SF Giants are cleaning house - Printable Version

SF Giants are cleaning house - Printable Version

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SF Giants are cleaning house - BobK - 10-21-2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/bang_sports/status/921827441605337088

Sad aboutÂ Righetti but maybe it's time.Â Â

Also Dusty Baker let go byÂ Washington.Â They will look for their 6th manager in 10 years.Â

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - lex24 - 10-21-2017

Well Rags and the bunch had a great run. Personally I would have liked to see Bobby Evans reassigned.

As for Dusty, it sucks. He has that elephant on his back. That 5th inning sure as hell wasnt his fault. Frankly I wonder if the thought was that his post season struggles added pressure to his players. Good manager. Better person. Would sure like to see him get a ring.

(10-21-2017, 01:06 PM)BobK link Wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/bang_sports/status/921827441605337088

Sad aboutÂ Righetti but maybe it's time.Â Â

Also Dusty Baker let go byÂ Washington.Â They will look for their 6th manager in 10 years.

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - Mick - 10-21-2017

(10-21-2017, 01:35 PM)lex24 link Wrote:Well Rags and the bunch had a great run. Personally I would have liked to see Bobby Evans reassigned.

As for Dusty, it sucks. He has that elephant on his back. That 5th inning sure as hell wasnt his fault. Frankly I wonder if the thought was that his post season struggles added pressure to his players. Good manager. Better person. Would sure like to see him get a ring.

[quote author=BobK link=topic=17746.msg207259#msg207259 date=1508616415]
https://mobile.twitter.com/bang_sports/status/921827441605337088

Sad aboutÂ Righetti but maybe it's time.Â Â

Also Dusty Baker let go byÂ Washington.Â They will look for their 6th manager in 10 years.

[/quote]

Agreed about both Evans and Righetti.Â Giants finished #16 in ERA and T18 in WHIP.Â They have the easiest park in the majors to play, and they spent tons on their pitching.Â Their pitching stunk.Â Gardner also lost his job, same with Steve Decker (he was an undisciplined hitter, and yet he was a hitting coach?).Â Meulens will be reassigned to bench coach, and that Wotus will move to the front office.Â David Bell (you may remember him as the Cody Ross of the 2002 World Series) is a keeper.Â His grandfather and father were in front offices, and David will be the Director of Player Personnel.

Giants were second to last in the majors in on base percentage and OBP.Â Last in HRs.Â Yuck.

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - BobK - 10-23-2017

Coming soon ?Â Chili Davis as hitting coach and Chris Bosio as Hitters big coach ?Â

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - teejers1 - 10-23-2017

Heard Larry Krueger on KNBR this morning offer something pretty compelling: the Giants in 2017 were chock-full of minor leaguers and has-beens who saw significant PT (and he rattled off about 15 players who fit one of the categories, including Arroyo, Calixte, Ryder Jones, Jarrett Parker, Mac Williamson, Pablo Sandoval, etc.).Â His point being that "reassigning" coaches is like moving the Titanic's deck chairs - they weren't the problem, the non-MLB roster was the problem.

I think the pitching was just okay, but the hitting was worse (just gut feel).Â No pop.Â No ability to hit with men in scoring position.Â And that was my main take on Buster, too - no power, and he got an awful lot of singles with 2 outs and nobody on. . .

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - DC 86 - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 11:09 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:No pop.Â No ability to hit with men in scoring position.Â And that was my main take on Buster, too - no power, and he got an awful lot of singles with 2 outs and nobody on. . .

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - BobK - 10-23-2017

Just the facts D.C.Â Nice

Of course the Giants biggest problem is hitting and to narrow that down lack of HR power

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - OutsiderFan - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 12:40 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=17746.msg207529#msg207529 date=1508782145]
No pop.Â No ability to hit with men in scoring position.Â And that was my main take on Buster, too - no power, and he got an awful lot of singles with 2 outs and nobody on. . .

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - DC 86 - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 12:51 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:Posey may have led the league in doubles by catchers and had a decent OPS, but he was a poor run producer in 2017.

Well, among catchers with a minimum of 300 plate appearances (33 players qualified), Posey led the major leagues in both RC (Runs Created) and RC/27 (Runs Created per 27 outs).

If you are looking solely at context-driven raw stats such as Runs and RBI you run into the problem of not being able to put up big numbers if your teammates aren't on base and aren't driving you in when you reach base. But in terms of rate stats Posey was still the best run producing catcher in the majors (just ahead of Gary Sanchez). If Posey batted in a lineup surrounded by Aaron Judge et al he would deliver the superficial raw numbers that you are looking for.

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - OutsiderFan - 10-23-2017

I didn't watch many Giants games this past season, but before throwing in the towel and rooting for the #1 pick, Posey failed with RISP more times than I can remember.

But thanks for the contextual numbers.Â Makes his season seem less worse.

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - teejers1 - 10-23-2017

What percentage of the GP did Posey play 1B?

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - DC 86 - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 01:33 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:What percentage of the GP did Posey play 1B?

I assume this is a rhetorical question, but Posey recorded 400 plate appearances as a catcher and 126 plate appearances as a first baseman.

It is a valid point that if Posey can't catch then his relative value suffers significantly, but that's not really a material issue now.

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - teejers1 - 10-23-2017

Actually, the point was the comparison to Posey with other catchers, who typically suffer far more day-to-day wear and tear on the body.Â

Posey was a catcher roughly 75% of the time (76% to be more precise), based on ABs.Â The rhetorical question is does that same percentageapply to the other catchers you compared him to?Â I suspect not (but don't know).

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - DC 86 - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 01:55 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:Actually, the point was the comparison to Posey with other catchers, who typically suffer far more day-to-day wear and tear on the body.Â

Posey was a catcher roughly 75% of the time (76% to be more precise), based on ABs.Â The rhetorical question is does that same percentageapply to the other catchers you compared him to?Â I suspect not (but don't know).

Fair enough. Top five catchers in MLB ranked by Runs Created (minimum 300 plate appearances):

1. Buster Posey (89.9 RC) - 400 PA as a catcher, 163 PA as a IB/DH/PH
2. Gary Sanchez (84.1 RC) - 442 PA as a catcher, 79 PA as a 1B/DH/PH
3. J.T. Realmuto (77.8 RC - 528 PA as a catcher, 48 PA as a IB/DH/PH
4. Yadier Molina (66.6 RC) - 529 AB as a catcher, 4 AB as a IB/PH
5. Mike Zunino (63.8 RC) - 429 PA as a catcher, 6 PA as a DH/PH

Your point is valid that Posey benefits to some extent (although difficult to quantify) by moonlighting as a first baseman, however note that even the 10th ranked primary catcher in MLB (Alex Avila) only recorded a 53.9 RC (with 295 PA as a catcher and 86 PA as a IB/DH/PH).

His OPS when catching was .863 while his OPS as a 1B/DH/PH was .854, so while Posey benefited from less wear and tear over the course of the season his performance was consistent regardless of where he played.

The bottom line is that Posey is an extremely valuable baseball player given the scarcity of catchers who also contribute offensively even if he catches fewer games than some of his counterparts. It's natural that fingers are pointed at him since he is the team's most visible player, but it's erroneous to blame him for the team's problems this year, especially based on anecdotal evidence that is easily disproven by statistics.

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - Phogge - 10-23-2017

Yeah no power but a bigger problem at home is that they are a slow team in a fast ballpark. And if you can't score the Boche Way you need to manufacture runs but of course that is viewed as Pussyball by today's young testosterone "sluggers."

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - Mick - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 12:51 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=17746.msg207545#msg207545 date=1508787655]
[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=17746.msg207529#msg207529 date=1508782145]
No pop.Â No ability to hit with men in scoring position.Â And that was my main take on Buster, too - no power, and he got an awful lot of singles with 2 outs and nobody on. . .

If you define "pop" as strictly home runs then it's true that Posey only hit 12 this year, but he led all major league catchers in doubles (34).

His overall OPS (on base + slugging) was .861, however in RISP situations (runners in scoring position) his OPS was slightly higher (.873) which doesn't support the contention that a substantial amount of his performance was achieved in meaningless situations, the opposite in fact.

Buster Posey is literally the least of SF's problems at this point.
[/quote]

Posey may have led the league in doubles by catchers and had a decent OPS, but he was a poor run producer in 2017.Â A problem, yes, but nowhere near the catastraf*ck that was the outfield defense.Â IIRC, the Giants were not only last in MLB in defensive runs prevented (actually were negative), but the gap between them and #29 was wider than between #1 and #29!
[/quote]

He didn't just lead the league in doubles, he led all of major league baseball.Â His OPS was seventh among guys with 80 games played, third among catchers with 100+ games played.

Posey was fifth in RBIs among all major league catchers and third in runs scored.Â Plus, of the top 10 run producing catchers, he struck out the least, just 66 times.Â He was sixth in caught-stealing percentage among catchers with 90 games caught or more, his fielding percentage was eighth among that same group.

And Giants catchers only had six passed balls all season, best in both leagues and T13 in wild pitches.

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - Phogge - 10-23-2017

Posey is the best they have and that is the big problem.

Re: SF Giants are cleaning house - lex24 - 10-23-2017

Pure bunk on the hitting with RISP.Â Lifetime overall slash line:Â 308/376/474/850

Posey lifetime slash line with RISP. .314/.411/.481/.892

So his numbers are BETTER with RISP

Breaking it down further:

First- 333/382/527/904
Second .295/441/448/888
Third. 317/440/550/940
1st and 2nd. 307/375/460/835
1st and 3D. 407/426/618/1044
2nd and 3D. 356/495/475/969
Loaded. 238/237/450/687

So you can blast him for being lousy with the bases Loaded. Btw notice the highest OBP are with first base open. 441/440/495.Â

Overall with men on base. .322/399/500/899

He was down a very little bit this year. .315/.445/427/873. The 445 tells you how much he was pitched around.
I mean - how many decent pitches to hit do you think he gets with RISP these days. Unless you are an idiot you pitch around him. Because he has nobody behind him you fear.Â Posey is the one guy you make sure doesnt beat you.

As for run production in 2017, its tough to drive in runs when no one is on.

Hes a gaps guy. Not an HR guy.Â Although each of the past two years he had double digit HRs first half and next to none second half. Because he runs down and/gets knicked up.

First half:Â .324/406/498/904. 10 HRs
Second half. .315/.392/416/808Â 2 HRs

16 was even more pronounced (and he had a wrist issue most the second half)

First half:Â .292/.366/.478/.843. 11 HRs
Second half.Â .282/.357/.383/.740. 3 HRs

Hed hit .325Â with 20-25 HRs if he played third base. But hes a great defensive catcher. The staff loves throwing to him. And he loves to catch.

Its not his fault that they have no other true offensive threats.

And then, of course, there is the park. Lifetime numbers

Home:Â 299/369/446/815. 49 HRs
Road:Â .316/383/499/882 79 HRs.

quote author=Mick link=topic=17746.msg207606#msg207606 date=1508804427]

(10-23-2017, 12:51 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:[quote author=DC 86 link=topic=17746.msg207545#msg207545 date=1508787655]
[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=17746.msg207529#msg207529 date=1508782145]
No pop.Â No ability to hit with men in scoring position.Â And that was my main take on Buster, too - no power, and he got an awful lot of singles with 2 outs and nobody on. . .