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WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - 81alum - 11-12-2018
Preview:
Last year San Francisco--coached by former Stanford great Molly Goodenbour--gave us a tough time, leading by 4 at the half. You can see my write-up and thread here:
https://thecardboard.org/board/showthread.php?tid=15096
I think you can already feel the change in our team just by reading that year old thread and comparing it to the transformation we are witnessing with this year's team.
USF was 21-11 and won their conference tournament last year, but for better or worse, this is not the same team we played a year ago. USF has only 5 players returning. Molly has brought in 8 new players--7 of them international--one of them is starting and many of them are getting a lot of minutes. (Total of 9 international players: Finland, Croatia x 3, Latvia, Denmark, Australia, Sweden, Poland.) All that said, this year's USF is a decent team, having beaten Chico in an exhibition and dominating SJSU in their first game. Their win over SJSU showed 5 players in double figures and one guard hitting 4/6 treys.
Overview:
USF surprised us by mainly playing man defense, but we made 15/32 treys. Alanna and Lacie combined to make 4 in a row at the start of the fourth quarter to ice the game.
Flow of the game:
We began by making our first five shots in a row--four of them treys--before our first miss, and led the rest of the game. The game was not as easy as that might make it seem, however. After that first stretch and a 14-4 lead USF figured out how to defend and our shooting cooled off. By halftime we had a 43-31 twelve point lead. In the third quarter USF immediately made a trey and the lead was then down to 9--not the blow out domination we had dished out in the previous two wins.
USF spread it around and had 4 players in double digits. It seemed to me that we had problems defending their surprisingly speedy little guard--after 33 Shannon Powell got going Tara sent DiJonai back in to defend her--more successfully.
Offensively, Kiana was the sparkplug in the third quarter that got us going again. This was a little worrying because she had limped off the court and gone to the locker room earlier, before coming back in. And she limped off a couple more times before she was done for the night. I'm not sure if she reaggravated whatever injury she had in the Davis game, but the limp didn't stop her from being the star of the third quarter.
In the fourth we opened up with the 4 scores described in the overview led by Alanna, and then a lot of bench players got time. I was particularly pleased to see Mikaela Brewer hit a basket and a couple of free throws, and Estella Moschkau drain a three before the end.
Performances:
Kianna led the way despite her limp, with 21 points on 4/6 three point shooting, in 25 minutes. Her makes were pretty much all net, stroked with confidence. She is shooting 61% from three point range on the season so far. She also had 3 assists to 2 turnovers.
Alanna had 18 points in 26 minutes, with 5/8 three point shooting. She rarely got in around the basket, but after she hit 3 treys in a row it didn't seem necessary. She definitely was the stretch 4 tonight. She also had 3 assists and 4 blocks and 7 rebounds.
Maya had 10 points in 19 minutes, on 4/7 shooting. She started slow, missing a couple of disjointed shots, but finished well. Unfortunately she was only 2/5 from the line, but she had 6! assists and 4 blocks to round out an excellent stat line. She looks like a different player to me this year--much more confident and finishing much better than a year ago. Best of all, she kept her fouls down to 2.
DiJonai had 9 points in 18 minutes--which may have been her best offensive game this year so far--she seems to have started the season somewhat slowly. But it is pretty clear that she is our best perimeter defender with Marta out, and Tara put her on USF's hottest guard. She had 5 rebounds, a couple of them most impressive as she outjumped taller players for the ball. Add in 4 assists and it was a good night's work for her.
Nadia had 6 points in 12 minutes. I thought she played reasonably well but she did pick up 3 fouls.
Lacie outscored Lexie tonight, going 2/4 from downtown in 13 minutes of play. Lexie played 25 minutes with 5 points on 1/5 shooting. She filled out a nice stat line with 5 rebounds, 2 assists, and 2 steals. Those steals are indicative of her hustle--both she and Lacie hustle on the floor and make things happen.
Jenna Brown played 9 minutes, Anna Wilson played 13. Both had quiet stat lines but neither of them turned the ball over even once.
Conclusion:
USF out rebounded us 39-34, which is a danger sign. On the other hand, we won't lose many games in which we make 15 treys. We shot 51% to their 33%. Our ability to defend very quick guards is a bit in doubt, and our rebounding clearly needs work. But our shooting was superb and this was enough to cover over a few problems. Next up: Ohio State on Sunday 1pm.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. San Francisco Thursday 7pm - BobK - 11-14-2018
Also welcome back Associate Head Coach Katy Steding
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. San Francisco Thursday 7pm - 81alum - 11-15-2018
Well, I guess I will go to the game. A homecoming of sorts for Goodenbour and Steding. Let's hope the indoor air is better than the outdoor air. The concourse has outdoor air--I'm hoping the gym itself has a lot of air filters.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. San Francisco Thursday 7pm - CTcard - 11-15-2018
What's with the blue uniforms?
Has that been a thing for WBB?
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. San Francisco Thursday 7pm - JJJ - 11-15-2018
(11-15-2018, 08:25 PM)CTcard Wrote: What's with the blue uniforms?
Has that been a thing for WBB?
It's been a thing for a few years--the N7 game.
From last year:
Quote:Stanford women's basketball has partnered with Nike N7 to honor Native American Heritage Month for the second consecutive season and will wear N7-inspired turquoise uniforms at its December 4 game against UC Davis. Turquoise represents harmony, friendship and fellowship in Native American culture.
https://gostanford.com/news/2016/11/28/womens-basketball-stanford-partners-with-n7.aspx
https://gostanford.com/news/2015/11/22/210514495.aspx
Maybe we should wear turquoise the whole season.
We’re up 43-25 with just under 2:00 to go in the half.
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. San Francisco Thursday 7pm - mbdude - 11-15-2018
Just sit Kianna. 3 rd qtr and she's been treated by trainer 3 times
RE: WBB: Stanford vs. San Francisco Thursday 7pm - 2006alum - 11-15-2018
I can't remember us ever having a team where we're looking so much to our underclassmen to make things happen. Other than Alanna, our frosh and sophs have entirely carried us tonight. Very inspiring looking forward to the next few years.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - 81alum - 11-15-2018
Write up done at the top.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - 2006alum - 11-16-2018
Thanks for the writeup, 81! I missed the first quarter and came in mid-way through the second, but from what I saw, I continue to be impressed by our frosh and the improvement in our sophs. They seemed to carry us most of the night. It's truly been years since we've had so many offensive threats both inside and out. Seven players made treys and shotmaking was coming from all over the floor. That was so much fun to see.
Williams is scary good for being weeks into her sophomore year. She can score from anywhere, has great court vision, and plenty of speed, even when hobbling on a bad ankle. At times, she made it look ridiculously effortless. It's been since Candice Wiggins that we've had that kind of all-court playmaker. I like so much of what Sniezek does running the point, but having a PG who can score from everywhere just opens up the floor so much more for everyone else, and it's a brobdingnagian part of why our team is averaging 94 points per game.
Also super impressed by Dodson's improvements. She seems so much more comfortable trying to score under the basket, and her court vision and anticipation have improved substantially too. You wouldn't normally expect a 6'3" post/power forward player to be your assists leader, but she was all over the court. Really liked what I saw from her on offense.
Alanna also seems to have made meaningful strides over the summer. 81, you're absolutely right, she's performing magnificently as a stretch 4, taking things from outside or finding her way inside.
Loved what I saw from the Hulls. Not everything went in, but boy do they have Carrington/McPhee levels of grit and tenacity. I would not want to be the opposing team on offense staring down Dijonai, Lexie, and Lacie.
Speaking of defense... we need to work on that. A lot. In part, that's the tradeoff with having no Sniezek or Kayl on the floor - they were often our best defenders from the perimeter and in the paint, respectively, and while their replacements are substantially fueling our offense, Williams still has a ways to go to consistently cover the opposing point. I also think McPhee was somewhat underrated on D because most of the highlight reel was her ridiculous trick shot playmaking. But she was really tenacious about looking for steals and denying shots in a way that Williams, Brown, and Wilson are not (yet). Agreed that Dijonai is a brobdingnagian asset there - hopefully she can shoot her way back into form, as her offensive production seems to be off from last year (and especially last fall, when she was tearing it up in McPhee's absence).
Alongside defensive lapses, rebounding also wasn't as great as it could be; some of that is what happens when we play a lot of Princeton with outside treys and they slack off a bit and play loose man D (which they seemed to do a lot, leaving a lot of open treys). Statistically, they should get more than 50% of those rebounds under those circumstances. However, there were times where I felt like we slacked off a little bit around the rim on both offense and defense. Maybe that's a tradeoff we have to accept when running Princeton sets, because when our shots clanked off, it often seemed like there were four Dons folding in on the basket against our one post player positioned inside. If it were possible to break down the statistics, I actually thought our third and fourth chance rebounding rate was close to 100% - once we had our other players under the basket, we were fine, but for the first rebound off the glass, we were usually simply outmanned given court positioning.
Finally, it was fun to see Brewer and Moschkau, who don't usually get much playing time. Brewer really seemed to excel in her limited minutes on both offense and defense, with a really terrific block and a nice basket. Moschkau also has a beautiful shot and could definitely be an offensive weapon... but she really needs to work on her D, and I can see why Tara rarely puts her in, because she got beat pretty badly twice in her limited time on court at the end. She should take a few pointers from the Hulls in terms of not being afraid to go after it! I also feel like the coaches should have her sit down for a one-on-one coffee date with Bonnie. I recall Bonnie having a similarly beautiful shot from day one but also having early difficulties transitioning to college D. Yet over her time at Stanford she became a very proficient defensive wing, which led to more time on court and more opportunities to have those ridiculous outside shooting nights.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - BobK - 11-16-2018
Great write ups and thanks. Hated to miss but love the analysis here
Tara spoke at the open practice about filling all scholarships. So we have 15 players and they all could be playing more elsewhere. Thrilled about all the players and a shout out to Jerome whinis a rotation player and had 7 points last night
I think we learn about the Ohio State game today. They didn’t come out for the Sac State game as the smoke in Sac was overwhelming
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - standfan - 11-16-2018
Speaking of the rotation, I was thinking about it last night. Tara typically trims the players getting minutes substantially as we approach conference play, if not sooner. But I suspect it will be a big rotation this year.
It's hard to assign positions due to the flexibility of many of them. (E.g., we started out 4 for 4 on 3 point shots last night with each starter except Lexie hitting one.) So my characterizations are loose and a bit arbitrary.
My early thoughts:
Starters: Kiana, Dijonai, Lexie, Alanna and Nadia
PGs also in rotation: Marta*, Jenna, Anna
2/3s also in rotation: Lacie
4/5s also in rotation: Maya, Alyssa
Not in "rotation" but may get time in a pinch (foul trouble): Alexa, Shannon, Estella
*Kiana has been playing so well, and Dijonai and Lexie/Lacie are so physically gifted, I do not know what happens when Marta returns.
That is 11 in the rotation - several more than Tara's typical rotation. But it's hard to cut it down much. Anna will have to play well to get much time, but I like what I've seen so far this year. Jenna is still playing like a freshman, so her role after Marta returned is also unclear.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - 2006alum - 11-16-2018
Nice analysis, Standfan. Given how fluid our 2-4 spots are, I see no reason why Williams can't start at the 2. The question is just whether we want to lose Lexie for Sniezek. I can see a universe where Tara starts us with Sniezek, Williams, Carrington, Smith, and Fingall for the purposes of recognizing seniority/contributions, and then subs out Sniezek for Lexie around the first timeout, with Williams moving to the 1. Exchanging a pass-first 5'8" player for a 6'1" do-everything wing would force defenses to adjust just as they get settled. Knowing that Tara really thinks highly of Sniezek, that seems most probable to me unless Lexie so consistently outplays Carrington that Carrington becomes first off the bench instead.
What I don't see happening is leaving Sniezek on the floor and then subbing in Brown or Wilson, unless the game is well in hand, because there are just too many other players with stronger offensive outputs competing for the 2-4 spots to do that (e.g., Williams, both Hulls, Carrington, Jerome, and Smith). All that being said, I do think Sniezek is still our strongest PG on defense, so some of this depends on whether we're worried about a high scoring, guard-driven opposing offense or a post-heavy opposing defense where we need lots of outside shooters.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - 81alum - 11-16-2018
With regard to future rotations, defense may make more of a difference than offense.
For example, Kiana is our best offensive guard right now. She has been a good defender at times--I remember her blocking the shot of a taller player more than once, but she is not yet a lock-down defender. Is she going to guard Ionescu, or Kennedy Leonard, or Destiny Slocum? Maybe, but there is a chance the match up won't be favorable for her. If not, and if the opponenet has a couple of quick high-threat guards, then the 2 and the 3 will have to be chosen for defense first. Who are our best defenders against quick guards?
My impressions are that Lexie and Lacie are also very good defensively. They have greater length than most guards. Could either of them keep up with a Slocum? I don't know yet--one of the interesting stories to follow this year will be the development and testing of their defense.
How about Jenna? Perhaps--I'm not sure we have really tested her defense yet. She looks to me as if she should develop into a lock down defender--she is compact and athletic and quick and fast. But college level defense doesn't always come easily, no mater how talented the freshman player is. Watching her defense develop will be another interesting story.
Carrington and Sniezek are our best perimeter defending guards, I think, and this may assure Sniezek of considerable playing time once she comes back.
We will be playing Baylor without Sniezek, of course, and the results against Chloe Jackson and Juicy Landrum may teach us a lot. Those are two very experienced (redshirt senior and a junior), quick guards and they will need to be guarded one-on-one, given that everyone else will be concentrating on the twin towers in the middle. Who will be able to do it? Hopefully Williams and Brown and Wilson will bring their defense up a few notches by the time we play Baylor.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - mbdude - 11-16-2018
(11-16-2018, 01:46 PM)81alum Wrote: With regard to future rotations, defense may make more of a difference than offense.
For example, Kiana is our best offensive guard right now. She has been a good defender at times--I remember her blocking the shot of a taller player more than once, but she is not yet a lock-down defender. Is she going to guard Ionescu, or Kennedy Leonard, or Destiny Slocum? Maybe, but there is a chance the match up won't be favorable for her. If not, and if the opponenet has a couple of quick high-threat guards, then the 2 and the 3 will have to be chosen for defense first. Who are our best defenders against quick guards?
My impressions are that Lexie and Lacie are also very good defensively. They have greater length than most guards. Could either of them keep up with a Slocum? I don't know yet--one of the interesting stories to follow this year will be the development and testing of their defense.
How about Jenna? Perhaps--I'm not sure we have really tested her defense yet. She looks to me as if she should develop into a lock down defender--she is compact and athletic and quick and fast. But college level defense doesn't always come easily, no mater how talented the freshman player is. Watching her defense develop will be another interesting story.
Carrington and Sniezek are our best perimeter defending guards, I think, and this may assure Sniezek of considerable playing time once she comes back.
We will be playing Baylor without Sniezek, of course, and the results against Chloe Jackson and Juicy Landrum may teach us a lot. Those are two very experienced (redshirt senior and a junior), quick guards and they will need to be guarded one-on-one, given that everyone else will be concentrating on the twin towers in the middle. Who will be able to do it? Hopefully Williams and Brown and Wilson will bring their defense up a few notches by the time we play Baylor.
Not disagreeing with anything you said, but my thought would be put our best 5 out there and let the other team worry about matching up with us.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - 2006alum - 11-16-2018
Mbdude, whether or not your approach is wise, it's not how Tara always approaches rotations. She is a master of nullifying the other team's best player by finding a defensive match up against them. It's often why Dijonai gets sent in mid-game with a specific defensive assignment. See, for example, how hounded Pivec was last year in our game against OSU. I generally agree with your approach on offense, but Tara has an exceptional reputation for taking away the other team's best strength, and that often depends on specific guarding assignments. That, in turn affects how much we want to prioritize our best offensive players versus our best defensive match-ups.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - TheFarm07 - 11-16-2018
(11-16-2018, 03:52 PM)2006alum Wrote: Mbdude, whether or not your approach is wise, it's not how Tara always approaches rotations. She is a master of nullifying the other team's best player by finding a defensive match up against them. It's often why Dijonai gets sent in mid-game with a specific defensive assignment. See, for example, how hounded Pivec was last year in our game against OSU. I generally agree with your approach on offense, but Tara has an exceptional reputation for taking away the other team's best strength, and that often depends on specific guarding assignments. That, in turn affects how much we want to prioritize our best offensive players versus our best defensive match-ups.
Ideally, our best offensive players would also be our best defensive players as well, so there would be no trade off necessary. I don't have empirical evidence off the top of my head, but I feel like over the past few years, our losses in the postseason have partly been to teams which have too many offensive weapons to contain and so even when we use our best defensive players to contain our opponent's strength, they have other possibilities at their disposal, while we often sacrifice offensive firepower for better defensive skills.
As we have been talking about Kiana vs. Marta, let them be our example. Though Marta is a great conductor of our offense and our primary perimeter defender, she doesn't really generate offense on her own. Her primary move is to drive to the basket, which doesn't always work, especially against capable defenders/tall posts waiting for her in the paint. As we have seen, teams have significantly sagged off of her while she has the ball, because they know she won't shoot the ball.
Conversely, Kiana is much more versatile offensively. She can shoot the 3-pointer, she can hit the midrange jumper and she can drive to the basket. Her defender can't sell out expecting her to do one thing or another, which makes her much more potent at generating her own offense.
A defending team can almost double up one of our other players like Alanna when Marta has the ball, because they are not worried about being burned by a jump shot. Case in point, over three seasons, Marta has made 96 three point attempts combined during that period while Kiana in just her freshman season made 71 three point baskets.
Having said that, 81 points out that we have a plethora of tremendous guards in our conference: Ionescu, Slocum, Melgoza, etc., not to mention when we face a team like Baylor, our posts already have their hands full guarding Lauren Cox and Kalani Brown and can't really come to assist our guards. So, having a good perimeter defense is key.
We'll see if we can have the best of both worlds going forward. We scored 115 points against Idaho, but also let them hit 60% from long-range as well, which didn't hurt us, but must not have felt good either.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - BosCard - 11-17-2018
The challenge our team faced last year is that we were one-dimensional on offense and easy to defend. Our starting lineup at the end of the season was Sniezek, Williams, McPhee, Smith and Johnson. Teams mostly played a zone or saggy man defense against us that was designed to force our not so great three point shooters (i.e. everyone but Williams) to shoot threes. That defense took away most of our offense and neutralized our best players. When you have teams playing way off Sniezek, McPhee and Johnson, it creates a very clogged lane. Thus McPhee had no space to drive which was her best offensive move. Similarly, Smith had 3 players swarming around her in the post and thus it was difficult to get a pass in let alone have Smith make a post move if she caught it.
Having all the players on the floor be credible offensive threats is so important because it spreads out the spacing which makes everyone a better offensive player. My guess is that Williams is our primary point guard for the rest of the year. She is just as good of a scorer as a PG than she was as a SG. This is because she has a great pull-up three off the dribble. She doesn't need to have a play run for her to get her open to hit a three like some other SG's need. This also allows us to have more length on defense at the 2/3 positions with Carrington, Hull and Hull. Sniezek is one of our best perimeter defenders but she still struggled mightily against really good penetrating guards like Ionescu or Mazyck. They were too big/strong and would just penetrate and shoot over Sniezek or Williams. This is where Carrington is very important because she has both the foot speed to stay in front of those guards and the length to bother their shots. I don't think we have a large enough sample size to judge the Hulls' footspeed but they certainly have good anticipation and long arms which has lead to a lot of steals / disruption of passes.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - 81alum - 11-17-2018
I agree with all the analysis that points to Sniezek's offensive weakness. BosCard's analysis of what went wrong last year is exactly right. We do have some offensive improvements beyond the point guard swap, however:
Maya and Nadia's improvement means that we have a much better offensive player at the 5 than we did last year.
Alanna is hitting treys even better than last year, meaning we have a more effective stretch 4 than a year ago.
Lexie at the three is a much better three point shooter, so far, than McPhee.
If Kianna plays the 2 like last year, she is if anything better than a year ago from long range.
And so...putting Sniezek back at point when there are three other very effective three point shooters on the court would not be quite as problematic as a year ago. But like the rest of you I'll hope for the continued development on both offense and defense of Brown and Wilson. If Brown comes on strong with both offense and defense and begins to master the offense, it would make the decision pretty simple.
The point guard does not have an outsized role in the Princeton when the other team is playing man, since 4 of the players are constantly shuffling, any of the four could be dishing out the assist. We've already seen that with wings getting more assists than guards, for example. The point guard becomes more critical when the other team is playing zone and we leave the Princeton and go to our zone-breaking offense. That is where I think Brown has a lot of potential. Her ability to penetrate half-way and launch and make those teardrop shots from in close is excellent for zone-breaking. She is just 1/5 so far from three point range, though, so the jury is still out on her long range potential at the college level. Anna Wilson so far is 2/11. It is still early, though. We will know a lot more after 4 away games leading in to Baylor.
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - Leftcoast - 11-17-2018
Here’s a picture from last night showing the turquoise unis the team wears occasionally.
Not a fan.
https://goo.gl/images/3QpXHQ
(Ugh .... the img option isn’t working but the link will take you to a SFGate photo.)
RE: WBB: Stanford 96 San Francisco 62 - 81alum - 11-17-2018
(11-17-2018, 10:59 AM)Leftcoast Wrote: Here’s a picture from last night showing the turquoise unis the team wears occasionally.Hah! SFGate got the caption wrong. That is not Maya Dodson but Jenna Brown going up in their first photo.
Not a fan.
https://goo.gl/images/3QpXHQ
(Ugh .... the img option isn’t working but the link will take you to a SFGate photo.)