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RE: Class of 2020 - OutsiderFan - 05-11-2019

I would rather have McKee based on what I have gathered, but I’d also rather have both than just McKee. It is quite surprising Shaw didn’t offer Butterfield.


RE: Class of 2020 - JohnR34231 - 05-11-2019

(05-11-2019, 04:43 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I would rather have McKee based on what I have gathered, but I’d also rather have both than just McKee. It is quite surprising Shaw didn’t offer Butterfield.

It isn't particularly surprising if you have ever heard Shaw talk about his philosophy on recruiting QB's. He says you have to be very careful you don't get too many, because all that will happen is that they will transfer.
You can argue that it is misguided, but that's another issue.


RE: Class of 2020 - OutsiderFan - 05-11-2019

I get the philosophy and I can even buy it, depending on the dynamics at play.

Right now, they are looking at:

2019: Costello
2020-21: Mills
2022: West or McKee

If they have seen enough from West to believe he will be good, not bringing in another QB can be justified. BUT, it’s always better to have more better players at every position. Maybe Butterfield would be better than West, McKee, or both.  Exactly why does Shaw care if a QB transfers? It happens all the time and is just part of the competitive process of college sports. Why should he fall on his sword to stop the possibility of transfers? He and Stanford don’t owe recruits anything other than a fair opportunity to compete.

This “we don’t want to take Stanford away” mentality also manifests in the slow pace and low numbers of offers. It sucks if a guy commits and doesn’t get admitted, but how is it Shaw’s responsibility that a recruit didn’t do enough to get admitted? 

Maybe classify offers in different categories and take early commits from guys you are certain will be admitted. For guys with questions about admissions, take their commits on provisional basis, and tell them they will be made official when admitted, on a first come, firsts served basis. This way you create competition between recruits and take the commit denied admission dynamic Shaw hates off the table.

Maybe give 10 recruits per class who want Stanford, but are admission question marks, provisional offers that can receive provisional commit status (soft verbal, not a public commit) and say the first three to get admitted will have their scholarship offer made official.


RE: Class of 2020 - JohnR34231 - 05-11-2019

if Mills didn't have knee problems, not offering Butterfield would make sense.
Given that he does, offering Butterfield (at least as an insurance policy) would be a good move.
I agree if QB's transfer, they transfer. It happens a lot these days, and isn't the end of the world.


RE: Class of 2020 - Phogge - 05-11-2019

If you are below the scholie threshold then why not at least offer.

I still think Shaw is prejudiced against Antioch and Brentwood. And he probably remembers that the original Butter got into trouble over a prank back in the day.LOL.


RE: Class of 2020 - JohnR34231 - 05-11-2019

(05-11-2019, 07:00 AM)Phogge Wrote:  If you are below the scholie threshold then why not at least offer.

I still think Shaw is prejudiced against Antioch and Brentwood. And he probably remembers that the original Butter got into trouble over a prank back in the day.LOL.

Didn't realize Shaw and Butterfield Sr played at the same time at Stanford.
I suppose it's possible they didn't get along and that has affected Shaw's decision.
What I think is more likely is that Shaw is being optimistic about Mills and thus feels he doesn't need (at least right now) to offer another QB.


RE: Class of 2020 - slide - 05-11-2019

Shaw is open to offering another QB in this class.  that stance makes the decision not to offer a national top 100, a legacy with grades (3.95 gpa) and a prototype pocket size all the more curious.


RE: Class of 2020 - CTcard - 05-11-2019

(05-11-2019, 05:56 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  if Mills didn't have knee problems, not offering Butterfield would make sense.
Given that he does, offering Butterfield (at least as an insurance policy) would be a good move.
I agree if QB's transfer, they transfer. It happens a lot these days, and isn't the end of the world.

Well, Butterfield would really be an insurance policy in case McKee ends up injured (or not so good) rather than Mills. Butterfield and Mills are three classes apart.

As far as Shaw is concerned, I don't think the problem is transferring . He believes that QBs disgruntled because they are not playing when they think they should can be disruptive to team chemistry.


RE: Class of 2020 - JohnR34231 - 05-11-2019

(05-11-2019, 07:21 AM)slide Wrote:  Shaw is open to offering another QB in this class.  that stance makes the decision not to offer a national top 100, a legacy with grades (3.95 gpa) and a prototype pocket size all the more curious.

Didn't realize that.
Well I suppose it is possible that he isn't a fan of the Butterfields.
I do remember talking to some people in the Athletic Department back then who weren't.


RE: Class of 2020 - BobK - 05-11-2019

I’m hearing a lower GPA.
Yes there was that episode back then


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 05-11-2019

Mills’ health status has nothing to do with Butterfield.  If Mills is healthy, he starts as a senior in 2020 and goes to the NFL after graduating.  If he’s not healthy, West would get the start, and Mills probably takes his degree and moves on.  Either way, Mills and McKee/Butterfield overlap for one year, a year that Shaw typically doesn’t play the freshmen.

The issue is really if West and or McKee don’t pan out.

BC

Was that episode the vandalism of the gay liberation statue?

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - JohnR34231 - 05-11-2019

(05-11-2019, 09:19 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  Mills’ health status has nothing to do with Butterfield.  If Mills is healthy, he starts as a senior in 2020 and goes to the NFL after graduating.  If he’s not healthy, West would get the start, and Mills probably takes his degree and moves on.  Either way, Mills and McKee/Butterfield overlap for one year, a year that Shaw typically doesn’t play the freshmen.

The issue is really if West and or McKee don’t pan out.

BC

Was that episode the vandalism of the gay liberation statue?

BC

Mills heads off to the NFL after only one year as a starter (and unless Costello gets hurt he probably won't play much this year)?
Well, maybe.
I was assuming he'd need two years of experience to be NFL ready.
Then again given the fragility of his knee maybe he should go as soon as he can.


RE: Class of 2020 - Phogge - 05-11-2019

Defaced the Segal statue.

If you have never seen the installation of his Holocaust Memorial near the 17th tee at Lincoln Park in The City it’s worth visiting. Incredibly moving for all faiths and non-believers. Just off the grounds of the Palace of the Legion of Honor.


RE: Class of 2020 - Goose - 05-11-2019

?
(05-11-2019, 09:43 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:  
(05-11-2019, 09:19 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  Mills’ health status has nothing to do with Butterfield.  If Mills is healthy, he starts as a senior in 2020 and goes to the NFL after graduating.  If he’s not healthy, West would get the start, and Mills probably takes his degree and moves on.  Either way, Mills and McKee/Butterfield overlap for one year, a year that Shaw typically doesn’t play the freshmen.

The issue is really if West and or McKee don’t pan out.


Mills heads off to the NFL after only one year as a starter (and unless Costello gets hurt he probably won't play much this year)?

Well, maybe.
I was assuming he'd need two years of experience to be NFL ready.
Then again given the fragility of his knee maybe he should go as soon as he can.

Probably depends greatly on what kind of a year Mills has. If he has an absolutely super year and is a consensus first round, probably there is no question he (or anybody in that position) should go. Failing that, it gets trickier. Some teams may want to see him make it through two years playing in order to have some confidence he will actually be able to help them. Other teams may take a chance in the third or later rounds, but would that be worth giving up on having a second year where you are able to be a first round pick? He could get hurt again, but if that happens he probably shouldn't consider an NFL career anyway. If he plays the same, his draft stock probably would go up anyway because he survived a second year. Will it go up enough to matter, who knows?

This all assumes Mills is good enough to have such options. We are all hopeful, but YMMV.


RE: Class of 2020 - Goose - 05-11-2019

I think it important to note that Butterfield was NOT Oregon's first choice. Their first choice committed to Clemson. While Butterfield tweeted that Oregon was going to take two QBs anyway, it is unclear to me that he would have chosen Oregon if the other guy had. I am also not convinced that he was being told the truth by Oregon. Let's see who else they take for 2020.

The write-ups say Butterfield is a "pocket passer", not a dual threat. That said, Oregon isn't running a Chip Kelly offense anymore, so maybe that is OK. It will be interesting to see what happens in 2020.


RE: Class of 2020 - BobK - 05-11-2019

I’m hearing a lower GPA.
Yes there was that episode back then


RE: Class of 2020 - 82lsju - 05-11-2019

(05-11-2019, 09:19 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  Was that episode the vandalism of the gay liberation statue?

BC

https://stanforddailyarchive.com/cgi-bin/stanford?a=d&d=stanford19940517-01.2.6&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN-------


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 05-11-2019

I don’t know why you’d take into account something that dad did in terms of deciding whether to offer jr. a scholarship.

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - Goose - 05-11-2019

On this thread, many have argued that Stanford is "self-sanctioning" because we do not award the maximum number of scholarships allowed each year. I think this could be so, but I also think there are arguments that it is not the case.

Certainly, if we awarded the "unused" scholarships to our preferred walk-ons, I don't think anybody here would assert that this would make the team better. Using these scholarships would help us only if that would bring us players that we could use that we wouldn't otherwise get. Just having more players may not help us. The coaches must dedicate time to coaching all the players they have. There are a limited amount of coaching resources available, and a limited amount of practice time available. If you bring in a bunch of guys that just aren't very good, it may actually create a weaker team because the ones that are good don't get the reps they need.

I am sure that people will point out the shortages we had this year on the offensive line during spring ball. However, does anybody here know for a fact that there are some offensive linemen that were admissible, wanted to come to Stanford, were PAC-12 quality guys, and we didn't offer them? I for sure have no way of knowing. However, I think the coaching staff does know, and if there were guys out there that they wanted, even if it was a bit of a reach, they would have offered them.

Remember coach Shaw's statements regarding remote camps, where he pointed out that in some cases there are like four players in the state that can get into Stanford, so remote camps aren't interesting to him. It has been argued that we should offer guys who are good football players but who have not yet decided that they are willing to do the work to get into Stanford. In fact, it is argued we should over-offer and take those that make it. I doubt this would change things much. I think the coaches read the situation pretty well and mostly know which guys are actually going to do the work. We in fact have offered guys who then decided to go elsewhere. So we lose some that had offers, but I doubt we would gain many good players if we made more offers. If you aren't already pretty sold on Stanford, it is unlikely you are going to suddenly re-structure your academic aspirations just because you got an offer from Stanford that you didn't really seek.

In short, this "self-sanctioning" argument only works if there is a pool of players out there that want to come to Stanford, are good enough to be a net positive, are good enough to be admitted, but don't come here only because they weren't offered a football scholarship. I am not sure such a pool exists.


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 05-11-2019

Speaking of 2020 QB’s...




BC