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All-Pac-12 - Hank 91 - 12-04-2018

I have to say I'm surprised that Walker Little and Paulson Adebo both earned first-team honors, but it's nice that KJ got the second-team nod. Biggest surprise? Neither Arcega-Whiteside nor Kaden Smith made first-team. Without looking at Matt Gay's stats, it's hard for me to imagine he was better than Bailey, who was also relegated to second team.

Honorable Mentions: Holder, Love, Okereke, Parkinson, Swann. Also forgot second-teamers Herbig and Toner.


RE: All-Pac-12 - OutsiderFan - 12-04-2018

And it holds once again...

You must have at least 8 All-Conference (1st & 2nd team) selections to win the conference.  Washington had 9 such players this year. Stanford had 9 such players in 2015, the last time it won the conference.  

Individual honors to be announced at 5pm PT.

Would be shocked if Adebo doesn't get Defensive Frosh of Year considering he's the only Frosh on the first team.


RE: All-Pac-12 - FarmBoy - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 02:31 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  And it holds once again...

You must have at least 8 All-Conference (1st & 2nd team) selections to win the conference.  Washington had 9 such players this year. Stanford had 9 such players in 2015, the last time it won the conference.  

Seems like a chicken or egg scenario. If you win the conference, more of your players will be voted all conference.


RE: All-Pac-12 - Spiny_Norman - 12-04-2018

Full list here - https://pac-12.com/article/2018/12/03/pac-12-football-all-conference-honors-announced


RE: All-Pac-12 - OutsiderFan - 12-04-2018

I don't think so. 

You win the conference with the best players. Remember, these are voted on by the coaches.  And they have nothing to gain by coalescing around only players from the team that won the conference.


RE: All-Pac-12 - FarmBoy - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 02:47 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I don't think so. 

You win the conference with the best players. Remember, these are voted on by the coaches.  And they have nothing to gain by coalescing around only players from the team that won the conference.

You win the conference with the best players, coaches, schedule (home vs away split), and the ball bouncing your way when it matters. You can't pretend that (a) only player skill/talent matters and (b) coaches are immune from being biased towards players from teams that win rather than seeking out the best talent. 

On average, I am sure the list does a good job, but on average, I suspect that on the margin players will be promoted or demoted based on team performance as well.

The only way I can think to check this would be to look at a list of players who made all conference teams vs those who didn't and compare it to the NFL careers for those players. I am sure we'll find players who didn't make the all conference teams who went on to have strong NFL careers.


RE: All-Pac-12 - Phogge - 12-04-2018

Smith may win the Mackey (not likely) and doesn’t make All C.

Ertz unanimous and the Domer wins the Mackey.

Apparently not rocket science. LOL.


RE: All-Pac-12 - Spiny_Norman - 12-04-2018

Justin Herbert could be the 1st QB taken in the draft. He did not even make honorable mention.


RE: All-Pac-12 - 82lsju - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 02:31 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  And it holds once again...

You must have at least 8 All-Conference (1st & 2nd team) selections to win the conference.  Washington had 9 such players this year. Stanford had 9 such players in 2015, the last time it won the conference.  

Individual honors to be announced at 5pm PT.

Would be shocked if Adebo doesn't get Defensive Frosh of Year considering he's the only Frosh on the first team.

looks like we had eight total 1st and 2nd team members 

1st team

- Little
- Adebo (fixed error of having him on the 2nd team)

2nd team

- Costello
- JJAW
- Smith
- Herbig
- Toner
- Bailey

and HM for

- Holder
- Love
- Okereke
- Parkinson
- Swann


RE: All-Pac-12 - ChicagoCard - 12-04-2018

Is it true SC had a big fat zero? What kind of program are they running...


RE: All-Pac-12 - BostonCard - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 02:31 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  And it holds once again...

You must have at least 8 All-Conference (1st & 2nd team) selections to win the conference.  Washington had 9 such players this year. Stanford had 9 such players in 2015, the last time it won the conference.  

Individual honors to be announced at 5pm PT.

Would be shocked if Adebo doesn't get Defensive Frosh of Year considering he's the only Frosh on the first team.

We had eight such players this year.

BC


RE: All-Pac-12 - CTcard - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 02:45 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  Full list here - https://pac-12.com/article/2018/12/03/pac-12-football-all-conference-honors-announced

A few 'round the horn comments. 

1. Skill position picks are closely tied to stats, but interesting where they are not. 
- Minshew first team because he was the story. He threw the most often, but he was well behind Costello in rate stats, and really indistinguishable from Herbert, Browning and Wilkins.
- First team RBs yds/gm leaders. Second team career achievement awards. 
- Top four receivers are top 4 in stats, and separated from the rest - particularly considering #5 is a TE. Hard to pick an order among those four. 

2. Though Smith might get first team TE based on his Mackey Award finalist status, and NFL draft profile. Wilson had better receiving stats. 

3. The Offensive Line picks. 
- My first thought was that since Stanford's OL was the worst run blocking unit in the conference there is no way should have two all-conference players. However, pass blocking was okay, so just maybe deserved. 
- Otherwise, 3 first team OL from UW and 2 from Utah. You'd think that would make UW better than 5th in run offense (yds/gm and yds/carry) and 6th in sacks allowed (on a team that had fewest passing attempts in the conference). Utah doesn't look all that much better, coming in at 3rd/4th in run offense and 8th in sacks allowed. 
- My general sense is that the OLs at Arizona (top run offense, 4th in sacks allowed, zero selections), ASU (2nd/4th run offense, 2nd sacks allowed, 1 second team selection) and probably WSU (not much run offense but easily first in % sacks allowed, 1 second team selection) are undervalued. 
However, like most I cannot give individual names that were snubbed outside of the honorable mention list.

4. Adebo is the only frosh of any kind on a first team. There are two on the second team. 

5. The kickers are funny, with both Utah kickers first team, both Stanford kickers second team. 
- By average yds/punt the top punter is the WSU guy (though not listed on cfbstats.com because WSU didn't punt enough), then the UCLA guy. Utah guy third, Bailey fourth. 
- On FGs, Toner has the best percentage at 14/15, Gay of Utah kicked the most total at 24/29. [Riccitelli made his only FG, putting Stanford at 15/16 - that's second in the country to Wyoming's 16/17.]

(12-04-2018, 03:30 PM)82lsju Wrote:  looks like we had eight total 1st and 2nd team members 

1st team

- Little

2nd team

- Costello
- JJAW
- Smith
- Herbig
- Adebo
- Toner
- Bailey

and HM for

- Holder
- Love
- Okereke
- Parkinson
- Swann

Small error in that Adebo was first team. 

Surprised that Irwin didn't get an honorable mention - tied for 7th in number of catches on the season. 
Slightly urprised Swann made honorable mention. Was thinking Williams probably the best DL on our team.


RE: All-Pac-12 - BostonCard - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 03:30 PM)82lsju Wrote:  looks like we had eight total 1st and 2nd team members 

1st team

- Little

2nd team

- Costello
- JJAW
- Smith
- Herbig
- Adebo
- Toner
- Bailey

and HM for

- Holder
- Love
- Okereke
- Parkinson
- Swann

Adebo was a (well-deserved) first team selection.

I was surprised that Little was a first teamer; seems like it had more to do with reputation.  In contrast, I am shocked that Smith wasn't the first team tight end.

Overall, the breakdown matches what we saw on the field.  Only one player in the first/second team on defense (Adebo), versus five (Little, Herbig, Costello, JJAW, and Smith) on offense, plus two guys on special teams (Baily and Toner).

BC

Casey Tucker was honorable mention at ASU.  Hall was not at Stanford.

BC


RE: All-Pac-12 - OutsiderFan - 12-04-2018

OK, I'm shocked.

Someone needs to explain to me how a guy who didn't make the All Conference team (Merlin Robertson, LB ASU), is Freshman DPOY over a guy (Paulson Adebo) who was FIRST TEAM All Conference.

I don't get it.


RE: All-Pac-12 - donkey687 - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 07:24 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  OK, I'm shocked.

Someone needs to explain to me how a guy who didn't make the All Conference team (Merlin Robertson, LB ASU), is Freshman DPOY over a guy (Paulson Adebo) who was FIRST TEAM All Conference.

I don't get it.

Maybe because Stanford lists him as a Sophomore.


RE: All-Pac-12 - OutsiderFan - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 07:34 PM)donkey687 Wrote:  
(12-04-2018, 07:24 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  OK, I'm shocked.

Someone needs to explain to me how a guy who didn't make the All Conference team (Merlin Robertson, LB ASU), is Freshman DPOY over a guy (Paulson Adebo) who was FIRST TEAM All Conference.

I don't get it.

Maybe because Stanford lists him as a Sophomore.

That can't be it, because he was honorable mention Frosh DPOY.


RE: All-Pac-12 - Phogge - 12-04-2018

Good call on Mike Williams. Really came on the second half. And after a heart issue.


RE: All-Pac-12 - qwerty49 - 12-04-2018

(12-04-2018, 07:39 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  
(12-04-2018, 07:34 PM)donkey687 Wrote:  
(12-04-2018, 07:24 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  OK, I'm shocked.

Someone needs to explain to me how a guy who didn't make the All Conference team (Merlin Robertson, LB ASU), is Freshman DPOY over a guy (Paulson Adebo) who was FIRST TEAM All Conference.

I don't get it.

Maybe because Stanford lists him as a Sophomore.

That can't be it, because he was honorable mention Frosh DPOY.

Yeah, pretty weird.  The math equates to the 7th best LB > 4th best DB.  And that's assuming Adebo was only 4th best.


RE: All-Pac-12 - Phogge - 12-04-2018

Anybody see who the defensive POY was? LOL.


RE: All-Pac-12 - needle - 12-04-2018

Casey Tucker, the offensive lineman who grad-transferred from Stanford to AZ State, named honorable mention All-Pac. Congrats to him.