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College football in the Bay Area - lex24 - 10-23-2017

One of our posters concludes that Stanford’s attendance issues are the result of its boring offense. I beg to differ. The reasons are varied.  But to me these are the main ones:

1. The Bay Area is a lousy college football area. You want proof - look at the newspapers. I get one of the Bay Area Newspaper Group (East Bay Times). There are seldom stories about either Stanford or Cal. Even on game day there is no story. They generally only have a little keys to the game bit. Cal played at 5 Sat. Terrific game. It made page 3. Why the lack of coverage. Because there is generally a lack of interest

2. Start times. All over the place. Emphasis on late night games.  That impacts me. I simply don’t want to get home at 1 in the morning.

3. Diminishing interest  with kids  - both in the area and on campuses. Cal has about 30,000 students. They have an interesting team this year. Coming off their biggest win in forever. I went Sat - the crowd was maybe 30,000. The student section was less than half full. That never happened when I was in school. It was always close to if not full (student section not the stadium). I just don’t think kids are as interested in football today.  More and more THE GAME is basketball.

4. Schedule. The Bay Area college crowd has always been somewhat dependent on opponent. Ariz schools, Utah, Colorado simply aren’t going to draw here. The even year schedules in particular are “weak”. This year they have 4 draw games - UCLA, UW, Cal and ND. The last three should bring good crowds. But of course UW is on a Friday night. Which will probably reduce attendance.

Now perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps watching a team that wins with essentially an old fashioned Big 10 style turns people off. But then again, these last three years Stanford has had each year perhaps the most exciting player in College Football. That alone SHOULD bring out fans. But see 1-4.

College football attendance is dropping nationwide. NFL TV viewership is down. The sport itself is under the microscope.

It should not be surprising that they don’t draw.


Re: College football in the Bay Area - stupac2 - 10-23-2017

Does anyone contest this? In California it's all about pro sports. Locals get attached to the 49ers, not to Cal. People whine about the Pac-12 compared to the SEC, but no duh we're in a worse position than they are, the general population here doesn't care while the general population there does. Unless that ever changes we will be at a systematic disadvantage.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - 2006alum - 10-23-2017

There's also a heck of a lot less to do in Tuscaloosa than in the Bay Area. We're competing for comparatively more precious nights and weekends time from a more overscheduled population with a far larger set of options for recreation and leisure.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - BobK - 10-23-2017

It's TV.    It's large screen.  It's high Def.    it's all games are on TV.  I could have watched 20 games Saturday.   
I have Stanford season tix but now can watch all Stanford games on TV. 

Sure it's also pro sports.    But it's really TV 

Re: College football in the Bay Area - cctop - 10-23-2017

But Bob, the attendance decline is a long-term trend from well before Stanford could be seen on TV every week.

The decision to downsize the new stadium was derided at the time but in hindsight it was a gutsy and brilliant call.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - OutsiderFan - 10-23-2017

I don't think it's TV in a vacuum, but TV is most of the reason. 

Not only do you get to see more games by not attending them, but you also don't have to pay upwards of $30/ticket and at least 5 hrs. of your day to attend.  Attendance is down all over college football, and probably the NFL too, particularly for teams that aren't doing a lot of winning lately.

This trend has been going on for a long time.  My uncle told me how his Sequoia High School team played at a near sold-out  Stanford stadium in the early 1960's when Gary Beban was the QB.  Apparently high school football was very big in the Bay Area back then.  Stanford used to draw 60K+ when I was a season ticket holder from 1999-2001, and Big Games would routinely put 80K in seats for years. 

Re: College football in the Bay Area - needle - 10-23-2017

Quote: I don't think it's TV in a vacuum, but TV is most of the reason. 

Someone, somewhere has to be doing some kind of serious research on this, right?

Re: College football in the Bay Area - BobK - 10-23-2017

Well Gary never played before 80K at Stanford, sorry.  Although my attentance was only one of his Jr or Sr years.

We have played 3 home games, average tickets sold, 47K.    I appreciate that's not attendance, but can't sell many more tickets.  :D

Re: College football in the Bay Area - FarmBoy - 10-23-2017

I think it's easier for fans to flock to a school with the name of the state/locale on their Jersey. No one is from "Stanford". When Cal is good, anyone with an affinity for "California" feels a kinship. Even "Southern California" is more psychologically relatable than Stanford for the hundreds of thousands of people who live in SoCal.

I live in the Boston area. If Boston College of Boston University or UMASS started doing well in a sport, I might start following them with interest. But I would not care a bit if Holy Cross or Harvard or Brown started to do well.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - teejers1 - 10-23-2017

Way to start your post with a duplicitous mischaracterization.  I did NOT say that a boring offense is the cause of Stanford's poor attendance, as you well know.

What I did say is that it is a contributing factor to low attendance.  Let's agree that this isn't the 1980s anymore, when Stanford drew very well for crap opponents in the Old Lady (and in the '70s it was ridiculously good).  And let's accept all the explanation/rationalizations for poor attendance on The Farm (which don't seem to be plaguing many other college fan bases).  Given that, do you think an offense that isn't fun to watch will hurt or help dwindling attendance?  When the young, first-time family or attendees come to a game, don't you think everything matters when it comes to making them return attendees?

Winning is great and obviously the most important job for a football coach, but the Woody Hayes approach is a risky one.  For the umpteenth time:  The Rose Bowl and Seattle Bowl offenses (both pro-style) should be the model.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - Goose - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 11:24 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:but the Woody Hayes approach is a risky one.
Quite a few of us on this board are old enough to have actually seen a Woody Hayes team play. Anybody who thinks that Stanford under Shaw is similar to a Woody Hayes offense is downright silly. You might say it is too similar to a Pittsburgh Steelers offense, but even that would be wrong, as we don't use two backs very much. These days we are not even under center. So saying it is  a "Woody Hayes" approach is clearly incorrect. It is an attempt to associate what we do with a person and an offense that has been discredited. This association has no basis in fact. You might as well say it is a Darrell Royal approach. That would be no less accurate.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - cardcrimson - 10-23-2017

I think it's a little different. Waxing nostalgic about days of yore, game day was a great experience. Roll out of bed and head down to the tailgaters. Drink and eat. Go sit on the fifty, in the sunshine. Drink and eat. Watch a crazy offensive performance. Drink. Head back to the tailgates. Eat and drink. Head back to the room. Shower. Eat. Head out to the on campus parties. Drink.

Fun times for the students. Not sure if it's the same today, but I think not.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - Phogge - 10-23-2017

Turkey Day at Kezar was the biggest HS draw in the Bay Area in the 40's and 50's. About 25,000.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - BostonCard - 10-23-2017

I categorically reject your characterization that this offense isn't fun to watch.  When you have a player who can take it to the house every time he touches the ball, how can you say that that's not fun to watch?

BC

Re: College football in the Bay Area - CowboyIndian - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 11:24 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:And let's accept all the explanation/rationalizations for poor attendance on The Farm (which don't seem to be plaguing many other college fan bases). 

Kal, San Jose State?

Re: College football in the Bay Area - DC 86 - 10-23-2017

Stanford football attendance primarily come down to intractable issues:

College football is the only game in town in most college areas, whereas the Bay Area has a multitude of entertainment options (including a dozen professional teams) matched only by a handful of metropolitan areas in the country. Alabama is not the most exciting team (and its games are certainly not the most exciting games) but they face no competition in Tuscaloosa.

Stanford has a relatively small alumni base compounded by the fact that a relatively high portion of the alumni base doesn't live in the immediate area. A different situation than enormous public schools with a significant number of alums living within driving distance. The number of OSU alums living with in a reasonable distance of Columbus surely dwarfs our numbers.

Successful programs at private schools located in major metropolitan issues (e.g. Miami, Southern Cal) have also struggled with attendance issue to varying degrees, due to the same factors that affect Stanford.

Re: College football in the Bay Area - Stymie - 10-23-2017

I was at Harvard a week and a half ago.  It was a reunion weekend and the stadium was well less than 1/3 full.  There were far fewer attendees at my nearby HBS Old Boys rugby match v. the current team, but it had much more esprit de corps.  Harvard Square was hoaching with students and wannabees.  Watching football up close and personal is so yesterday......... :'(

Re: College football in the Bay Area - teejers1 - 10-23-2017

I'll give CI the inartful phrasing on my part - what I meant to convey is that on most of the TV games on Saturday that I tuned into (and some think TV is the #1 culprit why Stanford attendance is so low), the much larger stadia had a greater percentage of butts in seats than does Stanford on most Saturdays.

And sure, some program attendance is down.  But how many teams who have Stanford's winning percentage over the last several years have attendance that is so soft/low?  Not (m)any.

And to BC, I already asked the rhetorical question:  could you imagine this offense without Love?  He is a generational talent.  And one point that doesn't get much run here because we're all too polite in these parts:  there were rumblings that a big factor in our RB's decision NOT to play in the Sun Bowl had to do with the family's displeasure with how the RB was used (or overused, between the tackles).  If true, does that deserve any consideration when it comes to selecting an offensive scheme/approach?

And I still have yet to hear from anyone why Stanford shouldn't model its O circa Rose Bowl/Seattle Bowl seasons.  I guess it's because all of us just enjoy the between-the-tackle O so much.  [Hey, I admit to liking it more this year because of Love - but I also have a sneaking suspicion that he might do some damage if he were given the ball in space, too].



Re: College football in the Bay Area - BostonCard - 10-23-2017

(10-23-2017, 11:24 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:Winning is great and obviously the most important job for a football coach, but the Woody Hayes approach is a risky one.  For the umpteenth time:  The Rose Bowl and Seattle Bowl offenses (both pro-style) should be the model.

Nope, what you are saying is that you personally don't like the offense, but David Shaw is under no obligation to cater to your offensive whims.

BC

Re: College football in the Bay Area - Red State - 10-23-2017

I've witnessed many pretty, crowd-pleasing Stanford offenses over the decades, including Bill Walsh's '93 and '94 teams which moved the ball but were losing teams.

For the record, Stanford's offense is very NFL, more so than any other team in the P12. Their system, playbook, terminology and practices are closely modeled after some of the professional teams where Shaw and Bloomgren have coached and been influenced by such coaches as Jon Gruden and Brian Billick.

Shaw and Bloomgren have been largely successful at making the best use of the offensive personnel that Stanford has, and that they can recruit in the effort to win P12 Championships. Bully Ball is THE only way Stanford is going to continue to reign at or near the top of the conference. Brutally physical, low variance offensive football that shortens the game, scores TDs, and keeps the opposing offense on the sideline.