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Total BS? or Truth? - OutsiderFan - 05-01-2019

https://n.rivals.com/news/nfl-draft-breaking-down-the-six-undrafted-five-stars-on-offense

Rivals Recruiting guru Mike Farrell, who usually has been pretty Stanford-friendly claims the reason Trent Irwin wasn't drafted is because he went to Stanford and played in Shaw's offense.  Curiously, none of the other players featured in a quick story about Rivals 5 stars on offense who weren't drafted, are said to have chosen the wrong schools.

Irwin was certainly a good route runner, but the fact is JJAW was a better WR than Irwin. This isn't to say Irwin couldn't have been drafted because JJAW was.  I just don't think Irwin had the athletic ability or production the NFL would want to see from someone they are spending draft capital on, and it's a little specious to claim if Irwin went to ASU he would have been drafted.  I mean why didn't Brady White get drafted then also? Oh, I know, he never played because he was beaten out by others who turned out to be better.  

Thoughts?

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - CardinalSagehen - 05-01-2019

I agree with you - Farrell’s argument that Trenton “chose the wrong school” between ASU and Stanford couldn’t be any dumber.  

1) Irwin would not have been better off across from N’Keal Harry at ASU - this ignores that JJ was pretty good in his own right and was drafted only a bit lower than Harry.  

2) Stanford was 2nd in passing yards last season in the PAC 12, while ASU was 6th. Despite our “run-heavy” offense, as Farrell put it, Irwin generally had plenty of opportunities. He even returned punts.  

3) Probably most importantly, any commentary on why Trenton was not drafted at least ought to mention that he tore his knee in his last game and couldn’t run or participate athletically in his Pro Day.  Who’s to say he wouldn’t have posted a 40 time that could have helped him dispel myths and stereotypes? But he never received that opportunity. I suppose Farrell is quite confident that Irwin wouldn’t have been drafted anyway, and that’s probably true, but it’s crazy not to mention the injury.  

4) Lastly, although Farrell isn’t paid to care about such things, in real life the 40-year decision matters and the degree will open more doors for Irwin. This is particularly important for a guy on the bubble of an NFL career.  

I don’t know him personally, but I’m fairly certain that if you asked Trenton himself, he would not express any inkling of regret over passing on ASU in favor of Stanford.  

He might wish, however, that the Cal DB hadn’t dove at the outside of his knee.  It wasn’t a dirty play, but it was certainly consequential... and it will continue to affect him now as he pursues the NFL at less than his full capacity.

lex24 - lex24 - 05-01-2019

Total BS. Irwin wasn’t drafted because he doesn’t have NFL speed. And he’s not a quick off the line slot guy. I think he has a shot. Because he runs great routes. And tremendous hands. How many passes did he drop his entire Stanford career? Seriously, I can’t remember any. I’m sure he dropped a couple. But very very few.

RE: lex24 - JohnR34231 - 05-02-2019

(05-01-2019, 10:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:  Total BS.  Irwin wasn’t drafted because he doesn’t have NFL speed. And he’s not a quick off the line slot guy. I think he has a shot. Because he runs great routes. And tremendous hands. How many passes did he drop his entire Stanford career?  Seriously, I can’t remember any. I’m sure he dropped a couple. But very very few.

That was always my impression of Irwin. A crisp route runner with good hands who didn't have the speed or the size to get NFL scouts salivating. We'll see how he does in the NFL; I certainly wish him well.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - Goose - 05-02-2019

(05-01-2019, 10:02 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote:  3) Probably most importantly, any commentary on why Trenton was not drafted at least ought to mention that he tore his knee in his last game and couldn’t run or participate athletically in his Pro Day.  Who’s to say he wouldn’t have posted a 40 time that could have helped him dispel myths and stereotypes? But he never received that opportunity. I suppose Farrell is quite confident that Irwin wouldn’t have been drafted anyway, and that’s probably true, but it’s crazy not to mention the injury.  

For sure the injury was a determining factor. Irwin was at best a late-round draft choice. Injured, it made no sense to use a draft pick on him, because he probably would be available as a UDFA anyway. Irwin wasn't NFL fast before the injury. If he comes back 100% he still wouldn't be. He will have to prove (as others have) that he can contribute anyway. However, the NFL teams will wait and see if that happens. Not everyone recovers 100%

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - OutsiderFan - 05-02-2019

I wasn't even factoring in Irwin's injury.

What kind of injury did he sustain?

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - 82lsju - 05-02-2019

(05-02-2019, 09:20 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I wasn't even factoring in Irwin's injury.

What kind of injury did he sustain?

Quote:Neither senior will play in the Sun Bowl against Pitt on Dec. 31, so their college careers are over. Love, who has been hampered by ankle injuries for a season and a half, is having a medical procedure, Shaw said. Irwin sustained an unspecified injury in the first quarter of the Cal game.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesports/article/Stanford-s-Shaw-Love-and-Irwin-are-going-to-13484343.php

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - JohnR34231 - 05-02-2019

(05-02-2019, 09:20 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I wasn't even factoring in Irwin's injury.

What kind of injury did he sustain?

It was a knee injury; I believe someone said a while ago on the Cardboard it was an ACL tear.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - Phogge - 05-02-2019

CIA's most western outpost on the Continent is the football office. Fewer leaks than Langley.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - winflop - 05-02-2019

(05-02-2019, 09:20 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  I wasn't even factoring in Irwin's injury.

What kind of injury did he sustain?

Tore his MCL. Sometimes an MCL injury doesn't require surgery but his was more severe and did.

I think he will make a lot of teams regret not spending a 6th or 7th round pick on him. He'll never be a star but I think he can develop into a very productive possession receiver.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - Goose - 05-02-2019

(05-02-2019, 05:47 PM)winflop Wrote:  I think he will make a lot of teams regret not spending a 6th or 7th round pick on him.

Nope. GMs take lots of heat for drafting star players that are injured. Drafting a player who is hurt and not really a star is the kind of thing that gets you fired, or at least generates hostile media questions.

Quote:He'll never be a star but I think he can develop into a very productive possession receiver.

I agree with you. Somebody will get lucky here. I think he will be very serviceable as a "possession" receiver, just as he was at Stanford. When that happens, the team that has him will be happy and the teams that don't will say "who knew?"

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - OutsiderFan - 05-03-2019

Another angle to Farrell’s ridiculous claim Irwin went to the wrong school, is somewhat related to the 40 year decision angle. Everything I could gather, suggested Irwin loved being at Stanford. How can someone say someone else made a mistake when that person being criticized loved his experience?

I believe Bryce Love made a mistake not declaring for draft after Junior year, assuming he wanted to maximize his earning potential. But I’m also the first to say if he didn’t value money as much as he did finishing at Stanford with his teammates, who am I to judge him?

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - JohnR34231 - 05-03-2019

(05-03-2019, 04:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Another angle to Farrell’s ridiculous claim Irwin went to the wrong school, is somewhat related to the 40 year decision angle. Everything I could gather, suggested Irwin loved being at Stanford. How can someone say someone else made a mistake when that person being criticized loved his experience?

I believe Bryce Love made a mistake not declaring for draft after Junior year, assuming he wanted to maximize his earning potential. But I’m also the first to say if he didn’t value money as much as he did finishing at Stanford with his teammates, who am I to judge him?

Yeah, it's kind of refreshing to see that some people are motivated by other things besides the almighty dollar.
Also if he succeeds in becoming a doctor as he anticipates he's not exactly going to be living below the poverty line.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - stupac2 - 05-03-2019

(05-02-2019, 07:45 PM)Goose Wrote:  Nope. GMs take lots of heat for drafting star players that are injured. Drafting a player who is hurt and not really a star is the kind of thing that gets you fired, or at least generates hostile media questions.

I mean, I guess it can, but didn't some team (I think the Titans) take a guy in the first round who tore his ACL this year and is widely considered a redshirt? Sure, he was a top-10 pick or whatever before that, but teams can do this.

Also, no one with any sense is ever going to give a GM heat over what they do with a 7th round pick. Those are functionally worthless, you're straight-up gambling at that point. It probably makes more sense to use it on an injured player who might've otherwise been worth a 4th than to use it on a healthy guy who's going to get cut after preseason.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - Goose - 05-03-2019

(05-03-2019, 08:26 AM)stupac2 Wrote:  I mean, I guess it can, but didn't some team (I think the Titans) take a guy in the first round who tore his ACL this year and is widely considered a redshirt? Sure, he was a top-10 pick or whatever before that, but teams can do this.

Also, no one with any sense is ever going to give a GM heat over what they do with a 7th round pick. Those are functionally worthless, you're straight-up gambling at that point. It probably makes more sense to use it on an injured player who might've otherwise been worth a 4th than to use it on a healthy guy who's going to get cut after preseason.

Probably so, but Irwin wasn't close to a fourth before he was hurt. He probably was looking at maybe a 6-7, but most probably an UFDA. Also, it doesn't require having any sense to bitch about the GM of your favorite team.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - Vandelay - 05-03-2019

Irwin is not an NFL caliber WR and I can think of at least 20 Pac-12 WR's in recent years who were better than Irwin and also undrafted.  Frankly, I'm a little surprised that he even got signed as UDFA.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - Mick - 05-04-2019

NFL assessment of Trent Irwin:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/trenton-irwin?id=32194952-5762-9310-4b26-60a860d74b06

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - Goose - 05-04-2019

(05-04-2019, 07:28 AM)Mick Wrote:  NFL assessment of Trent Irwin:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/trenton-irwin?id=32194952-5762-9310-4b26-60a860d74b06

I think this assessment is just about right. He may be a little better than they give him credit for, but he is far from a lock to get a roster spot. Hopefully, his intangibles will push him up a few notches.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - OutsiderFan - 05-04-2019

Over the last couple seasons I thought Irwin looked too big and wasn't as fluid as he was when smaller.

RE: Total BS? or Truth? - Mick - 05-05-2019

(05-04-2019, 10:32 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Over the last couple seasons I thought Irwin looked too big and wasn't as fluid as he was when smaller.

Thought the same about Bryce Love, tbh...