EUTM might be waning - Printable Version

EUTM might be waning - Printable Version

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EUTM might be waning - OutsiderFan - 12-29-2018

Gotta say I am extremely dumbfounded, even disappointed by Michigan getting trucked by Florida. Sure they had 4 guys sit out, and I'm the first one to say the bowl games are generally meaningless, but JH is suppose to be one of the best coaches not just in college, but all of football. And this is a NY6 bowl game. Michigan's has been blown out by teams with equivalent talent the last two times they have played.

Given how much he is being paid, it sure seems to me Michigan may need to make a coaching change. You can't be paying so much and have your coach be now 1-9 against Top 10 opponents, and unable to beat your rival, can you?

RE: EUTM might be waning - PVTree - 12-29-2018

(12-29-2018, 01:16 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Gotta say I am extremely dumbfounded, even disappointed by Michigan getting trucked by Florida. Sure they had 4 guys sit out, and I'm the first one to say the bowl games are generally meaningless, but JH is suppose to be one of the best coaches not just in college, but all of football. And this is a NY6 bowl game. Michigan's has been blown out by teams with equivalent talent the last two times they have played.

Given how much he is being paid, it sure seems to me Michigan may need to make a coaching change. You can't be paying so much and have your coach be now 1-9 against Top 10 opponents, and unable to beat your rival, can you?

A pick-6 to make it an even more-embarrassing 41-15.

RE: EUTM might be waning - Austroturf - 12-29-2018

Yes, this is a pathetic effort by a team that had CFP design until late in the season. Furthermore, I thought Florida was overrated at #10. The Gators were beatable, but Michigan (minus some key players) did not show up. Shocking.

RE: EUTM might be waning - JohnR34231 - 12-29-2018

(12-29-2018, 01:34 PM)Austroturf Wrote: Yes, this is a pathetic effort by a team that had CFP design until late in the season. Furthermore, I thought Florida was overrated at #10. The Gators were beatable, but Michigan (minus some key players) did not show up. Shocking.

Yeah, if that $7 million a year offer that JH is supposedly getting from the Jets is still open, maybe he should take it.

RE: EUTM might be waning - 82lsju - 12-29-2018

Quote:The blame starts with Michigan football coach Jim Harbaugh.

He was unable to make adjustments. Unable to find ways to put his playmakers in positions to make plays.

Unable to get the Wolverines to bounce back after the Ohio State debacle.

Unable to find a spark. Unable to use any creativity.

And unable to do anything really, as Florida absolutely demolished the Wolverines, 41-15, on Saturday at Mercedes-Benz Stadium.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/jeff-seidel/2018/12/29/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh/2439852002/

some amusing tweets

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/12/29/michigan-football-score-jim-harbaugh-peach-bowl/2440757002/

Quote:Coaching: 2

The defense didn't have Bush or Gary, but this group was pushed all over the place once again Saturday, marking two straight disasters to end the season. Nothing went right. Again. Offensively, it was also more of the same. U-M's deliberate, plodding style can work when you're shutting another team out. But when you're not, you have to adjust. And Michigan's offense never seems to.
Harbaugh has a lot of work to do this offseason with the overall offensive philosophy. And Michigan's defense has plenty of work in front of it as well.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/12/29/michigan-football-grades-everythings-dud-peach-bowl/2440661002/

RE: EUTM might be waning - BostonCard - 12-29-2018

A quick reminder that we would be tickled pink to wind up 10-3 and in a NY6 bowl, even if we got blown out. Hell, all but 10 or so teams in the country would happily swap with Michigan.

Maybe coaching is hard.

BC

RE: EUTM might be waning - chrisk - 12-29-2018

(12-29-2018, 03:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A quick reminder that we would be tickled pink to wind up 10-3 and in a NY6 bowl, even if we got blown out. Hell, all but 10 or so teams in the country would happily swap with Michigan.

Maybe coaching is hard.

BC

Meanwhile, ND is getting schooled by Clemson.

RE: EUTM might be waning - Austroturf - 12-29-2018

(12-29-2018, 03:48 PM)chrisk Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 03:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A quick reminder that we would be tickled pink to wind up 10-3 and in a NY6 bowl, even if we got blown out. Hell, all but 10 or so teams in the country would happily swap with Michigan.

Maybe coaching is hard.

BC

Meanwhile, ND is getting schooled by Clemson.

Yes, the Irish just can't seem to get anything going on offense, while the secondary has given up three big pass plays resulting in TDs. It doesn't feel like nearly the blow-out it actually is; but the scoreboard doesn't lie. Clemson is converting on their chances; the Irish are not. That is the difference.

(12-29-2018, 03:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A quick reminder that we would be tickled pink to wind up 10-3 and in a NY6 bowl, even if we got blown out. Hell, all but 10 or so teams in the country would happily swap with Michigan.

Maybe coaching is hard.

BC

Michigan fans do not see it this way. They are melting down over on Maize n' Brew; and most of them are predicting doom and gloom for 2019. Maybe a bit of an overreaction, but there is no joy in Ann Arbor. Contentment is always a function of expectations.

RE: EUTM might be waning - winflop - 12-30-2018

(12-29-2018, 03:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A quick reminder that we would be tickled pink to wind up 10-3 and in a NY6 bowl, even if we got blown out. Hell, all but 10 or so teams in the country would happily swap with Michigan.

THIS. Michigan hasn't won 10 games since 2007, which is an eternity in Ann Arbor.

(12-29-2018, 03:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Maybe coaching is hard.

It is, but he's also getting paid more than $50 million over 7 years to do that hard job.

RE: EUTM might be waning - JohnR34231 - 12-30-2018

(12-29-2018, 04:40 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 03:48 PM)chrisk Wrote:
(12-29-2018, 03:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A quick reminder that we would be tickled pink to wind up 10-3 and in a NY6 bowl, even if we got blown out. Hell, all but 10 or so teams in the country would happily swap with Michigan.

Maybe coaching is hard.

BC

Meanwhile, ND is getting schooled by Clemson.

Yes, the Irish just can't seem to get anything going on offense, while the secondary has given up three big pass plays resulting in TDs. It doesn't feel like nearly the blow-out it actually is; but the scoreboard doesn't lie. Clemson is converting on their chances; the Irish are not. That is the difference.

(12-29-2018, 03:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A quick reminder that we would be tickled pink to wind up 10-3 and in a NY6 bowl, even if we got blown out. Hell, all but 10 or so teams in the country would happily swap with Michigan.

Maybe coaching is hard.

BC

Michigan fans do not see it this way. They are melting down over on Maize n' Brew; and most of them are predicting doom and gloom for 2019. Maybe a bit of an overreaction, but there is no joy in Ann Arbor. Contentment is always a function of expectations.

Yeah, and some football fans jack up their expectations to the point where their team is almost always going to fall short of them.
They are perpetually discontented and perhaps like it that way.

RE: EUTM might be waning - 82lsju - 12-30-2018

(12-29-2018, 03:18 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A quick reminder that we would be tickled pink to wind up 10-3 and in a NY6 bowl, even if we got blown out. Hell, all but 10 or so teams in the country would happily swap with Michigan.

Maybe coaching is hard.

BC

if we had

- a seven game losing streak to Cal
- got thumped by Cal this year
- got thumped in our bowl game

there would be a lot of wailing here even if we went 10-3....

I vaguely recall a lot of unhappy people here after the 2012 Fiesta Bowl.......

RE: EUTM might be waning - Mick - 12-30-2018

Harbaugh has had three 10-3 seasons in his four years at Michigan. In the eleven years prior to Harbaugh, Michigan had two ten-win seasons. Lloyd Carr, mentioned in the same breath as Bo Schembechler, had six ten-win seasons out of thirteen. BTW, Schembechler was 5-12 in the post-season, while his immediate successor Gary Moeller was 4-1 in the post season. Carr was 6-7 in Bowls, but lost five of his last seven.

Winning percentages by coach:

Schembechler, 79.4%
Moeller, 75.8%
Carr, 75.3%
Harbaugh, 73.1%
Hoke, 60.8%
Rodriguez, 41%

I think they keep Harbaugh for a little while longer. I understand the frustration. Moeller was liked, but couldn't be retained after his drunk-in-public incident, Carr was and is beloved (he still attends the UM games) and was 20-8 against Top Ten opponents. And Harbaugh can't seem to beat the best opponents.

RE: EUTM might be waning - OutsiderFan - 12-30-2018

The issue isn't if Jim Harbaugh is good or not. He is good. The issue is he is being paid so much to be elite and he is not elite.

These college sports programs have it backwards. They pay coaches hoping they perform, not after they do. Look at Cal with the Wilcox extension and Brohm at Purdue. They went 7-5 and 6-6 respectively, but both got big raises, Wilcox with all guaranteed money (Cal always negotiates against itself).

JH should be paid at the $4-5 million range, as that is commensurate with other coaches who are as accomplished as he is. But instead, he's paid at the level of Urban Meyer and Jimbo Fisher, even more than Dabo Swinney, all coaches with National Championship wins.

RE: EUTM might be waning - Goose - 12-30-2018

(12-30-2018, 10:34 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The issue isn't if Jim Harbaugh is good or not. He is good. The issue is he is being paid so much to be elite and he is not elite.

Are you sure he is being paid so much to be elite? As I see it, he probably would coach at Michigan for less money than he is getting. I believe that the big payment is more driven by Michigan saying "See, we are big time and will do what it takes to be elite" rather than actually being elite. If you have the money, actually paying it out has no downside. Alums will contribute to paying JH, so no reason not to do so. The same alums may not contribute to paying for women's gymnastics, so the money pot is not fixed size. It becomes an issue only when the money isn't available any more, which may be coming if things don't improve.
At Cal, everybody is worried that Wilcox is using the job as a stepping stone, so the AD wants to show he is doing all that can be done to keep him. Overpaying is one way to do that. Cal isn't exactly flush, so it is harder to do, but Wilcox was kind of golden (until the last two games. Fans are very fickle.) Coach's salaries are often more about optics than performance.

RE: EUTM might be waning - 2006alum - 12-30-2018

I'm not sure I think coaching at Michigan and coaching at Alabama, FSU, or Clemson are the same thing - Michigan has a 20% out-of-state acceptance rate; Alabama has a 54% acceptance rate, Florida State has a 49% acceptance rate, and Clemson has a 47% acceptance rate - all with what I'm sure are far, far less competitive applicant pools. Michigan is a top 25 undergrad and has similar (though not as extreme) recruiting hurdles as Berkeley in terms of getting players admitted. Harbaugh may not be recruiting with one hand tied behind his back the way Shaw is, but he's at least missing a finger or two. That might not justify pay equal to Meyer, Swinney, or Fisher, but Harbaugh has a tougher job than any of those three, IMHO, because he has to recruit among a smaller pool and then do more to ensure his players maintain academic eligibility once they're in.

RE: EUTM might be waning - BostonCard - 12-30-2018

(12-30-2018, 10:34 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The issue isn't if Jim Harbaugh is good or not. He is good. The issue is he is being paid so much to be elite and he is not elite.

These college sports programs have it backwards. They pay coaches hoping they perform, not after they do. Look at Cal with the Wilcox extension and Brohm at Purdue. They went 7-5 and 6-6 respectively, but both got big raises, Wilcox with all guaranteed money (Cal always negotiates against itself).

JH should be paid at the $4-5 million range, as that is commensurate with other coaches who are as accomplished as he is. But instead, he's paid at the level of Urban Meyer and Jimbo Fisher, even more than Dabo Swinney, all coaches with National Championship wins.

He got paid to resurrect Michigan, and had the track record, having resurrected Stanford (going from 1-10 the year before he was hired to 12-1 four years later. He then resurrected San Francisco,taking a team who had not had a winning season in almost a decade to the Super Bowl.

That’s what Michigan played for. Mick has described Michigan pre-Harbaugh earlier in this thread. He has dramatically improved the team, though he has fallen a bit short of being truly elite. That being said, there’s probably a 90% chance that anyone they hire is a downgrade.

BC

RE: EUTM might be waning - OutsiderFan - 12-30-2018

(12-30-2018, 11:42 AM)BostonCard Wrote:
(12-30-2018, 10:34 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The issue isn't if Jim Harbaugh is good or not. He is good. The issue is he is being paid so much to be elite and he is not elite.

These college sports programs have it backwards. They pay coaches hoping they perform, not after they do. Look at Cal with the Wilcox extension and Brohm at Purdue. They went 7-5 and 6-6 respectively, but both got big raises, Wilcox with all guaranteed money (Cal always negotiates against itself).

JH should be paid at the $4-5 million range, as that is commensurate with other coaches who are as accomplished as he is. But instead, he's paid at the level of Urban Meyer and Jimbo Fisher, even more than Dabo Swinney, all coaches with National Championship wins.

He got paid to resurrect Michigan, and had the track record, having resurrected Stanford (going from 1-10 the year before he was hired to 12-1 four years later. He then resurrected San Francisco,taking a team who had not had a winning season in almost a decade to the Super Bowl.

That’s what Michigan played for. Mick has described Michigan pre-Harbaugh earlier in this thread. He has dramatically improved the team, though he has fallen a bit short of being truly elite. That being said, there’s probably a 90% chance that anyone they hire is a downgrade.

BC

Michigan is a Top 5 college football job in the country. Many coaches can win 10 games there. Many.

RE: EUTM might be waning - BostonCard - 12-30-2018

(12-30-2018, 11:52 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(12-30-2018, 11:42 AM)BostonCard Wrote:
(12-30-2018, 10:34 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The issue isn't if Jim Harbaugh is good or not. He is good. The issue is he is being paid so much to be elite and he is not elite.

These college sports programs have it backwards. They pay coaches hoping they perform, not after they do. Look at Cal with the Wilcox extension and Brohm at Purdue. They went 7-5 and 6-6 respectively, but both got big raises, Wilcox with all guaranteed money (Cal always negotiates against itself).

JH should be paid at the $4-5 million range, as that is commensurate with other coaches who are as accomplished as he is. But instead, he's paid at the level of Urban Meyer and Jimbo Fisher, even more than Dabo Swinney, all coaches with National Championship wins.

He got paid to resurrect Michigan, and had the track record, having resurrected Stanford (going from 1-10 the year before he was hired to 12-1 four years later. He then resurrected San Francisco,taking a team who had not had a winning season in almost a decade to the Super Bowl.

That’s what Michigan played for. Mick has described Michigan pre-Harbaugh earlier in this thread. He has dramatically improved the team, though he has fallen a bit short of being truly elite. That being said, there’s probably a 90% chance that anyone they hire is a downgrade.

BC

Michigan is a Top 5 college football job in the country. Many coaches can win 10 games there. Many.

And yet, many coaches have not. So either Michigan is not as good a job as you think, or winning ten games is harder than you think.

BC

RE: EUTM might be waning - winflop - 12-30-2018

(12-30-2018, 09:45 AM)82lsju Wrote: I vaguely recall a lot of unhappy people here after the 2012 Fiesta Bowl.......

Unhappy yes, but not calling for Shaw to be fired. I think it was also the first time Shawgren playcalling cost us a game.

RE: EUTM might be waning - OutsiderFan - 12-30-2018

Alabama, LSU, USC, Texas, Notre Dame, all the top programs have had coaches who couldn't get it done. But Michigan is the all-time winningest program in college football history, tied with ND for a 73% all-time win %. I don't think I'm being too hard on Jim Harbaugh at all. He lost every truly big game his team played this season, with statistically the #1 defense in FBS to aid his offensive prowess.