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RE: Class of 2020 - McKenwood - 11-05-2019

(11-05-2019, 02:43 PM)slide Wrote:  update on '20 recruiting:




I guess no multitasking allowed on recruiting trips -- if looking at '20s, no room to also look at '21s

Would have been a great time to evaluate Stanford's 2021 QB targets. A decision about who to offer needs to be made shortly.


RE: Class of 2020 - OutsiderFan - 11-06-2019

Shaw did hint at more athletic QBs being a priority, but he included a lot of other attributes beyond “not just a pocket passer,” that muddled the message a bit. While it may be true what he says about being patient and waiting for guys to come to them, it still comes off to me as equally arrogant and lazy.

You show me a sales organization that doesn’t aggressively sell and I’ll show you one that competition is gaining on, or is already in a trail position and falling behind. There is a reason McDonald’s runs ads every single day and has for years. The more people you court the more prospects you will have. There may be few that meet your standards, but saying you are only looking for one is self-limiting. What if there is one without working hard and three if you do? And if there are three, why not offer all of them?

Anyway, another insightful comment was from Costello, when talking about Austin Jones. He said they are moving more to throwing to RBs. I wonder if this is where the offense is going and why they offered Casey Filkins in addition to EJ Smith. If they land these guys, all RBs in last two classes will have been accomplished receivers in high school.


RE: Class of 2020 - Phogge - 11-06-2019

Program is stale. No need to buy season tix. When you want to attend buy a cheap ticket from one of the brothers outside and move to a 50 yard line seat after a few minutes of the first Q. There are plenty of available seats in the upper sunnyside 50 area, home to the commercial real estate boys.


RE: Class of 2020 - Goose - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 04:21 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  You show me a sales organization that doesn’t aggressively sell and I’ll show you one that competition is gaining on, or is already in a trail position and falling behind. There is a reason McDonald’s runs ads every single day and has for years

Shaw is running a college football team, not a fast food chain. He isn't "selling" anything, really. He is finding opportunities to make the "best" 20 to 25 deals a year he can for the mutual benefit of both parties. Finding more players at any given position than are actually needed has an opportunity cost both to Stanford and to the recruit. Fast food chains can just sell more product. Getting into Stanford is difficult enough. Offering a position and then not honoring that offer because there is no space for somebody will very quickly generate the reputation "Do you really want to take all those AP classes and then get screwed because they don't honor their offer and you don't even get admitted as a result". Not going to work out well for the team.

If you feel you must look at it as "selling" situation, I would point out that I see no adds from Château Pétrus or Domaine de la Romanée-Conti. There are after-market adds, but none from the producers. Why? Two reasons. First, they sell all the product they wish to anyway, and second, their product is a high-end item whose appeal would be reduced by direct advertising. It is a different strategy appropriate to their situation. Shaw has one also.


RE: Class of 2020 - Bampa - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 09:28 AM)Goose Wrote:  
(11-06-2019, 04:21 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  You show me a sales organization that doesn’t aggressively sell and I’ll show you one that competition is gaining on, or is already in a trail position and falling behind. There is a reason McDonald’s runs ads every single day and has for years

Shaw is running a college football team, not a fast food chain. He isn't "selling" anything, really. He is finding opportunities to make the "best" 20 to 25 deals a year he can for the mutual benefit of both parties. Finding more players at any given position than are actually needed has an opportunity cost both to Stanford and to the recruit. Fast food chains can just sell more product. Getting into Stanford is difficult enough. Offering a position and then not honoring that offer because there is no space for somebody will very quickly generate the reputation "Do you really want to take all those AP classes and then get screwed because they don't honor their offer and you don't even get admitted as a result". Not going to work out well for the team.

If you feel you must look at it as "selling" situation, I would point out that I see no adds from Château Pétrus or Domaine de la Romanée-Conti. There are after-market adds, but none from the producers. Why? Two reasons. First, they sell all the product they wish to anyway, and second, their product is a high-end item whose appeal would be reduced by direct advertising. It is a different strategy appropriate to their situation. Shaw has one also.

Yeah, but Shaw's product is showing signs of being corked!


RE: Class of 2020 - JustAnotherFan - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 09:28 AM)Goose Wrote:  Finding more players at any given position than are actually needed has an opportunity cost both to Stanford and to the recruit. 

This point might have more merit if we didn't have a bunch of unused scholarships each season. We need to actually use all the scholarships we have. I'm not saying offer 100 lineman each year like our competitors, but it sure would be nice to have more than 6 lineman who are serviceable at any given time.


RE: Class of 2020 - Goose - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 09:39 AM)Bampa Wrote:  Yeah, but Shaw's product is showing signs of corkage!

It is not the corks. The wine is just much more sous bois than usual. The last few vintages have had some problems. This year, we had a hail of injuries with the damage concentrated in a few vineyards that are normally reliable. However, the replacement plantings of new vines from previous years seem to be bearing good fruit much earlier than expected. Naturally, we expect a return to our normal quality next year. I tell you this in confidence, because we can never admit publicly that this year's vintage is not the "Vintage of the Century".

(11-06-2019, 09:45 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:  
(11-06-2019, 09:28 AM)Goose Wrote:  Finding more players at any given position than are actually needed has an opportunity cost both to Stanford and to the recruit. 

This point might have more merit if we didn't have a bunch of unused scholarships each season. We need to actually use all the scholarships we have. I'm not saying offer 100 lineman each year like our competitors, but it sure would be nice to have more than 6 lineman who are serviceable at any given time.

I certainly agree that taking full advantage of all our available scholarships is desirable. I think we are trying to move in that direction. However, I don't believe that the staff just fails to recruit an adequate number of guys. The staff is neither lazy nor stupid. I think the problem is that some years we have positions of need that we can't fill because the number of qualified candidates is just too small. I do think that the staff looks at the potentially admissible candidates and ranks them based on their potential to contribute. Below a certain point on that list, we do not offer a scholarship even though we may not have as many guys as we want. We also don't offer guys in areas where we don't have a need just to fill the list.

One can argue with this approach, saying having somebody is better than having nobody. However, coaching players who really don't have the talent to play at an adequate level takes coaching time and denies some reps for guys who will play. That may not be a good trade-off. It is also true that some guys who aren't expected to be good turn out to be great. Stanford uses preferred walk-on status as their method of sorting out the wheat from the chaff. This also provides a pool of "warm bodies" in case we are reduced to that, although OL players are still in short supply. Having some scholarships to give these guys is a tool in the process. I think this approach is rational. I also think we are tweaking it a bit to fill a larger percentage of scholarships from the start. However, I don't see us filling each recruiting class just to fill it.


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 11-06-2019

I think there is some evidence that otherwise academically qualified, highly rated players are being missed, or are not identified early enough in the process.

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - slide - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 11:52 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  I think there is some evidence that otherwise academically qualified, highly rated players are being missed, or are not identified early enough in the process.

BC

very kind on "some" descriptor


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 12:10 PM)slide Wrote:  
(11-06-2019, 11:52 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  I think there is some evidence that otherwise academically qualified, highly rated players are being missed, or are not identified early enough in the process.

BC

very kind on "some" descriptor

+1 to slide, unfortunately.


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 12:10 PM)slide Wrote:  
(11-06-2019, 11:52 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  I think there is some evidence that otherwise academically qualified, highly rated players are being missed, or are not identified early enough in the process.

BC

very kind on "some" descriptor

Pretend I said it with a British accent to emphasize the understatement.

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - Spiny_Norman - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 01:02 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  
(11-06-2019, 12:10 PM)slide Wrote:  
(11-06-2019, 11:52 AM)BostonCard Wrote:  I think there is some evidence that otherwise academically qualified, highly rated players are being missed, or are not identified early enough in the process.

BC

very kind on "some" descriptor

Pretend I said it with a British accent to emphasize the understatement.

BC

in my head I hear it spoken in the voice of Basil Fawlty.


RE: Class of 2020 - slide - 11-06-2019

(11-06-2019, 01:17 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  in my head I hear it spoken in the voice of Basil Fawlty.

LOL

I was thinking of Michael Palin in A Fish Called Wanda (in trying to defend the practice/malpractice)


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 11-06-2019

Maybe I should make this my avatar:

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]


BC


RE: Class of 2020 - slide - 11-06-2019

very good.  just be careful if you do if you have planned travel to China.  humor sometimes doesn't translate well.


RE: Class of 2020 - Phogge - 11-06-2019

I don't like whine.


RE: Class of 2020 - Hulk01 - 11-07-2019

The parallel to a sales organization is not apt.

And even if Stanford football was one, or had one,
not all sales organizations operate alike.


RE: Class of 2020 - OutsiderFan - 11-07-2019

(11-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Hulk01 Wrote:  The parallel to a sales organization is not apt.

And even if Stanford football was one, or had one,
not all sales organizations operate alike.

In fact, and in practice, it absolutely is. Go do some looking at how the Top programs in the country operate. They absolutely are sales organizations.  Recruiting is all a sales job and it never stops. I puzzles me how anyone could conclude anything different.


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 11-07-2019

(11-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Hulk01 Wrote:  The parallel to a sales organization is not apt.

And even if Stanford football was one, or had one,
not all sales organizations operate alike.

^ From a guy who may have written a book or two about sales.  And to be more to the point, Hulk's books are specifically about sales of services and other intangible products, so he might know a thing or two.

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - BobK - 11-07-2019

Plus outstanding books.