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Team staying the course - hardball01 - 10-20-2017

I am so thankful that the coaching staff and players have a much more level head than the C.ardboard, myself included. The panic button is hit very quickly by the majority of us from game to game, often from series to series and sometimes from play to play. If Coach Shaw and the rest of the team did this I can't imagine we would have enjoyed the success that they have given us over the past decade.

I get that it is the prerogative of the fanatic to do this. I am not complaining that we are hot-heads because this board would be boring if we were calm about the Wildcat, QB depth chart and lack of intermediate passing etc.

Thanks Coach Shaw. And keep it up. I am sure we will too.

Re: Team staying the course - OutsiderFan - 10-20-2017

If staying the course means shuffling the OL and changing QBs like socks, I agree.

In all seriousness, it's a bit off to claim Stanford's coaching staff has stayed the course this season.  I'm not saying it would have been better to not change anything as the season evolved, just that changes were made to reflect what many fans were calling to see happen. Namely, Little was put in as the starting LT and Costello got to play QB.

That was probably the plan all along.  It just didn't happen as fast as many of the fans wanted, and to everyone's chagrin, probably cost Stanford a game it had no business losing.

If the coaching staff is willing to play Costello a few series a game because they aren't 100% sold on Chryst, and/or because they know how talented Costello is and they want to get him some reps,  I'm at least placated with this even though I believe Costello is the better player with higher upside.

They have pretty much stayed the course on defense, though it does seem Swann and Williams are going to get more opportunities down the stretch.  Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any available answers for the awful run defense, so not a lot of hand-wringing from the fans on this front.

Re: Team staying the course - Hulk01 - 10-20-2017

No Stanford fans insisted that Little should start in the San Diego State game, and damn few were insisting on Costello, at that point, either.  We lost to USC because our defense allowed them 42 points and not because our quarterback failed to lead our offense to at least 43. 

Re: Team staying the course - FarmBoy - 10-20-2017

Welcome to the board, Mrs Shaw.



Re: Team staying the course - CTcard - 10-20-2017

(10-20-2017, 10:54 AM)Hulk01 link Wrote:No Stanford fans insisted that Little should start in the San Diego State game, and damn few were insisting on Costello, at that point, either.  We lost to U$C because our defense allowed them 42 points and not because our quarterback failed to lead our offense to at least 43.

Well, there were generally calls to replace last year's tackles, and to throw in Sarell and Little. Granted the latter were not based upon any knowledge of how well they were able to play. It turns out the coaching staff was also looking to move Little up, though apparently Sarell is less ready.


And I would say tons of fans were insisting upon Costello, well before the UCLA game.
Though on that point I would return to the original poster: this is the area that Shaw has most "stayed the course". What has happed at QB is that the coaching staff has stayed with Chryst to the extent they have been able to do so with respect to player health, and that staying of the course has gone against much fan sentiment.
[Which I think continues. My guess is that this board would prefer to see Costello at QB, and my further guess is that other Stanford fan boards would prefer this much more strongly.]


Whether the coaching staff has really stayed the course depends upon what you mean - and what you notice.
There are always lots of adjustments - defensive looks are seen with varying frequencies, the offense adjusts the preference for different plays, players move up and down on the depth chart.

[This year there we've seen all of the above. Defense has moved to more 3-man and fewer 2-man fronts, I think we've backed off a little on outside tight coverage. The offense simplified for Costello,  and now we see things like the return of the rollout. On personnel, we've all seen the evolution of the OL, JJAW has become the #1 deep threat, Tyler now in for specialty assignments only, Alfieri getting more time at ILB, Robinson and now maybe Fox getting more time at OLB, Buncom moving ahead of Simmons at S. ]


But, there are things our coaching staff does stick to. 
We are committed to being a power-run team first, throwing primarily for first downs and big plays.
We are committed to huddling and running clock.
We are committed on defense to not being beat over the top, to funneling runners to the ILB for tackles, to the front handling the opponents OL without extra help (something sorely tested these days) so we can keep guys in coverage.
We are committed to not giving the opponent short fields - so punts from relatively deep in opponents' territory, very conservative play calling inside our own 10 (maybe 20), etc.

Re: Team staying the course - washingtonismoney - 10-20-2017

Well, I'm not convinced the coaches want to be a power-run team first -- and I'm surprised given your emphasis on the number of games in which the coaches run the ball too little. It seems to me the coaches start out a lot of seasons wanting to see if they can throw the ball more, and then get back to basics as the season goes on.

To me this season (so far) has been a triumph of discovering which variation of the theme works. Like musicians reprising a jazz standard, they know the feel they want -- but also know a different arrangement might make for a better tune.

Re: Team staying the course - Hulk01 - 10-20-2017

A.T. Hall will be no worse than honorable mention all conference.  Heeding Stanford fan's advice to throw him out is looks to be among the better decisions that Shaw and Bloomgren did not make.

And keeping our other tackle, David Bright, looks at least as smart. He's going to make first or second team all Pac-12 at guard, and has been our best offensive lineman all season. 

These same voices, or many of them, also clamored for  Brandon Fanaika at nose tackle, a position for which he is horribly suited.  He struggles enough getting his pad level low enough to play guard. 

Re: Team staying the course - BostonCard - 10-20-2017

(10-20-2017, 12:41 PM)Hulk01 link Wrote:Heeding Stanford fan's advice to throw him out is looks to be among the better decisions that Shaw and Bloomgren have made.

Pretty sure you are missing a "not" there.  Really hard to complain about the OL now; 0 sacks given up in 4 games and Love having a record season running the ball.  Moreover, we've done it despite some missing pieces in odd weeks (Hall missing due to illness, Little out last week and then his back-up getting dinged up in game).  Bloomberg the OL coach is making Bloomberg the OC look like a genius.

BC

Re: Team staying the course - Hurlburt88 - 10-20-2017

I do think Shaw tends to take the long-view versus short term reaction, which I think is what the original post was getting at.    As I have posted before, I also think he is a chess player who sets up things used late in the season over many games. 

Re: Team staying the course - teejers1 - 10-20-2017

hardball, there is a lot of season left (and against better competition).  I hope the point of your post retains its force as the season progresses.

I'm not one who watches enough/knows enough about individual play at all positions - sticking instead to a layman's view of the most visible positions - so I never waded into the OL debate (or other positions, outside QB).  On this, I'm very open to the notion that Chryst was not 100% at start of the season physically and has gotten better with each passing week.  And the last game showed that Chryst can drop perfect balls in relatively good coverage when he is not being pressured. However, we've yet to see any consistenly good play from Chryst (and plenty of un-good play), especially against good defenses.  It may be that Chryst has turned the proverbial corner and will be able to perform in that crucible - there are plenty of tests coming up.  But even Mrs. Shaw would have to admit that remains an open question.

It would be a shame for Stanford to lose another game this season due to poor QB play.  Stanford could very well get beat by comparable or better teams (Washington and ND come to mind), and that happens.  You just don't like losing games Stanford has "no business losing," to borrow a phrase from earlier in this thread.

Let's hope for a strong 2H of 2017.  A great season is still definitely in play.

Re: Team staying the course - Mick - 10-20-2017

(10-20-2017, 12:28 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:Well, I'm not convinced the coaches want to be a power-run team first -- and I'm surprised given your emphasis on the number of games in which the coaches run the ball too little. It seems to me the coaches start out a lot of seasons wanting to see if they can throw the ball more, and then get back to basics as the season goes on.

To me this season (so far) has been a triumph of discovering which variation of the theme works. Like musicians reprising a jazz standard, they know the feel they want -- but also know a different arrangement might make for a better tune.


I like the backup guitarist over the starting guitarist.

Re: Team staying the course - CTcard - 10-20-2017

(10-20-2017, 12:28 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:Well, I'm not convinced the coaches want to be a power-run team first -- and I'm surprised given your emphasis on the number of games in which the coaches run the ball too little.

Well, you're right. It's a matter of degree.

Occasionally I put on my pop-psychology hat and imagine that Shaw has the internal angel-devil conversation going on in his head.

One voice is telling him "Chuck the ball around. That's exciting. Those 0-4 yard runs aren't getting us anywhere. Besides, the fans think you're stuck on the inside run game - show 'em that they're wrong. You can be wild and crazy too. Throw it man - throw it!!  Chicks dig the long ball."
 
Then the other voice chimes in:"Come on now David. We have an identity. It's how you've managed to recruit all those linemen and RBs. Ride em man. And don't throw games away when you don't have to. Slow is steady, steady is fast."


So, it seems he often starts seasons listening to voice #1, then voice #2 takes over as the season progresses.

Which is the angel and which the devil you can decide for yourself.


Re: Team staying the course - Canalejas - 10-20-2017

Does anybody else consider "stay the course" a contronym?  It's sounded funny to me ever since it came into wider usage in the past few decades.

Re: Team staying the course - lex24 - 10-20-2017

Teejers, almost every team loses a game to a team it has “no business” losing to. WSU got mauled by a Univ of Berkeley team that had not played well the previous weeks and was beat up. Washington lost and scored 7 points against an ASU team that had not distinguished itself defensively. Clemson (who I think has college football’s best coach) lost to Syracuse. And that was just last week. Three top 10 teams losing to unranked teams. SDS, btw, is better than all three.






(10-20-2017, 02:10 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:hardball, there is a lot of season left (and against better competition).  I hope the point of your post retains its force as the season progresses.

I'm not one who watches enough/knows enough about individual play at all positions - sticking instead to a layman's view of the most visible positions - so I never waded into the OL debate (or other positions, outside QB).  On this, I'm very open to the notion that Chryst was not 100% at start of the season physically and has gotten better with each passing week.  And the last game showed that Chryst can drop perfect balls in relatively good coverage when he is not being pressured. However, we've yet to see any consistenly good play from Chryst (and plenty of un-good play), especially against good defenses.  It may be that Chryst has turned the proverbial corner and will be able to perform in that crucible - there are plenty of tests coming up.  But even Mrs. Shaw would have to admit that remains an open question.

It would be a shame for Stanford to lose another game this season due to poor QB play.  Stanford could very well get beat by comparable or better teams (Washington and ND come to mind), and that happens.  You just don't like losing games Stanford has "no business losing," to borrow a phrase from earlier in this thread.

Let's hope for a strong 2H of 2017.  A great season is still definitely in play.


Re: Team staying the course - cardcrimson - 10-20-2017

(10-20-2017, 10:55 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:Welcome to the board, Mrs Shaw.

Now that's funny.

Re: Team staying the course - cardcrimson - 10-20-2017

(10-20-2017, 06:19 PM)lex24 link Wrote:Teejers, almost every team loses a game to a team it has “no business” losing to. WSU got mauled by a Univ of Berkeley team that had not played well the previous weeks and was beat up. Washington lost and scored 7 points against an ASU team that had not distinguished itself defensively. Clemson (who I think has college football’s best coach) lost to Syracuse. And that was just last week. Three top 10 teams losing to unranked teams. SDS, btw, is better than all three.

Lex, you lost me at Dabo being the best coach in the county. Great story and a great guy (and I"ve inside info on both). Let's see how he does over a few years before we anoint him. He belongs at Alabama when Saban moves on. Then again, the masses in Dixie will be calling for the head of Saban's replacement the first year they don't win a NC without him.

Re: Team staying the course - cardcrimson - 10-20-2017

As far as staying the course, I think Heath Ledger or Mel Gibson immortalized the comment in The Patriot. That said,

Historically, most teams used the run to set up the pass. Bill Walsh developed the concept to use the pass to set up the run. Our "course" seems to have been to use the run to set up the run, with the occasional pass in third and long. "It's what we do."

I don't follow the depth charts, the recruiting, the spring games, or the practice sessions, so I have to trust the coaches on most things. Play calling is a different. Creativity in play calling is a "stay the course" issue for me, and something that drives me nuts. Sometimes, the play calling is brilliant and creative. Other times, not so much. I would prefer that our course on play calling was consistently inconsistent. Keep the defense guessing.

Re: Team staying the course - lex24 - 10-20-2017

Start first with a philosophy. Recruit to it. Play to it. “Creativity” is great. But you win by executing a game plan. Physical, run first, grind clock, power football has been incredibly successful for Stanford.









(10-20-2017, 06:49 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:As far as staying the course, I think Heath Ledger or Mel Gibson immortalized the comment in The Patriot. That said,

Historically, most teams used the run to set up the pass. Bill Walsh developed the concept to use the pass to set up the run. Our "course" seems to have been to use the run to set up the run, with the occasional pass in third and long. "It's what we do."

I don't follow the depth charts, the recruiting, the spring games, or the practice sessions, so I have to trust the coaches on most things. Play calling is a different. Creativity in play calling is a "stay the course" issue for me, and something that drives me nuts. Sometimes, the play calling is brilliant and creative. Other times, not so much. I would prefer that our course on play calling was consistently inconsistent. Keep the defense guessing.


Re: Team staying the course - CTcard - 10-20-2017

(10-20-2017, 06:37 PM)cardcrimson link Wrote:Great story and a great guy (and I"ve inside info on both). ... He belongs at Alabama when Saban moves on.

So, now you're contradicting yourself.
Great guy or satan?

Re: Team staying the course - cardcrimson - 10-20-2017

(10-20-2017, 07:58 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=cardcrimson link=topic=17736.msg207192#msg207192 date=1508549852]
Great story and a great guy (and I"ve inside info on both). ... He belongs at Alabama when Saban moves on.

So, now you're contradicting yourself.
Great guy or satan?
[/quote]

You lost me. Do you know his history? All that is Crimson isn't evil.