WBB: UConn 78 Stanford 53 - Printable Version
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WBB: UConn 78 Stanford 53 - 81alum - 11-11-2017
Preliminary:
Fresh off our disappointing but informative loss to TOSU, we get to send our youngsters off to meet the nation's top team on a neutral court. UConn will be playing its first official game since losing to Mississippii State in the final four last spring--although they humiliated Ashland 119-56--even more than TOSU did--in an exhibition. They have starters Nurse, Williams, Samuelson, and Collier back plus assorted stellar reinforcements. A couple of interesting question are: 1) how will Vanderveer coach this game to make it a constructive learning experience as opposed to a psychological drubbing, and 2) will we learn more about who is emerging as members of our final rotation? Will Johnson or Romano or Wilson or Williams get more time than they did against TOSU? If they do, how will they acquit themselves? Will Jerome get a large chunk of time as she did against TOSU? Is she emerging? Presuming that Dodson gets a lot of time, how will she do against the very best?Â
I predict the UConn defense will be far superior to TOSU and this will be an acid test of our new offense. We won't be getting many fast break points on them. Can Vanderveer find anything in the half court that we can count on?
Overview of the Game:
A tale of two halves. Our team was not prepared for the UConn defense and played a dreadful first half, rife with turnovers and nervous, awkward shots as we stumbled to a 49-14 drubbing. Vanderveer got them calmed down for the second half and Carrington emerged as a terrific offensive force. We actually won the third quarter 19-18 against decent competition. Geno actually showed mercy and put in his bench for the fourth quarter, which we won 20-11.Â
Flow of the Game:
The first half was horrible--reminiscent of a few other horrors that UConn and Arizona State and Oregon State have occasionally inflicted on us in which we score fewer than 20 in the first half of a game. It was clear that our young players were rattled by the UConn defense and hardly knew what to do. We committed 15 turnovers in the first half--many of them as we were attempting to pass on the perimeter. The length and quickness of the UConn defenders was very disruptive, and led to a number of fast breaks for them. UConn did give us some open three point looks and we clanked most of them, shooting too strong.Â
The second half went much better--we actually "won" each quarter, and while Geno was uncharacteristically humane and put in his bench in the fourth quarter, we were competitive even against his first stringers in the 3rd. What made the difference? Several things. We cut way back on the turnovers--7 in the second half. Our rebounding continued to be quite good--we outrebounded UConn in both halves. And Carrington emerged as an offensive force who could score from both three point range as well as driving on the basket.Â
Other noteworthy developments. Sniezek finally took and made a trey after passing up open shots in the first half. Kiana Williams played point for long stretches in the second half. She had no assists but perhaps more important had no turnovers. While she wound up 2/9 she showed flashes of offense and steadiness that bode well for the future.Â
Performances:
As a team, we shot 18% in the first half and 48% in the second half, including 38% of our treys in the second half. We had 2 points off turnovers and 0 second chance points for the game. UConn had 32 points off turnovers and 9 second chance points. We had 22 turnovers and UConn had 7. That is pretty much all you need to know to understand the reasons behind the loss.
Now, for individuals, I think the minutes played probably is a better indicator of where Vanderveer thinks her team is "at" than the official "starting" roles.
32 minutes: McPhee. She was the focus of UConn defense, and wound up with 9 points. Her achilles is still her three point shot--she was 1/5.
26 minutes: Williams. After not getting so much time against TOSU, I think Tara wanted to see what she could do. She is a ways away from being a complete point guard--we need to see her develop some really good passing--she took the shot herself once or twice when she should not have. But she never turned the ball over, took 9 shots, made her free throws, and grabbed 5 rebounds. Not bad against that competition.
25 minutes: Smith. She came close to a double double, with 8 points on 4/8 shooting and 10 rebounds. A solid effort.
25 minutes: Carrington. The star of the day. She scored 21 points on 8/15 shooting, and 3/8 from three point range. She also snagged 7 rebounds, an assist and a steal, although she had 3 turnovers. We have to figure out how to get her and McPhee on the floor at the same time.
22 minutes: Jerome. This was the surprise starter, replacing Romano, and she got quite a lot of time. She was only 1/5 with three turnovers. I was not following her defense.Â
17 minutes: Dodson. Had a quiet day. No points, 3 rebounds, 2 turnovers.
13 minutes: Sniezek. Well, the fact that the starting point guard was in for less than half the time against UConn probably tells us that Tara is seriously considering her options. 3 assists, 2 turnovers, and 1/1 on shooting--after passing up many open shots. The commentators once again commented on how having her on the floor changes the spacing of the defense.
12 minutes: Johnson. Apparently she gave the team some important senior leadership at the half. Johnson had 2 fouls and 2 turnovers and 4 misses in her 12 minutes of play.
Conclusion:
After this weekend, I think we have a picture of where this team needs to go by the time we get to Pac 12 play, but it will take some time to get these players ready:
5 Dodson frosh / Johnson?
4 Smith junior / Jerome?
3 McPhee senior /Jerome?
2 Carrington soph
1 Williams frosh / Sniezek?
with Sniezek and Jerome as part of the regular rotation. These freshmen and sophomores need a lot of playing time to jell as a team and they should be getting it in November and December. Something is "off" with Johnson and it does not seem that she will return to her freshman rebounding form nor develop the offense we need from that position. Sniezek has her strengths but I think she is going to be in a season long competition with Williams since her offensive liabilities are so clear. Fingall had 8 starts last year and a summer to improve, so she is not going to get a lot better than she is right now. Moschkau and Wilson might emerge during the season--I expect they will each get some chances against weaker competition. Smith and McPhee have shown a tendency to be streaky, so these youngsters might get opportunities on those nights when the big two are not producing.
WBB: UConn 78 Stanford 53 - 81alum - 11-11-2017
Preliminary:
Fresh off our disappointing but informative loss to TOSU, we get to send our youngsters off to meet the nation's top team on a neutral court. UConn will be playing its first official game since losing to Mississippii State in the final four last spring--although they humiliated Ashland 119-56--even more than TOSU did--in an exhibition. They have starters Nurse, Williams, Samuelson, and Collier back plus assorted stellar reinforcements. A couple of interesting question are: 1) how will Vanderveer coach this game to make it a constructive learning experience as opposed to a psychological drubbing, and 2) will we learn more about who is emerging as members of our final rotation? Will Johnson or Romano or Wilson or Williams get more time than they did against TOSU? If they do, how will they acquit themselves? Will Jerome get a large chunk of time as she did against TOSU? Is she emerging? Presuming that Dodson gets a lot of time, how will she do against the very best?Â
I predict the UConn defense will be far superior to TOSU and this will be an acid test of our new offense. We won't be getting many fast break points on them. Can Vanderveer find anything in the half court that we can count on?
Overview of the Game:
A tale of two halves. Our team was not prepared for the UConn defense and played a dreadful first half, rife with turnovers and nervous, awkward shots as we stumbled to a 49-14 drubbing. Vanderveer got them calmed down for the second half and Carrington emerged as a terrific offensive force. We actually won the third quarter 19-18 against decent competition. Geno actually showed mercy and put in his bench for the fourth quarter, which we won 20-11.Â
Flow of the Game:
The first half was horrible--reminiscent of a few other horrors that UConn and Arizona State and Oregon State have occasionally inflicted on us in which we score fewer than 20 in the first half of a game. It was clear that our young players were rattled by the UConn defense and hardly knew what to do. We committed 15 turnovers in the first half--many of them as we were attempting to pass on the perimeter. The length and quickness of the UConn defenders was very disruptive, and led to a number of fast breaks for them. UConn did give us some open three point looks and we clanked most of them, shooting too strong.Â
The second half went much better--we actually "won" each quarter, and while Geno was uncharacteristically humane and put in his bench in the fourth quarter, we were competitive even against his first stringers in the 3rd. What made the difference? Several things. We cut way back on the turnovers--7 in the second half. Our rebounding continued to be quite good--we outrebounded UConn in both halves. And Carrington emerged as an offensive force who could score from both three point range as well as driving on the basket.Â
Other noteworthy developments. Sniezek finally took and made a trey after passing up open shots in the first half. Kiana Williams played point for long stretches in the second half. She had no assists but perhaps more important had no turnovers. While she wound up 2/9 she showed flashes of offense and steadiness that bode well for the future.Â
Performances:
As a team, we shot 18% in the first half and 48% in the second half, including 38% of our treys in the second half. We had 2 points off turnovers and 0 second chance points for the game. UConn had 32 points off turnovers and 9 second chance points. We had 22 turnovers and UConn had 7. That is pretty much all you need to know to understand the reasons behind the loss.
Now, for individuals, I think the minutes played probably is a better indicator of where Vanderveer thinks her team is "at" than the official "starting" roles.
32 minutes: McPhee. She was the focus of UConn defense, and wound up with 9 points. Her achilles is still her three point shot--she was 1/5.
26 minutes: Williams. After not getting so much time against TOSU, I think Tara wanted to see what she could do. She is a ways away from being a complete point guard--we need to see her develop some really good passing--she took the shot herself once or twice when she should not have. But she never turned the ball over, took 9 shots, made her free throws, and grabbed 5 rebounds. Not bad against that competition.
25 minutes: Smith. She came close to a double double, with 8 points on 4/8 shooting and 10 rebounds. A solid effort.
25 minutes: Carrington. The star of the day. She scored 21 points on 8/15 shooting, and 3/8 from three point range. She also snagged 7 rebounds, an assist and a steal, although she had 3 turnovers. We have to figure out how to get her and McPhee on the floor at the same time.
22 minutes: Jerome. This was the surprise starter, replacing Romano, and she got quite a lot of time. She was only 1/5 with three turnovers. I was not following her defense.Â
17 minutes: Dodson. Had a quiet day. No points, 3 rebounds, 2 turnovers.
13 minutes: Sniezek. Well, the fact that the starting point guard was in for less than half the time against UConn probably tells us that Tara is seriously considering her options. 3 assists, 2 turnovers, and 1/1 on shooting--after passing up many open shots. The commentators once again commented on how having her on the floor changes the spacing of the defense.
12 minutes: Johnson. Apparently she gave the team some important senior leadership at the half. Johnson had 2 fouls and 2 turnovers and 4 misses in her 12 minutes of play.
Conclusion:
After this weekend, I think we have a picture of where this team needs to go by the time we get to Pac 12 play, but it will take some time to get these players ready:
5 Dodson frosh / Johnson?
4 Smith junior / Jerome?
3 McPhee senior /Jerome?
2 Carrington soph
1 Williams frosh / Sniezek?
with Sniezek and Jerome as part of the regular rotation. These freshmen and sophomores need a lot of playing time to jell as a team and they should be getting it in November and December. Something is "off" with Johnson and it does not seem that she will return to her freshman rebounding form nor develop the offense we need from that position. Sniezek has her strengths but I think she is going to be in a season long competition with Williams since her offensive liabilities are so clear. Fingall had 8 starts last year and a summer to improve, so she is not going to get a lot better than she is right now. Moschkau and Wilson might emerge during the season--I expect they will each get some chances against weaker competition. Smith and McPhee have shown a tendency to be streaky, so these youngsters might get opportunities on those nights when the big two are not producing.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-11-2017
The fans over at the Boneyard have often been remarkably respectful of Tara Vanderveer. But even they are mystified at what happened to us against TOSU. Here are a few of their comments:
Quote:Ill give Stanford credit for jumping into the deep end of the pool to start the season, particularly since they did not have to agree to a game with UConn, but I must confess that I was surprised how badly Stanford collapsed in the 2nd half vs tOSU.
Quote:Based on what we saw last night, UConn should absolutely demolish Stanford on Sunday......but I am still a bit wary about this game.. Tara has been one of the most successful coaches to ever face UConn and she usually makes the adjustments to her game plan to make it a tough go regardless of the talent deficit......I would say UConn by 12 although if Stanford is really as bad as they looked against Ohio State the game may just get out of hand
Quote:I would generally agree with your assessment of Tara and Stanfords ability to adjust, but I was struck by two things from the tOSU game. The Cardinal, who are always a sound defensive team, gave up 85 pts and they were outrebounded by -23. That tells me that the graduation of Roberson & McCall are significant losses relative to defense and rebounding that may be very difficult for Stanford to address anytime soon.
https://the-boneyard.com/threads/has-stanford.119097/
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-11-2017
The fans over at the Boneyard have often been remarkably respectful of Tara Vanderveer. But even they are mystified at what happened to us against TOSU. Here are a few of their comments:
Quote:Ill give Stanford credit for jumping into the deep end of the pool to start the season, particularly since they did not have to agree to a game with UConn, but I must confess that I was surprised how badly Stanford collapsed in the 2nd half vs tOSU.
Quote:Based on what we saw last night, UConn should absolutely demolish Stanford on Sunday......but I am still a bit wary about this game.. Tara has been one of the most successful coaches to ever face UConn and she usually makes the adjustments to her game plan to make it a tough go regardless of the talent deficit......I would say UConn by 12 although if Stanford is really as bad as they looked against Ohio State the game may just get out of hand
Quote:I would generally agree with your assessment of Tara and Stanfords ability to adjust, but I was struck by two things from the tOSU game. The Cardinal, who are always a sound defensive team, gave up 85 pts and they were outrebounded by -23. That tells me that the graduation of Roberson & McCall are significant losses relative to defense and rebounding that may be very difficult for Stanford to address anytime soon.
https://the-boneyard.com/threads/has-stanford.119097/
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - JJJ - 11-11-2017
Thank you for the heads-up. Setting the DVR now.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - JJJ - 11-11-2017
Thank you for the heads-up. Setting the DVR now.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-11-2017
Preview from the UConn perspective.
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-womens-basketball/hc-sp-uconn-women-1112-story.html
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-11-2017
Preview from the UConn perspective.
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-womens-basketball/hc-sp-uconn-women-1112-story.html
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - TheFarm07 - 11-11-2017
Our worst losses (by score) to a non-UConn opponent in the last few years:
21 - (60-81 to N.D. (Sweet 16) on March 27, 2015)
21 - (64-85 to Ohio State on Nov. 10, 2017)
20 - (36-56 to UCLA on Jan. 24, 2016)
20 - (71-91 to DePaul on Dec. 16, 2010)
19 - (40-59 to Tennessee on Dec. 20, 2014)
18 - (31-49 to ASU on Jan. 4, 2016)
16 - (54-70 to UNC on Nov. 28, 2014)
12 - (55-67 to C.al on Jan. 13, 2012)
12 - (47-59 to Baylor (national semis) on Apr. 1, 2012)
Despite these lopsided losses, we still had very successful seasons during those years. Especially since it was the first game of the season with new starters and against a top rated opponent, I am not concerned (yet) in the long term.
In the short term, I would be happy if we can keep it within 20-25 tomorrow.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - TheFarm07 - 11-11-2017
Our worst losses (by score) to a non-UConn opponent in the last few years:
21 - (60-81 to N.D. (Sweet 16) on March 27, 2015)
21 - (64-85 to Ohio State on Nov. 10, 2017)
20 - (36-56 to UCLA on Jan. 24, 2016)
20 - (71-91 to DePaul on Dec. 16, 2010)
19 - (40-59 to Tennessee on Dec. 20, 2014)
18 - (31-49 to ASU on Jan. 4, 2016)
16 - (54-70 to UNC on Nov. 28, 2014)
12 - (55-67 to C.al on Jan. 13, 2012)
12 - (47-59 to Baylor (national semis) on Apr. 1, 2012)
Despite these lopsided losses, we still had very successful seasons during those years. Especially since it was the first game of the season with new starters and against a top rated opponent, I am not concerned (yet) in the long term.
In the short term, I would be happy if we can keep it within 20-25 tomorrow.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-11-2017
The one I remember, most dreadfully, was when UConn came to Maples in December 2012 and beat us 61-35. We shot 19%. There was absolutely nothing constructive or good about that loss.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-11-2017
The one I remember, most dreadfully, was when UConn came to Maples in December 2012 and beat us 61-35. We shot 19%. There was absolutely nothing constructive or good about that loss.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-12-2017
Alanna getting some national recognition as a nominee for the first ever Leslie award for the nation's best center.
http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/11/9/womens-basketball-smith-up-for-leslie-award.aspx
She will be going up against 6'6" Azura Stevens, another nominee, when we play UConn today.Â
Other nominees from the Pac12 are Marie Gulich from Oregon State, Monique Billings from UC LA, Kristen Simon from U SC, and Emily Potter from Utah.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction between centers and other forwards, I guess. Why is Kristine Anigwe not on the list? And is Smith playing the 5 or the 4 for us? But regardless, nice to see people taking notice of her--I think her outstanding play in the run to the final 4 last spring opened up some eyes.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-12-2017
Alanna getting some national recognition as a nominee for the first ever Leslie award for the nation's best center.
http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/11/9/womens-basketball-smith-up-for-leslie-award.aspx
She will be going up against 6'6" Azura Stevens, another nominee, when we play UConn today.Â
Other nominees from the Pac12 are Marie Gulich from Oregon State, Monique Billings from UC LA, Kristen Simon from U SC, and Emily Potter from Utah.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction between centers and other forwards, I guess. Why is Kristine Anigwe not on the list? And is Smith playing the 5 or the 4 for us? But regardless, nice to see people taking notice of her--I think her outstanding play in the run to the final 4 last spring opened up some eyes.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 2006alum - 11-12-2017
(11-12-2017, 07:45 AM)81alum link Wrote:Alanna getting some national recognition as a nominee for the first ever Leslie award for the nation's best center.
... I'm not sure I understand the distinction between centers and other forwards, I guess. Why is Kristine Anigwe not on the list? And is Smith playing the 5 or the 4 for us? But regardless, nice to see people taking notice of her--I think her outstanding play in the run to the final 4 last spring opened up some eyes.
I share both your excitement for Alanna and confusion as to what a center is. I think of Alanna as being more of a 3/4 than anything close to a center, given her penchant for treys and full court mobility. I'm not sure I'd have even called Bird a center, and she certainly played the 5 more than Alanna does. Maybe part of the difference is that women's bball doesn't have as much height variation between the 4s and 5s as men's basketball? It's hard to call a 7'0" player anything other than a center.
I poked around the web and liked this definition of the distinction, at least as applied to the NBA: "Centers now do all the dirty work, as post-Shaq they had to battle with players like him. These guys are the Dale Davis, Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah players that can't shoot and only score off of others, but can defend, rebound, and do all the intangible things that make a team tick. This use to be the role of the power forwards."
To that end, I feel like the only true centers we've had on our team over the last decade have been Shannon Coffee, Tess Picknell, Sarah Boothe, Mikaela Ruef (sort of), and, to some degree, Jayne Appel (the classic play for Jane was to feed to her for a back-to-the-basket play or a layup in transition with her already near the basket). Other than Jayne, none of the others have had much impact or playing time. Even Nneka and Chiney played more like power forwards than centers, given their athleticism and speed, and the fact that since they overlapped, they couldn't both just post up at the same time.
Interestingly, if Johnson had more bulk, I think she could be a solid true center. She has (or at least has had) excellent rebounding and pretty solid defense beneath the basket. If she had a bit more of a back to the basket shot, she'd be a solid 5.
In the end, it may just be the case that women's college basketball at present does not actually have 20 exceptional true centers, so tall players who post up end up in consideration as well.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 2006alum - 11-12-2017
(11-12-2017, 07:45 AM)81alum link Wrote:Alanna getting some national recognition as a nominee for the first ever Leslie award for the nation's best center.
... I'm not sure I understand the distinction between centers and other forwards, I guess. Why is Kristine Anigwe not on the list? And is Smith playing the 5 or the 4 for us? But regardless, nice to see people taking notice of her--I think her outstanding play in the run to the final 4 last spring opened up some eyes.
I share both your excitement for Alanna and confusion as to what a center is. I think of Alanna as being more of a 3/4 than anything close to a center, given her penchant for treys and full court mobility. I'm not sure I'd have even called Bird a center, and she certainly played the 5 more than Alanna does. Maybe part of the difference is that women's bball doesn't have as much height variation between the 4s and 5s as men's basketball? It's hard to call a 7'0" player anything other than a center.
I poked around the web and liked this definition of the distinction, at least as applied to the NBA: "Centers now do all the dirty work, as post-Shaq they had to battle with players like him. These guys are the Dale Davis, Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah players that can't shoot and only score off of others, but can defend, rebound, and do all the intangible things that make a team tick. This use to be the role of the power forwards."
To that end, I feel like the only true centers we've had on our team over the last decade have been Shannon Coffee, Tess Picknell, Sarah Boothe, Mikaela Ruef (sort of), and, to some degree, Jayne Appel (the classic play for Jane was to feed to her for a back-to-the-basket play or a layup in transition with her already near the basket). Other than Jayne, none of the others have had much impact or playing time. Even Nneka and Chiney played more like power forwards than centers, given their athleticism and speed, and the fact that since they overlapped, they couldn't both just post up at the same time.
Interestingly, if Johnson had more bulk, I think she could be a solid true center. She has (or at least has had) excellent rebounding and pretty solid defense beneath the basket. If she had a bit more of a back to the basket shot, she'd be a solid 5.
In the end, it may just be the case that women's college basketball at present does not actually have 20 exceptional true centers, so tall players who post up end up in consideration as well.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-12-2017
Well, they are probably warming up now. I'm not sure if I am looking forward to watching this game or not. I think if I have the right frame of mind--I'm looking for improvement and signs of Vanderveer's strategy in developing the team--and don't focus on the score, perhaps it will be tolerable.
I do hope we are not embarrassed. UConn likes to do that--leaving starters in and not letting up, wracking up bigger margins than it needs to. One of the reasons I detest Geno--he's a sore winner. Wouldn't it be nice if our youngsters came out and made the game competitive. I'd count it a success if we can keep it within single digits into the 4th quarter. But that will take more skill, determination, and luck than we have seen for a while.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - 81alum - 11-12-2017
Well, they are probably warming up now. I'm not sure if I am looking forward to watching this game or not. I think if I have the right frame of mind--I'm looking for improvement and signs of Vanderveer's strategy in developing the team--and don't focus on the score, perhaps it will be tolerable.
I do hope we are not embarrassed. UConn likes to do that--leaving starters in and not letting up, wracking up bigger margins than it needs to. One of the reasons I detest Geno--he's a sore winner. Wouldn't it be nice if our youngsters came out and made the game competitive. I'd count it a success if we can keep it within single digits into the 4th quarter. But that will take more skill, determination, and luck than we have seen for a while.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - mbdude - 11-12-2017
it will be a tough test for Alanna - whatever position she is - and the other bigs. UConn has some big, versatile, mobile bigs. Collier, Williams, Stevens, KLou, etc
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. UConn Sunday 1030 am pacific - mbdude - 11-12-2017
it will be a tough test for Alanna - whatever position she is - and the other bigs. UConn has some big, versatile, mobile bigs. Collier, Williams, Stevens, KLou, etc