The State of the Pac-12 - Printable Version
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The State of the Pac-12 - Austroturf - 09-16-2018
Week 3 proved to be disastrous for the Pac-12 and certainly did nothing to shore up the conference’s reputation among Power 5 conferences.
USC laid a brobdingnagian egg against the Longhorns, thereby diminishing Stanford’s victory over the Trojans in week 2. These were the same Longhorns that lost to Maryland in the first week; and just when Maryland was looking like a much-improved program after their 2-0 start, they got rolled by the 1-2 Temple Owls.
ASU’s loss to SDSU certainly doesn’t hurt us, but it doesn’t help the Pac-12 in any way. After just climbing into the Top 25, the Sun Devils will now disappear from the polls. Maybe the Aztecs will take their place.
UCLA is a hot mess: the Bruins were thoroughly dominated by Tedford’s Bulldogs in the Rose Bowl and showed just how far this program has to go before it is competitive again. As a side note: the LA schools are a collective 1-5 in the first three weeks.
Oregon State made it three wins for the MWC against the Pac-12 by falling short against Nevada.
Yes, Arizona, Colorado, UCB and Oregon all won easy games against overmatched opponents; but even Oregon did not dominate SJSU as many had expected (including me). Probably the best win of the weekend was Wazzu’s decisive victory over Eastern Washington, which is a quality FCS program (#5 in the FCS rankings) that has given the Cougs fits before. And the Golden Bears got a boost to their resume through BYU’s upset over Wisconsin. In fact, they will probably enter the AP poll this week for the first time in a very long time. Colorado is also 3-0, but will most likely not be ranked, as their victory over Nebraska lost a lot of its luster after the Cornhuskers’ loss at home to Troy from the Sun Belt conference – the same Troy that was blasted by Boise State in week 1.
Washington scored a sloppy win over an offensively inept Utah, but saw its playoff fortunes take a dent as Auburn got pipped by LSU on a last second FG.
Honorary Pac-12 member Notre Dame just barely survived at home against Vandy.
O, and Stanford won in unspectacular fashion over an FCS program.
After three weeks, Stanford and Washington still look like the best in the Pac-12, but that may not be saying a whole lot. The Bears and the Cougs look better than expected. USC and UCLA look lost, while Oregon might be able to surprise. Any other thoughts at this stage of the season? I am worried about the state of football in the “Conference of Champions”.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - OutsiderFan - 09-16-2018
Preach on. My post on this topic hit on same points. I left out many pieces of evidence that the conference stinks, to instead shift discussion to accountability.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - CrazedZooChimp - 09-16-2018
Plus side: BYU just beat #6 Wisconsin. Cal beat BYU, Arizona lost a close game to them, and UW and Utah still play them.
And no one in our conference lost to Kansas this week.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - Austroturf - 09-16-2018
(09-16-2018, 09:43 AM)CrazedZooChimp Wrote: Plus side: BYU just beat #6 Wisconsin. Cal beat BYU, Arizona lost a close game to them, and UW and Utah still play them.
And no one in our conference lost to Kansas this week.
Good points. And Kansas actually looks pretty good this year: they are 2-1 and boast victories over CMU and Rutgers.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - BostonCard - 09-16-2018
Sagarin rates the Pac-12 North as the third best division in NCAA (behind the SEC West and Big Ten East, though basically tied with the Big12). On the other hand, the Pac-12 South is the second worst division (ahead of only the Big Ten West). Basically, in terms of conference quality, there is the SEC, and there is everyone else.
BC
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - Spiny_Norman - 09-16-2018
4 of the 6 teams in the P12 North are undefeated (Stanford, Cal, WSU, Oregon). Washington is 2-1 with the loss to Auburn. Oregon State brings up the rear at 1-2. I can understand this as the 3rd strongest division about the Power 5 conferences.
The P12 South however is a mess right now.
Yet, the conference champion still goes to the Rose Bowl at worst. Someone is going to get the "tangible evidence of success" regardless of the strength of the conference. Might as well be Stanford.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - Austroturf - 09-16-2018
(09-16-2018, 01:38 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Sagarin rates the Pac-12 North as the third best division in NCAA (behind the SEC West and Big Ten East, though basically tied with the Big12). On the other hand, the Pac-12 South is the second worst division (ahead of only the Big Ten West). Basically, in terms of conference quality, there is the SEC, and there is everyone else.
BC
Yes, there is a clear north-south divide. The three Pac-12 teams still in the top 25 all hail from the north. That said, USC is still viewed as the traditional face of the Pac-12 (champion last year and historical power); and their current sad form costs the conference a lot of credibility. Add UCLA's nosedive to the mix, and the largest Pac-12 market (LA) is a sinkhole of failure three games into the season. All is not lost, of course, but the conference needs some signature wins going forward.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - winflop - 09-16-2018
Let's where things stand after 5 or 6 games. Too small a sample size to draw big conclusions at this point
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - muiron - 09-16-2018
(09-16-2018, 08:44 PM)winflop Wrote: Let's where things stand after 5 or 6 games. Too small a sample size to draw big conclusions at this point
Except that there are very few non-conference games left for the Pac-12 to look good versus other leagues - Stanford and SC v Notre Dame and a couple of BYU games. More? (At least those are against recognized teams.)
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - CTcard - 09-16-2018
(09-16-2018, 08:53 PM)muiron Wrote:(09-16-2018, 08:44 PM)winflop Wrote: Let's where things stand after 5 or 6 games. Too small a sample size to draw big conclusions at this point
Except that there are very few non-conference games left for the Pac-12 to look good versus other leagues - Stanford and SC v Notre Dame and a couple of BYU games. More? (At least those are against recognized teams.)
Right now, in inter-Power5-conference games, the respective conference records are:
ACC: 3-5
Big 12: 4-6
Big Ten: 6-5
Pac 12: 3-4
SEC: 6-2
If you wish to include und in the Power 5, then the Big Ten goes to 6-6 and the SEC to 6-3.
--------------
In 2017, pre-bowl season (roughly where we are now in the 2018 season), the records were:
ACC: 4-12
Big 12: 4-6
Big Ten: 7-5
Pac 12: 6-2
SEC: 6-9
In addition, und went 1-1 vs Pac 12, 4-1 vs ACC, 0-1 vs SEC, 1-0 vs Big Ten, 0-0 vs Big 12 [or invert those to add to conference records above].
From all of this I conclude … not much of anything, except perhaps that inter Power 5 games are so rare and the matchups random that the results appear to be pretty much noise.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - Renaissance Man - 09-17-2018
(09-16-2018, 09:26 PM)CTcard Wrote:(09-16-2018, 08:53 PM)muiron Wrote:(09-16-2018, 08:44 PM)winflop Wrote: Let's where things stand after 5 or 6 games. Too small a sample size to draw big conclusions at this point
Except that there are very few non-conference games left for the Pac-12 to look good versus other leagues - Stanford and SC v Notre Dame and a couple of BYU games. More? (At least those are against recognized teams.)
Right now, in inter-Power5-conference games, the respective conference records are:
ACC: 3-5
Big 12: 4-6
Big Ten: 6-5
Pac 12: 3-4
SEC: 6-2
If you wish to include und in the Power 5, then the Big Ten goes to 6-6 and the SEC to 6-3.
--------------
In 2017, pre-bowl season (roughly where we are now in the 2018 season), the records were:
ACC: 4-12
Big 12: 4-6
Big Ten: 7-5
Pac 12: 6-2
SEC: 6-9
In addition, und went 1-1 vs Pac 12, 4-1 vs ACC, 0-1 vs SEC, 1-0 vs Big Ten, 0-0 vs Big 12 [or invert those to add to conference records above].
From all of this I conclude … not much of anything, except perhaps that inter Power 5 games are so rare and the matchups random that the results appear to be pretty much noise.
One conclusion that can be drawn is that other conferences have a large number of OOC games left, in comparison to the Pac-12, especially the SEC and ACC, who will be playing a lot of strategically placed cupcakes.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - CTcard - 09-17-2018
(09-17-2018, 09:19 AM)mholliday Wrote: One conclusion that can be drawn is that other conferences have a large number of OOC games left, in comparison to the Pac-12, especially the SEC and ACC, who will be playing a lot of strategically placed cupcakes.
Both the ACC and SEc play more OOC games overall, because both play only 8 conference games and thus 4 OOC games. [Also both are 14 team leagues.]
If both play conferences play the same number of Power 5 OOC games as last year, the SEC has 7 left and the ACC 8.
There are also several ACC-SEC interconference rivalry games that take place towards the end of the season.
UF plays FSU 11/24
Ga Tech plays UGa 11/24
Clemson plays SCar 11/24
Louisville plays Kentucky 11/24
The SEC seems to arrange for late season OOC cupcakes more than the ACC.
And the ACC has several und games left, as und is now in some nominal sense part of the ACC.
RE: The State of the Pac-12 - StanfordMatt - 09-17-2018
Since the introduction of the BCS in 1998, Stanford's postseason fate has never been negatively impacted by its strength of schedule or any weakness, real or perceived, of the PAC-10/12. I have never seen any compelling argument advanced regarding why a fan of Stanford football should root for other conference members in games against non-conference opponents. To the contrary, PAC-12 teams beating non-conference opponents merely serves to strengthen their respective programs, making them a tougher opponent for Stanford both on the field and on the recruiting trail. Tougher opponents translate to reduced chances of winning. I will never tell another fan who s/he should or shouldn't root for, but when Arizona played Southern Utah last week, you better believe I was cheering for the Thunderbirds.