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RE: Class of 2020 - Goose - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 06:36 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  
(12-10-2019, 06:35 PM)Goose Wrote:  Does PWO status provide the same benefits in the admissions process as a full scholarship?

No.

That is anoter reason to want the scholarship even if you can afford the tuition (one way or another). Anything that helps admission odds is a good thing.


RE: Class of 2020 - cardcrimson - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 07:01 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(12-10-2019, 06:36 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  
(12-10-2019, 06:35 PM)Goose Wrote:  Does PWO status provide the same benefits in the admissions process as a full scholarship?

No.

That is anoter reason to want the scholarship even if you can afford the tuition (one way or another). Anything that helps admission odds is a good thing.

I don't think we offer sailing scholarships, do we? Methinks our former coach had some influence on the admissions process, even for non-scholarship applicants. I think the same can be said for USC's crew and water polo teams and UCLA's soccer team, right?


RE: Class of 2020 - CompSci87 - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 05:14 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  The complaint that such-and-such coach is a "lazy recruiter" is as old as recruiting.  I remember it being applied to Willingham when I was at Stanford (rumor had it that he preferred to take rounds on the Stanford golf course to recruiting), and I have certainly seen people make that accusation about Shaw.  I have seen enough anecdotal data about cases where our inability to identify a recruit early enough in the cycle, or our unwillingness to visit him, or to bring him in for a visit before "big visit" has potentially cost us said recruit to believe that we have not yet reached the point of diminishing returns on recruiting.  That the pool of 3*+ players who could get into Stanford is limited should call for more, not less effort on each, since there are fewer players to divide effort amongst, and each one is more valuable.

Now, all that being said, it is easy for us to sit here asking for someone else to do more work.  It's easy to ask somebody else to get on a plane, fly thousands of miles, be away from his family, stay at a crappy hotel, all to pretend to like some parents bland meatloaf and tell some 17-year-old how great they could be in Cardinal and White.  It's easy to ask for anther person to review yet more mind numbing film in the hopes of finding another diamond in the rough.  Yes, Shaw makes $5 million plus a year, and perhaps in that context it is not too much to ask him to take a couple more such trips a year.  And I very much believe that there is a lot of background work that could be made much more efficient in the entire recruiting process, so this is by no means written to suggest that Shaw has maximized what he can get out of recruiting.  But it is also worth reminding ourselves that Shaw has a young family, and as much as we would selfishly love it if he sacrificed them entirely and devoted every waking moment to football and recruiting, like anyone else he too is looking around for the right balance, and sometimes that might mean that he calls it a night and writes one less handwritten note to a recruit reaffirming our interest.

At least unlike the rest of us, he isn't wasting his time writing missives on an anonymous message board.

BC

Yep. It's also easy for us to assume a lot of things, like that spring official visits really would garner more admissible and committed recruits (Shaw had a lot to say about that in the recent interview). Or that if the coaches only wooed them harder, they would have been able to flip some recruits who went elsewhere. Or that the coaches aren't trying hard enough to identify potentially admissible recruits early and start to work them. (They certainly aren't just sitting back and waiting for recruits to come to them, as someone said above!)

But of course, surely you can always get better results by trying harder. So obviously they aren't trying hard enough, the lazy bums! ;-)


RE: Class of 2020 - OutsiderFan - 12-11-2019

My comment that Stanford's Football program has a "they find us" approach, comes straight from the lips of the one leading the program. Now, that may be an over simplification or too big of a generalization, but no other school in the land that competes for football championships has a coaching staff thinking that way even a little bit.

Personally, I'm not griping about not getting enough highly rated players like Cal fans continually moan about. I'm more concerned with just having some foresight to stock the roster with enough bodies to effectively compete.  Stanford is always going to have some very talented players, but when you aren't getting enough players at a certain position coming to you, you have to go out and find them.  Remember, Shaw famously stated that he wouldn't have camps out of state because "there is maybe one guy in Alabama" who is scholarship worthy and could get into Stanford. So you don't bother looking? Was Shaw aware of TE Evan Engram?  How about QB John Rhys Plumlee, both of whom had the academic chops for Stanford and both ended up at Ole Miss. If there are two examples I know of without putting in any effort to know, there must be many more.

Based on what I gather, if guys don't come to Stanford on their own dimes, usually more than once, they likely aren't being offered, unless can't miss prospects everyone wants. More offers can't possibly ever be a bad thing.  Shaw's mentality is he wants every offer to be committable. That's fine, but don't put yourself in a position where you are going to offer 4 potential DL, so when you miss on all 4, you have no DL in the class. 

Finally, I simply don't buy the idea that you can't tell someone who put in the work and committed, that someone better has come along so their offer is being pulled, up until signing day. Nothing is ever final until the contract is signed. This is just how the real world works. It would be a good lesson for a youngster to learn early in life that sometimes someone else better beats you for something you thought you had. The loyalty is suppose to be to the ones in the program and supporting it, not to those not officially in it yet.


RE: Class of 2020 - Mick - 12-11-2019

(12-11-2019, 05:12 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  My comment that Stanford's Football program has a "they find us" approach, comes straight from the lips of the one leading the program. Now, that may be an over simplification or too big of a generalization, but no other school in the land that competes for football championships has a coaching staff thinking that way even a little bit.

Personally, I'm not griping about not getting enough highly rated players like Cal fans continually moan about. I'm more concerned with just having some foresight to stock the roster with enough bodies to effectively compete.  Stanford is always going to have some very talented players, but when you aren't getting enough players at a certain position coming to you, you have to go out and find them.  Remember, Shaw famously stated that he wouldn't have camps out of state because "there is maybe one guy in Alabama" who is scholarship worthy and could get into Stanford. So you don't bother looking? Was Shaw aware of TE Evan Engram?  How about QB John Rhys Plumlee, both of whom had the academic chops for Stanford and both ended up at Ole Miss. If there are two examples I know of without putting in any effort to know, there must be many more.

Based on what I gather, if guys don't come to Stanford on their own dimes, usually more than once, they likely aren't being offered, unless can't miss prospects everyone wants. More offers can't possibly ever be a bad thing.  Shaw's mentality is he wants every offer to be committable. That's fine, but don't put yourself in a position where you are going to offer 4 potential DL, so when you miss on all 4, you have no DL in the class. 

Finally, I simply don't buy the idea that you can't tell someone who put in the work and committed, that someone better has come along so their offer is being pulled, up until signing day. Nothing is ever final until the contract is signed. This is just how the real world works. It would be a good lesson for a youngster to learn early in life that sometimes someone else better beats you for something you thought you had. The loyalty is suppose to be to the ones in the program and supporting it, not to those not officially in it yet.

Different sport, but Stanford missed out on Fred Couples because of that attitude.


RE: Class of 2020 - Phogge - 12-11-2019

Just what Stanford needs is a Plumlee. Anybody have hoops memories?


RE: Class of 2020 - BobK - 12-11-2019

Screw the Plumlees. :)


RE: Class of 2020 - Goose - 12-11-2019

(12-11-2019, 05:12 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Finally, I simply don't buy the idea that you can't tell someone who put in the work and committed, that someone better has come along so their offer is being pulled, up until signing day. Nothing is ever final until the contract is signed. This is just how the real world works. It would be a good lesson for a youngster to learn early in life that sometimes someone else better beats you for something you thought you had. The loyalty is suppose to be to the ones in the program and supporting it, not to those not officially in it yet.

Using your "real world" analogy, it does happen. Some companies make the following pitch to potential vendors. "You design the part, and do the NRE to build a prototype. If it works, we will give you a contract to build then for us." If the vendor then shows up with a working model, and the company says "Sorry, we already contracted with Y because we like their model better", there is nothing you can do. However, if a company does that, the word gets out, and next time the vendors as a group say "No deal, we heard what you did to company Z. No free NRE, cash now or we don't compete." That is the real world. I have seen it. Shaw isn't doing this just to be a nice guy. He knows that once your reputation is established as not a reliable partner, getting people to bid on your jobs becomes impossible.

Sometimes companies try to protect their reputation by being up-front and telling vendors there are multiple solicitations and no commitment to buy even if the vendor builds a prototype. In those cases, the vendors look around at the competition and decide whether to invest in doing the NRE. The strong vendors generally say no, because they know they don't have to do so. The desperate may want to take up the offer, but they usually don't have the money to do so without a firm guarantee of business. There may be a vendor who intended to do the NRE anyway for their own purposes that will bid, but that isn't often the case. Only when the company requesting the free NRE has a monopoly or is totally dominant in the field does this approach work at all, and even then, strong vendors often no bid.

So, in the real world, if you are a sleazeball, finding reliable vendors will become impossible very quickly. If you are up-front about your intentions, you will get polite "No bids", and also no parts. Either way, it is difficult to do business under those conditions. If all the vendor is expected to do is put together a paper proposal, yes, the playing field is level and there is no obligation to buy. If, OTOH, free NRE (in the form ot AP classes and multiple attempts at the SAT) is required, most guys will "no bid" unless they have a known reliable partner who will follow through with an order if they deliver a working prototype.


RE: Class of 2020 - BobK - 12-11-2019

https://twitter.com/stanfordrivals/status/1204984646938714112?s=21

Big commit


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 12-11-2019



Sorely needed.


RE: Class of 2020 - newguy - 12-11-2019

with the departure of Jovan Swann, and with Mike Williams also going Swann's Way, this should help a lot on the D-Line.


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 12-11-2019

(12-11-2019, 10:59 PM)newguy Wrote:  with the departure of Jovan Swann, and with Mike Williams also going Swann's Way, this should help a lot on the D-Line.

Not soon enough though. That's the real problem. Back-to-back classes with just 1 DL each is not good at all and will bite us hard. Ideally want 3 this class, but if not then need 3 in '21.


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 12-11-2019

(12-11-2019, 11:21 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  
(12-11-2019, 10:59 PM)newguy Wrote:  with the departure of Jovan Swann, and with Mike Williams also going Swann's Way, this should help a lot on the D-Line.

Not soon enough though. That's the real problem. Back-to-back classes with just 1 DL each is not good at all and will bite us hard. Ideally want 3 this class, but if not then need 3 in '21.

Agreed, just getting two DL in a class is treading water.

Now about those linebackers...

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 12-11-2019

(12-11-2019, 11:36 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  
(12-11-2019, 11:21 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  
(12-11-2019, 10:59 PM)newguy Wrote:  with the departure of Jovan Swann, and with Mike Williams also going Swann's Way, this should help a lot on the D-Line.

Not soon enough though. That's the real problem. Back-to-back classes with just 1 DL each is not good at all and will bite us hard. Ideally want 3 this class, but if not then need 3 in '21.

Agreed, just getting two DL in a class is treading water.

Now about those linebackers...

BC

I don't think you're gonna be a very happy camper, BC.

Also, let me quickly amend my statement: we need 2-3 DL every year. Period.


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 12-12-2019

Sadly, I’ve known things weren’t looking good there since the summer.

We need:
2-3 DL
3-4 LB
3-4 DBs

Every... damned... year.

BC


RE: Class of 2020 - OutsiderFan - 12-12-2019

I read somewhere DT Tui Tuipulotu needs to re-take an SAT and will commit in Feb if his score gets him admitted. Otherwise, he will be Berkeley-bound.

So 3 scholarship DL are possible in this class, and Berzins would be 4 DL bodies.


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 12-12-2019

(12-12-2019, 04:29 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I read somewhere DT Tui Tuipulotu needs to re-take an SAT and will commit in Feb if his score gets him admitted. Otherwise, he will be Berkeley-bound.

So 3 scholarship DL are possible in this class, and Berzins would be 4 DL bodies.

Wow, that's good to know and somewhat encouraging.

Berzins is an OL (247 is wrong), but we have a "high-quality" PWO DL target named Zephron Lester who has offers from Army, UMass, and Temple.


RE: Class of 2020 - SamuelMcF - 12-12-2019



Another PWO commit


RE: Class of 2020 - BostonCard - 12-12-2019

Hey, it's a linebacker!

Maybe we'll have a linebacking core made up of preferred walk-ons.

BC


rich_matta2@yahoo.com - CardinalSagehen - 12-12-2019

(12-12-2019, 11:28 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote:  
(12-12-2019, 04:29 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I read somewhere DT Tui Tuipulotu needs to re-take an SAT and will commit in Feb if his score gets him admitted. Otherwise, he will be Berkeley-bound.

So 3 scholarship DL are possible in this class, and Berzins would be 4 DL bodies.

Wow, that's good to know and somewhat encouraging.

Berzins is an OL (247 is wrong), but we have a "high-quality" PWO DL target named Zephron Lester who has offers from Army, UMass, and Temple.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what kind of SAT score is required for a football player to be admitted? Is there a firm cut-off at some point, or is it a sliding scale, taken into account along with other academic factors?  How much higher do we think Stanford's SAT cut-off would be than, say, Cal's?  

Each case is different, but you can imagine some cases where it seems a shame to lose a guy that works incredibly hard, takes his APs and posts a great GPA in honors classes... all due to a test score.