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RE: Class of 2020 - qwerty49 - 11-07-2019

(11-07-2019, 01:28 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  
(11-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Hulk01 Wrote:  The parallel to a sales organization is not apt.

And even if Stanford football was one, or had one,
not all sales organizations operate alike.

In fact, and in practice, it absolutely is. Go do some looking at how the Top programs in the country operate. They absolutely are sales organizations.  Recruiting is all a sales job and it never stops. I puzzles me how anyone could conclude anything different.

Outsider, maybe you haven't been around the Stanford boards long enough.  I'm going to respect Hulk's anonymity here, but you should know you are addressing, and a bit disrepectfully, a nationally recognized author and speaker on sales and marketing, who has worked directly with many sales organizations.  

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but honestly when it comes to sales and marketing I'm gonna listen to Hulk's professional opinion for a long time before I consider yours.  

Look before you leap.  Just sayin.


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 11-07-2019



Always a good day when you flip one from the Bears :)


RE: Class of 2020 - OutsiderFan - 11-08-2019

(11-07-2019, 03:07 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  
(11-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Hulk01 Wrote:  The parallel to a sales organization is not apt.

And even if Stanford football was one, or had one,
not all sales organizations operate alike.

^ From a guy who may have written a book or two about sales.  And to be more to the point, Hulk's books are specifically about sales of services and other intangible products, so he might know a thing or two.

BC

That's great, but until someone makes a compelling case for why recruiting is not a sales activity, I'll be quite happy to rely on my own ability to synthesize information, connect dots, think critically, use logic, and my own experiences to draw my own conclusions, thank you very much.  

The reality is this is probably a dispute over semantics, but to me it's really simple. It doesn't matter if you are an organism looking for a mate, a sentient being running for the highest elected office, or anything in between, it's all sales.  Anyone part of an organization that has to convince others to do something is in a sales organization. And the reality is we are all sales people whether we ever think of ourselves that way or not.

Now, if you want to delimit the definition of sales so it's scope only involves the skill of separating others from their money in exchange for a good or service, no, organizations that recruit are not sales organizations.  But given money is just a belief system and demand is demand, that's way too simplistic a definition for me to operate under.

(11-07-2019, 05:28 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:  
(11-07-2019, 01:28 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  
(11-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Hulk01 Wrote:  The parallel to a sales organization is not apt.

And even if Stanford football was one, or had one,
not all sales organizations operate alike.

In fact, and in practice, it absolutely is. Go do some looking at how the Top programs in the country operate. They absolutely are sales organizations.  Recruiting is all a sales job and it never stops. I puzzles me how anyone could conclude anything different.

Outsider, maybe you haven't been around the Stanford boards long enough.  I'm going to respect Hulk's anonymity here, but you should know you are addressing, and a bit disrepectfully, a nationally recognized author and speaker on sales and marketing, who has worked directly with many sales organizations.  

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but honestly when it comes to sales and marketing I'm gonna listen to Hulk's professional opinion for a long time before I consider yours.  

Look before you leap.  Just sayin.

How is anything I said disrespectful in any way?

So Filkins flips..

Have y'all seen his highlight vids?  Based on my viewing, he's a less physically gifted CMac. Everyone will assume it's because they are white RBs, but I think it is just a reality that what they do and how they look on the field are all similar regardless of their skin colors. Filkins is listed at 5-11, but he looks taller than CMac did in his high school vids to me.  

I'm now super curious what this means for EJ Smith prospects. My assumption is Filkins is only committing because Smith is out of picture and Filkins is Plan B. We're like 5 weeks out from signing day. Who are y'all's guesses for the last few spots?

OL Rogers, OL Pogorelc, DL Keneley? Who else?

There must be a ILB or Safety unless again, they plan to move Starr to Safety, right?


RE: Class of 2020 - BobK - 11-08-2019

I have 7 possibles on my list. At least one admitted maybe more than one of the 7

However we need all commits accepted. Not quite there

And that’s the game outsider and the books were awesome and very helpful in my biz so a simple apology might be appropriate right?


lex24 - lex24 - 11-08-2019

For those of us playing at home - can someone give a general overview of how recruiting looks for 2020. Not those who we we missed or how lousy Shaw is at it.   Just the facts. Numbers. Areas of strength, weakness etc. 

That would be very 
helpful. Thanks.


RE: Class of 2020 - Phogge - 11-08-2019

Geez Bobbbbbbbb, I don’t think the comment rose to cat fight status. Then again I don’t read any financial books unless they contain at least three murders, illicit affairs, gun molls and the British Secret Service.


RE: lex24 - slide - 11-08-2019

(11-08-2019, 08:34 AM)lex24 Wrote:  For those of us playing at home - can someone give a general overview of how recruiting looks for 2020. Not those who we we missed or how lousy Shaw is at it.   Just the facts. Numbers. Areas of strength, weakness etc. 

That would be very 
helpful. Thanks.

17 verbals so far (with a few offers still out):
1 QB: McKee
1 RB: Filkins
0 FB:
4 WR: Humphreys, Farrell, Mims, Starr
2 TE: Yurosek, Ungar 
3 OL: Hinton, McLaughlin, Metcalf
1 DT: Phillips
0 DE:
0 OLB:
0 ILB:
3 CB: Hector, Jones, Porter
0 S:
1 K: Karty
1 LS: Parsons

Rivals has the class at #26; 247 has the class at #20


RE: Class of 2020 - BobK - 11-08-2019

Possibles:
OL Rogers, OL Pogorelc, DL Keneley as named by outsider and 4 more I believe including Smith.


RE: Class of 2020 - Phogge - 11-08-2019

Looks like they are planning a defense consisting of one DT and 10 DB’s. Hard to throw on that but easy to average 500 yards a game rushing. Especially if the new safeties tackle like the present starters.


RE: lex24 - SamuelMcF - 11-08-2019

(11-08-2019, 11:11 AM)slide Wrote:  
(11-08-2019, 08:34 AM)lex24 Wrote:  For those of us playing at home - can someone give a general overview of how recruiting looks for 2020. Not those who we we missed or how lousy Shaw is at it.   Just the facts. Numbers. Areas of strength, weakness etc. 

That would be very 
helpful. Thanks.

17 verbals so far (with a few offers still out):
1 QB: McKee
1 RB: Filkins
0 FB:
4 WR: Humphreys, Farrell, Mims, Starr
2 TE: Yurosek, Ungar 
3 OL: Hinton, McLaughlin, Metcalf
1 DT: Phillips
0 DE:
0 OLB:
0 ILB:
3 CB: Hector, Jones, Porter
0 S:
1 K: Karty
1 LS: Parsons

Rivals has the class at #26; 247 has the class at #20

Biggest area of weakness: a real possibility we sign zero linebackers total in this class, which will be this year's OL problem all over again in a couple years. Would love to see Yurosek move to OLB if Ungar turns out well. 

2 DL would be barely ok, but would really prefer 3. (AFAIK that's still on the table.)


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 11-08-2019

We do have a pretty highly rated walk-on at DT as well.  But your sentiment about needing another D-linemen, any linebacker, and some safety help is well-taken.

The offense is in good shape, especially if we do get a commit from one more offensive lineman.

The defense worries me.

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 11-08-2019

(11-08-2019, 12:11 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  We do have a pretty highly rated walk-on at DT as well.

Logan Berzins is an OL; 247 is wrong.


RE: Class of 2020 - OutsiderFan - 11-08-2019

(11-08-2019, 11:35 AM)BobK Wrote:  Possibles:
OL Rogers, OL Pogorelc, DL Keneley  as named by outsider and 4 more I believe including Smith.

Safe to assume some flips of guys currently committed elsewhere among those three beyond Smith?  Can't believe Smith is still a Stanford possibility, but would be cool to get. 

Shaw and Anderson must recognize how badly they need DL, LB, S, so have to think there is somebody lining up for each.


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 11-08-2019

(11-08-2019, 12:16 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  
(11-08-2019, 11:35 AM)BobK Wrote:  Possibles:
OL Rogers, OL Pogorelc, DL Keneley  as named by outsider and 4 more I believe including Smith.

Safe to assume some flips of guys currently committed elsewhere among those three beyond Smith?  Can't believe Smith is still a Stanford possibility, but would be cool to get. 

Shaw and Anderson must recognize how badly they need DL, LB, S, so have to think there is somebody lining up for each.

Yup. Except maybe not at LB. It's quite possibly '18 OL all over again, and being excused because we took 4 last class. Will bite us BAD.

FWIW I'm not counting LDS guys ('22) - of which there are a couple - as part of this class/those unnamed 3. Not sure if Bob is.


RE: Class of 2020 - Phogge - 11-08-2019

It at least SEEMS that position balance is screwed. At some point they need to find a stud ILB that can play immediately. The Domers are going to gash them.


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 11-08-2019

(11-08-2019, 12:16 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  
(11-08-2019, 12:11 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  We do have a pretty highly rated walk-on at DT as well.

Logan Berzins is an OL; 247 is wrong.

Thanks.  I thought he was an "or" and given the need I assumed we would push him towards the D side.  Guess not.  Regardless, as I said before, the D worries me.

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - BobK - 11-08-2019

I am counting LDS guys. Of course one may come immediately then go on a mission
We just offered an OL. There’s a reason for that


RE: Class of 2020 - Hulk01 - 11-08-2019

You don't sell services the way you sell products; they are radically different. 
(Thank God. I never could have written those books if they were quite similar.)
And you don't sell exclusive services (a limited number of college athletic scholarships to a HYPSM school)
the way you sell mass market services.
Plus Stanford football is neither a product or a service,
and it isn't actually sold.

This transaction is so different--sui generis, really--
that I apply very little of what I've learned from marketing and selling every other service
to the "selling" of colleges to targeted students.
The differences would take a long article.

And I was recruited, too, so I have experience from the recruit's angle.

Among other weird things, you are "selling" the person
on his fellow "buyers"--the other players on the team.
The players, in many cases, are far more critical to the "sale" than the coaches.

Again, it's a long article.  But in writing it,
I would apply my own ability to synthesize information, connect dots,
think critically, use logic, and my own experiences to draw my conclusions, too.

And thanks for not outing me.


RE: Class of 2020 - donkey687 - 11-08-2019

[/quote]

Yup. Except maybe not at LB. It's quite possibly '18 OL all over again, and being excused because we took 4 last class. Will bite us BAD.

FWIW I'm not counting LDS guys ('22) - of which there are a couple - as part of this class/those unnamed 3. Not sure if Bob is.
[/quote]

Missing out on this guy who was admitted and an assumed lean to Stanford, was a big loss. The rumor was that he had a girlfriend or something that he wanted to stay near.  https://hokiesports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9558  Ricky Miezkan was the late spring offeree to fill this spot so maybe Ricky will prove to have more upside, but we could sure use Hollifield this year.

Beside Hollifield, what recruits in the last 4 years were offered and admitted recruits that we couldn't convert that were big misses and could have helped us this year?  Borghi? Hilsinki? Who else?


RE: Class of 2020 - Papa John - 11-08-2019

Hulk, I would love it if you would expand upon your discussion in a new thread. I understand, of course, if you don't have the time for pro bono activity...