the country, worse than even ןɐɔ.  Utah is #97 in 3rd down conversions, did much better than its season average, and had 25 first downs to Stanford's 14. 

Again, it's great to win, but I just take exception to Utah being considered a quality win.

I guess quality is in the eye of the beholder.
Shaw likened the Utah defense to an NFL one, so assuming he knows what he's talking about (I realize there are a few posters on this board who don't think so) they are at least pretty good there.

Re: What a Quality Win - OutsiderFan - 10-08-2017

Beat USC, San Diego State, Washington State, or Washington, and I'll label it a quality win.  Maybe ND could be one too.  We'll see.  I just don't see Utah on the same level as these teams.

Re: What a Quality Win - winflop - 10-08-2017

A win in Rice-Eccles is a quality win. Utah is a quality team. Maybe not an elite team, but in that stadium, at altitude, any win is a quality win.

We won in spite of mediocre QB play and terrible run defense, but were otherwise really really solid. I like the 3-3-5 defensive alignment in much of the second half with Kalambayi, Okereke, and Alfieri at the LB positions. I wonder if maybe they are going to move Alfieri back to OLB?

I was hoping that Shaw would call play action off the read option. Utah's safeties were cheating up so much especially in the second half the deep middle was wide open. Any kind of post from the wideouts or slipping a TE up the seam would be a brobdingnagian gain and would also keep those safeties more honest allowing for more effective running off that play.

I did like that Love got out into the passing game a little bit - I hope we see that 5 or so times a game.

There was also a very solid adjustment late in the game bringing Schultz into the backfield for additional pass protection. Worked like a charm & bought Chryst enough time to find open guys. He still made a few bad throws but he made some good ones too and didn't get picked off. Chryst played well enough to not lose the starting job and Costello didn't play well enough to take it from him. I do wish Shaw had stuck with one guy throughout the second half and I hope we don't continue to see musical QBs going forward.

Re: What a Quality Win - BostonCard - 10-08-2017

Utah had a botched punt (which gave us three points), but Stanford had its own mistakes that took points off the board.  To wit, Marx' illegal motion on a play that Love would have scored in costing us 4 points after we settled for a field goal.  A missed chip shot field goal that Toner is almost automatic cost us three more.  The first targeting hit was on fourth and 7 from the Utah 23.  Without the penalty, Utah turns it over on downs and doesn't score the TD to bring it within 3, and we probably run three times into the line and kick a field goal to extend the margin.

Also, Shasta was on the board telling us that their long-snapping has been a problem all year.  In addition to the botched punt, they scored their final extra point through a miraculous kick by the kicker, who literally double-clutched and still managed to kick it through.

Mistakes are part of the game, and though I am biased by not having fixated on Utah's mistakes, I count 10 points that we left off the board due to mistakes, and 7 we gifted Utah.

BC

Re: What a Quality Win - gocard14 - 10-08-2017

Not a quality team? I get that Utah was relatively untested, but a win against a ranked opponent on the road in one of the top 3 most difficult places to play in the conference (they can duke it out with Oregon and UW) is a great win. I’d have loved to see Love run all over them, our D stuff their running game, and fewer penalties as well, but coming into this game I wasn’t feeling confidant about a win, much less one in which we were pretty clearly the better team on the field regardless of the final score.

Re: What a Quality Win - SF_Cardinal_Fan - 10-08-2017

Utah is a highly ranked, well coached team, with an outstanding roster of athletes.
Last night Stanford did very well to play in front of Utah's home crowd and win the game.

Re: What a Quality Win - lex24 - 10-08-2017

The revisionist history is hilarious. During the week, up against a tough team, in a tough place to play with a great coach that. almost never loses after a bye week.

Game won.  Now, Utah not so good etc.



Re: What a Quality Win - Spiny_Norman - 10-08-2017

The last time Stanford beat a top 25 team outside of the state of California was November 2012 at Oregon.  Beating Utah in SLC was a really important win for this team.

Re: What a Quality Win - OutsiderFan - 10-08-2017

I haven't believed Utah is a Top 25 quality team at any time since the 2017 NFL Draft.  Losing 4/5 OL to the draft is going to hurt a team like Utah.  And as mentioned in another post, Troy Williams is not good enough at QB. 

Look at Utah's resume:

- Beat FCS North Dakota unimpressively
- Barely beat a terrible 1-5 BYU
- Beat a terrible (possibly worst in FBS) 1-6 San Jose State
- Barely beat Arizona (game they were outplayed in and should have lost but for 5 UA turnovers)
- Lost to a one dimensional Stanford team with a weak defense at home

Utah may have been quality in other seasons, but the facts about this season demonstrate Utah is not a quality team in 2017.  Not a big believer in FPI necessarily but there is a reason they are #46 by that measure.  The victory over #31 UCLA is Stanford's best win, and I don't see anyone calling that a quality win.  FWIW, SDSU is #40 and ASU is #49.

I know you guys don't like this kind of honestly, but this is the truth.  Utah is not what you thought they were.  Believing they are is going to cloud your judgment on Stanford.

Re: What a Quality Win - d4cohn - 10-08-2017

(10-08-2017, 12:48 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I haven't believed Utah is a Top 25 quality team at any time since the 2017 NFL Draft.  Losing 4/5 OL to the draft is going to hurt a team like Utah.  And as mentioned in another post, Troy Williams is not good enough at QB. 

Look at Utah's resume:

- Beat FCS North Dakota unimpressively
- Barely beat a terrible 1-5 BYU
- Beat a terrible (possibly worst in FBS) 1-6 San Jose State
- Barely beat Arizona (game they were outplayed in and should have lost but for 5 UA turnovers)
- Lost to a one dimensional Stanford team with a weak defense at home

Utah may have been quality in other seasons, but the facts about this season demonstrate Utah is not a quality team in 2017.  Not a big believer in FPI necessarily but there is a reason they are #46 by that measure.  The victory over #31 UCLA is Stanford's best win, and I don't see anyone calling that a quality win.  FWIW, SDSU is #40 and ASU is #49.

I know you guys don't like this kind of honestly, but this is the truth.  Utah is not what you thought they were.  Believing they are is going to cloud your judgment on Stanford.

Utah may be ranked #46 in FPI and have been overrated, but winning on the road in college football is generally pretty difficult to do, unless the team is awful like Oregon State. Taking that into account, ESPN gave us a FPI game score of 86 (on a 0-100 scale), which is only two points below our best win of the season against UCLA. I believe that was an imperfect but nevertheless very solid win last night.

Re: What a Quality Win - Goose - 10-08-2017

(10-08-2017, 12:48 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I haven't believed Utah is a Top 25 quality team at any time since the 2017 NFL Draft.  Losing 4/5 OL to the draft is going to hurt a team like Utah.  And as mentioned in another post, Troy Williams is not good enough at QB. 

Look at Utah's resume:

- Beat FCS North Dakota unimpressively
- Barely beat a terrible 1-5 BYU
- Beat a terrible (possibly worst in FBS) 1-6 San Jose State
- Barely beat Arizona (game they were outplayed in and should have lost but for 5 UA turnovers)
- Lost to a one dimensional Stanford team with a weak defense at home

Utah may have been quality in other seasons, but the facts about this season demonstrate Utah is not a quality team in 2017.  Not a big believer in FPI necessarily but there is a reason they are #46 by that measure.  The victory over #31 UCLA is Stanford's best win, and I don't see anyone calling that a quality win.  FWIW, SDSU is #40 and ASU is #49.

I know you guys don't like this kind of honestly, but this is the truth.  Utah is not what you thought they were.  Believing they are is going to cloud your judgment on Stanford.
I think there is no doubt that Utah isn't a great team. I think they have an adequate to pretty good run defense. I think their pass defense is still pretty much untested, but it didn't look great last night. Their running game is not impressive, although they did pretty well against us. I also think that their offense just didn't play very well against us, particularly the QB. He has played better in the past, but he was on a better team. I also think that Stanford's defense played pretty well against Utah last night. Except for the targeting calls, everybody did what they were supposed to do. I still think we don't really know how good Utah is or is not, but they are at best a "B" team this year. Beating them at home is nice, but in no way predictive about WSU or UW.

Re: What a Quality Win - SeattleTree - 10-08-2017

OF, you're entitled to believe anything you'd like about Utah. I, for one, am going to celebrate a tough road win, in conference, against a team Stanford hasn't defeated in awhile. It's not clouding my judgment to do so. But I feel no need to diminish or embellish Stanford's win. I'm just going to enjoy it.

Maybe Stanford should go after that stellar coaching staff across the Bay to correct some of the mistakes that made what should have been an easy win on the road against a ranked, undefeated but apparently unworthy and overrated conference opponent such a difficult task?  It's clearly worked for the folks across the Bay the last couple of weeks.

Re: What a Quality Win - teejers1 - 10-08-2017

I see OF's points, but we've seen better Stanford teams lose to Utah (at Eccles and on The Farm).  It's hard not to view this as a quality W.

As BC noted, erase the fourth down targeting call and Stanford wins by 10, holds Utah to 13 points, and we'd be nodding our heads after a stellar defensive performance. 

As it was, Stanford won by 3 while employing a difficult-to-comprehend QB shuffle and less-than-stellar O attack.

I'll take it . . .