I think I must be insane - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: I think I must be insane (/thread-14686.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: I think I must be insane (/thread-14686.html)
I think I must be insane - doug - 10-26-2017
I keep watching even though experience shows, to an absolute certainty, that every year Shaw will coach a game -- only one if we're lucky, some years it is two -- that is so horrible to watch that I want to scratch my eyes out after watching the abomination. I resolve not to keep watching, but then I do, so I must be insane.
This was one of the worst, and possibly the very worst, coaching job I have ever seen. Words fail me to express how utterly baffling I find Shaw's stubbornness and self-righteousness. Perhaps he will claim vindication for "staying the course" because Stanford lucked out and avoided a horrific loss. OSU deserved a better fate, and Stanford deserved a worse one. I have been watching Stanford football since 1970 but I don't think I will ever buy another ticket unless I see some change in the coaching approach that gives me any confidence that I won't witness another such dispiriting spectacle.Â
Re: I think I must be insane - OutsiderFan - 10-26-2017
You know you are a fan when watching the games makes you upset.
I knew a West Virginia alum who was a brobdingnagian WVU fan. He told me how upset he gets with their games. I asked him why he watches them if they are so upsetting. He said, are you kidding, the games are way too infuriating to watch!
Re: I think I must be insane - BostonCard - 10-26-2017
I mean, sure. You are right, weve witnessed some gawd awful games in Shaws tenure. But keep in mind that before Harbaugh and Shaw, those games were the rule, not the exception. Seems a tad overboard given that for an average of 9+ games a year we will walk out with a win, and for every game like the one we witnessed, we will see two games like the Rise Bowl against Iowa.
I would of course prefer not to see games like tonight. But I will happily endure them to have a chance at a PAC-12 championship most years.
BC
Re: I think I must be insane - Phogge - 10-26-2017
Durkin has EUTM in his stool. So does the OSU guy. That staff did the most with the least you will see all season long.
Re: I think I must be insane - JeffInCorvallis - 10-26-2017
I went to a couple (only a couple) of games in the W. Harris era. With the exception of a handful of standouts, the teams generally had I-AA (as we called it at the time) talent. We had no chance to win a lot of those games. It was painful to watch. I was genuinely concerned that guys were going get seriously injured, and some did. That's a far cry from having the talent to compete and generally the coaching is pretty good (see Oregon game). I'll take the Shaw era over anything else you can show me, thanks very much.
P.S. Even Dabo Swinney throws down a clunker every once in a while. These are still 18-20 year old kids.
Re: I think I must be insanej - BostonCard - 10-26-2017
And yet, Maryland is 3-4, 1-3 in the BigTen (in front of only woeful indiana) and 13th in espns BigTen power ratings. Before tonight (and this will definitely change), Stanford was at the top of the PAC-12 power ratings, and leading the PAC-12 North. We will see how far EUTM carries Durkin.
BC
Re: I think I must be insane - BostonCard - 10-26-2017
I agree with you Jeff. Once upon a time we had Mike Montgomery as head basketball coach. He wasnt flashy. We won a lot, but always seemed to fall a little short in the NCAA tournament. We lost a couple of games we should have won. Some people on the Bootleg thought he just didnt have what it took to take Stanford to the next level. They lamented the NCAA losses. They thought maybe it was time for some fresh blood.
So one Day Montgomery up and left us to coach the warriors, and we got Trent Johnson, who at the time was viewed as a home run, after he left under murky circumstances, we got Johnny Dawkins. The rest, of course is history.
If Shaw never takes us to the playoffs, Im ok with that. If we continue winning 8+ games a year, Im ok with that. If we occasionally put up stinkers, Im ok with that. Maybe Im settling, but Shaw is just one win from tying Pop Warner as the winningest coach in Stanford history. I think hes the best coach that I have seen at Stanford, warts and all. I am not blind to his limitations... really Im not, but sometimes I find people overly fixated on them, ignoring all that he has accomplished.
Some day, Shaw will be gone. Maybe lured to the NFL... maybe hell retire... maybe Notre Dame will make him an offer he cant refuse. And I bet dollars to doughnuts that the next coach will pale in comparison.
BC
Re: I think I must be insane - teejers1 - 10-26-2017
BC, do you ever consider the state of the roster/program when evaluating coaching performance?
Durkin took over a bad Maryland team.
Wilcox took over a horrible ×ÉÉ program.
Both are doing admirably with the cards they have - it is rather obvious, don't you think? Or do you only measure their abilities by W/L record?
P.S. The one-liners are flying tonight! Phogge, I chuckled out loud on the Durkin/EUTM/stool comment!
Re: I think I must be insane - washingtonismoney - 10-26-2017
(10-26-2017, 10:43 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:BC, do you ever consider the state of the roster/program when evaluating coaching performance?
Durkin took over a bad Maryland team.
Wilcox took over a horrible ×ÉÉ program.
Both are doing admirably with the cards they have - it is rather obvious, don't you think? Or do you only measure their abilities by W/L record?
P.S. The one-liners are flying tonight! Phogge, I chuckled out loud on the Durkin/EUTM/stool comment!
Well, sure. If you want to get into context, that's fine. Then you can consider stuff like historical performance and what have you and come to the conclusion that...Shaw has the highest winning percentage in Stanford history. He consistently outperforms both the spread and the preseason over-unders, set by the money guys in Vegas whose business it is to get this right. Any objective conclusion is that he is, in general, very good at his job.
Then again, the Coen brothers made Ladykillers and Shakespeare wrote Love's Labours Lost. So no one's perfect. The question is whether Shaw will figure out how to adapt and change.
Re: I think I must be insane - BostonCard - 10-26-2017
Who do you think recruited the talent on the roster here? Harbaugh been gone for 7 years.
Wilcox is an improvement over Dykes, and Durkin is probably better than Edsel, but wake me up when they are playing in their third Rose Bowl.
BC
Re: I think I must be insane - teejers1 - 10-26-2017
I know I have the rep as Shaw-hater. But I've repeatedly said I'm glad he is Stanford's head coach and that he has done a very good job overall.
I've also said that Stanford should have won more games under Shaw (despite the good record) and have long-hoped that he would recognize his shortcomings on the O side of the ball and hire a good OC and let him do that job. In other words, I'm not sure how far apart we are on this front - and I suspect a few more folks may agree with me after this evening's game, even if they will not publicly admit it.
That's it.
Re: I think I must be insane - lex24 - 10-26-2017
They get an extra coach next year. Im hoping he brings in a passing game coordinator. Hes not going to change OCs.
(10-26-2017, 10:54 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:I know I have the rep as Shaw-hater. But I've repeatedly said I'm glad he is Stanford's head coach and that he has done a very good job overall.
I've also said that Stanford should have won more games under Shaw (despite the good record) and have long-hoped that he would recognize his shortcomings on the O side of the ball and hire a good OC and let him do that job. In other words, I'm not sure how far apart we are on this front - and I suspect a few more folks may agree with me after this evening's game, even if they will not publicly admit it.
That's it.
Re: I think I must be insane - KartyFan - 10-26-2017
Am I the only one who was exhausted by this game and is happy to count his lucky stars for the win and move on? I'm too tired to debate the last 7 years.
Is there a team in the Pac-12 with fewer offensive "did" games than Stanford? Maybe Oregon?
Re: I think I must be insane - lex24 - 10-26-2017
Seriously? If you have truly been a fan since 70 you witnessed a whole bunch of dispiriting loses. Hell you witnessed a dispiriting decade or two.
Paul Wiggin had John Elway and couldnt get in a bowl game. This stubborn self-righteous coach is two wins away from being Stanfords all-time leading winner. Three Rose Bowls in 6 seasons. 5 10 win seasons out of 6
I agree with all the criticisms levied tonight on Shaw. I get the frustration over his offensive philosophy. Ill buy stubborn. Although I think its also a strength. So yeah, hes far from perfect. But self-righteous. Really?Â
(10-26-2017, 09:51 PM)doug link Wrote:I keep watching even though experience shows, to an absolute certainty, that every year Shaw will coach a game -- only one if we're lucky, some years it is two -- that is so horrible to watch that I want to scratch my eyes out after watching the abomination. I resolve not to keep watching, but then I do, so I must be insane.
This was one of the worst, and possibly the very worst, coaching job I have ever seen. Words fail me to express how utterly baffling I find Shaw's stubbornness and self-righteousness. Perhaps he will claim vindication for "staying the course" because Stanford lucked out and avoided a horrific loss. OSU deserved a better fate, and Stanford deserved a worse one. I have been watching Stanford football since 1970 but I don't think I will ever buy another ticket unless I see some change in the coaching approach that gives me any confidence that I won't witness another such dispiriting spectacle.
Re: I think I must be insane - winflop - 10-27-2017
(10-26-2017, 10:57 PM)lex24 link Wrote:They get an extra coach next year. Im hoping he brings in a passing game coordinator. Hes not going to change OCs.
I hope he brings in a full time OL coach
Re: I think I must be insane - phxfan - 10-27-2017
(10-26-2017, 10:57 PM)lex24 link Wrote:They get an extra coach next year. Im hoping he brings in a passing game coordinator. Hes not going to change OCs.[/quote]
[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=17798.msg208565#msg208565 date=1509083660]
I know I have the rep as Shaw-hater. But I've repeatedly said I'm glad he is Stanford's head coach and that he has done a very good job overall.
I've also said that Stanford should have won more games under Shaw (despite the good record) and have long-hoped that he would recognize his shortcomings on the O side of the ball and hire a good OC and let him do that job. In other words, I'm not sure how far apart we are on this front - and I suspect a few more folks may agree with me after this evening's game, even if they will not publicly admit it.
That's it.
How about he hires an OLine coach? How about he coaches a position group? You know full well what he's done with his offensive assistants is criminal.
Re: I think I must be insane - phxfan - 10-27-2017
(10-26-2017, 11:08 PM)lex24 link Wrote:Seriously? If you have truly been a fan since 70 you witnessed a whole bunch of dispiriting loses. Hell you witnessed a dispiriting decade or two.[/quote]
Paul Wiggin had John Elway and couldnt get in a bowl game. This stubborn self-righteous coach is two wins away from being Stanfords all-time leading winner. Three Rose Bowls in 6 seasons. 5 10 win seasons out of 6
I agree with all the criticisms levied tonight on Shaw. I get the frustration over his offensive philosophy. Ill buy stubborn. Although I think its also a strength. So yeah, hes far from perfect. But self-righteous. Really?Â
[quote author=doug link=topic=17798.msg208497#msg208497 date=1509079915]
I keep watching even though experience shows, to an absolute certainty, that every year Shaw will coach a game -- only one if we're lucky, some years it is two -- that is so horrible to watch that I want to scratch my eyes out after watching the abomination. I resolve not to keep watching, but then I do, so I must be insane.
This was one of the worst, and possibly the very worst, coaching job I have ever seen. Words fail me to express how utterly baffling I find Shaw's stubbornness and self-righteousness. Perhaps he will claim vindication for "staying the course" because Stanford lucked out and avoided a horrific loss. OSU deserved a better fate, and Stanford deserved a worse one. I have been watching Stanford football since 1970 but I don't think I will ever buy another ticket unless I see some change in the coaching approach that gives me any confidence that I won't witness another such dispiriting spectacle.
How'd that work out for Wiggin, Lex?
Re: I think I must be insane - oman - 10-27-2017
(10-26-2017, 09:55 PM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:You know you are a fan when watching the games makes you upset.
I knew a West Virginia alum who was a of exceedingly large proportions WVU fan. He told me how upset he gets with their games. I asked him why he watches them if they are so upsetting. He said, are you kidding, the games are way too infuriating to watch!
If you ever get a chance, read "The Miracle of Castel di Sangro". If you can't do that, read the intro where the author meets an Italian soccer fan, and that evening, at home, watching the game, the fan just goes through various stages of agony watching his team. Great illustration of our compulsion to keep watching.