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Attendance - CowboyIndian - 09-26-2019

Anyone wringing their hands over our attendance need only take a glance at this morning's Chronicle. There are SIXTEEN stories in the online sports section....ZERO of which discuss college football, not Stanford, not Kal nor SJSU. I don't think it's just our offense keeping folks away.

RE: Attendance - AlbanyCardinal - 09-26-2019

(09-26-2019, 08:41 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  Anyone wringing their hands over our attendance need only take a glance at this morning's Chronicle. There are SIXTEEN stories in the online sports section....ZERO of which discuss college football, not Stanford, not Kal nor SJSU. I don't think it's just our offense keeping folks away.

I sometimes wonder how much longer we'll have college football in the Bay Area. I know that the youth leagues have been hit hard, for instance, but I wonder if your point about college football attendance is part of the same discussion. To a certain extent, this is a national discussion (and phenomenon), but the Bay Area seems especially predisposed to feel ambivalent about this sport. I have an old friend long connected with the Stanford medical school, who thinks the program's days are numbered, and that Stanford University will lead the charge at some point down the road. I wonder. [I have read and re-read my post and think it's free of any and all Freudian slips, Cowboy.]

RE: Attendance - Believer - 09-26-2019

(09-26-2019, 09:06 AM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote:  
(09-26-2019, 08:41 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  Anyone wringing their hands over our attendance need only take a glance at this morning's Chronicle. There are SIXTEEN stories in the online sports section....ZERO of which discuss college football, not Stanford, not Kal nor SJSU. I don't think it's just our offense keeping folks away.

I sometimes wonder how much longer we'll have college football in the Bay Area. I know that the youth leagues have been hit hard, for instance, but I wonder if your point about college football attendance is part of the same discussion. To a certain extent, this is a national discussion (and phenomenon), but the Bay Area seems especially predisposed to feel ambivalent about this sport. I have an old friend long connected with the Stanford medical school, who thinks the program's days are numbered, and that Stanford University will lead the charge at some point down the road. I wonder. [I have read and re-read my post and think it's free of any and all Freudian slips, Cowboy.]

I attended my first Stanford game in the early 80’s.  We sat wherever we wanted.  And that was against USC. It’s Bay Area sports and it’s always been the same. Attendance will come and go with every single sports team.

RE: Attendance - AlbanyCardinal - 09-26-2019

(09-26-2019, 10:23 AM)Believer Wrote:  
(09-26-2019, 09:06 AM)AlbanyCardinal Wrote:  
(09-26-2019, 08:41 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  Anyone wringing their hands over our attendance need only take a glance at this morning's Chronicle. There are SIXTEEN stories in the online sports section....ZERO of which discuss college football, not Stanford, not Kal nor SJSU. I don't think it's just our offense keeping folks away.

I sometimes wonder how much longer we'll have college football in the Bay Area. I know that the youth leagues have been hit hard, for instance, but I wonder if your point about college football attendance is part of the same discussion. To a certain extent, this is a national discussion (and phenomenon), but the Bay Area seems especially predisposed to feel ambivalent about this sport. I have an old friend long connected with the Stanford medical school, who thinks the program's days are numbered, and that Stanford University will lead the charge at some point down the road. I wonder. [I have read and re-read my post and think it's free of any and all Freudian slips, Cowboy.]

I attended my first Stanford game in the early 80’s.  We sat wherever we wanted.  And that was against USC. It’s Bay Area sports and it’s always been the same. Attendance will come and go with every single sports team.

Same, but this feels different. Maybe I'm just getting older and my perspective has shifted. But I'd also say that the game, and spectating it, is not as carefree as it used to be. I feel there's a burden to being a football fan today that never entered the equation previously. And my sense is that the Bay Area feels this more acutely than other pockets of the country.

RE: Attendance - Phogge - 09-26-2019

We are playing eight man football now at Tomales High. Many more for soccer.

RE: Attendance - 76lsjumb - 09-26-2019

(09-26-2019, 11:00 AM)Phogge Wrote:  We are playing eight man football now at Tomales High. Many more for soccer.

Well, with all our injuries, Stanford will likely be playing eight man football within a few weeks, too...

:-)      [note smiley face, which means this post isn't intended to be taken too seriously nor to be uncivil...]

RE: Attendance - AlbanyCardinal - 09-26-2019

(09-26-2019, 11:00 AM)Phogge Wrote:  We are playing eight man football now at Tomales High. Many more for soccer.

Yep. I'm pretty sure more h.s. boys in the Bay Area are playing lacrosse than football. The local h.s. team in my town is close to shuttering its program for good.

RE: Attendance - BobK - 09-26-2019

Average paid attendance thus far: 38K. Yes paid still almost 80% of capacity.

RE: Attendance - OutsiderFan - 09-26-2019

Well, not like I'm reading any local newspapers for anything these days. I don't live in the Bay Area any more, but I don't read the local papers in Hartford either. The Athletic had a great story about San Jose State's upset and Stewart Mandel wrote extensively about Cal this week, also in the Athletic.

RE: Attendance - Embo - 09-26-2019

(09-26-2019, 08:41 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  Anyone wringing their hands over our attendance need only take a glance at this morning's Chronicle. There are SIXTEEN stories in the online sports section....ZERO of which discuss college football, not Stanford, not Kal nor SJSU. I don't think it's just our offense keeping folks away.

I'll just add this anecdote.  It goes back to what IMHO may have been the most anticipated and most watched game at Stanford Stadium:  #5 Stanford vs. #3 Oregon, November 2013, on a Thursday night, on ESPN.  My wife and I have a tiny cottage in Mendocino that she likes to visit often.  There was a couple who rented the cottage next to ours.  They told my wife that they had gotten tickets to that Thursday night game, months in advance.  They were regular folks - she a waitress, he a commercial fisherman.  They had no ties whatsoever to either Stanford or Oregon.  And the drive from Mendocino to Palo Alto is by no means a quick and straight jaunt.  Why did they attend?  Because they knew this was going to be really big deal.
The bottom line is, have a product that people want to see, and the tickets will sell themselves.

RE: Attendance - Phogge - 09-26-2019

Maybe, maybe not. The A's have a terrific young club with the best left side infield in MLB, lots of power and are making a playoff run. Average attendance 20,521 and that's a paid total.

RE: Attendance - gailtate - 09-27-2019

(09-26-2019, 01:59 PM)Embo Wrote:  
(09-26-2019, 08:41 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  Anyone wringing their hands over our attendance need only take a glance at this morning's Chronicle. There are SIXTEEN stories in the online sports section....ZERO of which discuss college football, not Stanford, not Kal nor SJSU. I don't think it's just our offense keeping folks away.

I'll just add this anecdote.  It goes back to what IMHO may have been the most anticipated and most watched game at Stanford Stadium:  #5 Stanford vs. #3 Oregon, November 2013, on a Thursday night, on ESPN.  My wife and I have a tiny cottage in Mendocino that she likes to visit often.  There was a couple who rented the cottage next to ours.  They told my wife that they had gotten tickets to that Thursday night game, months in advance.  They were regular folks - she a waitress, he a commercial fisherman.  They had no ties whatsoever to either Stanford or Oregon.  And the drive from Mendocino to Palo Alto is by no means a quick and straight jaunt.  Why did they attend?  Because they knew this was going to be really big deal.
The bottom line is, have a product that people want to see, and the tickets will sell themselves.

You nailed it, Embo. Build It (an irresistibly watchable team) And They Will Come. I've watched this happen on the Farm since October 10, 1970. That one was pretty big, too.

RE: Attendance - baymeadows3408 - 09-27-2019

A brief overview of my background:

I grew up in the Bay Area. Was raised a Stanford fan because my dad, who grew up in Palo Alto, was a fan from childhood himself. I attended a different Pac-10/12 school and have lived primarily on the East Coast since 2008, but I did live in the Bay Area during the 2014 and 2015 seasons.

Anyway, I'm bearish when it comes to Stanford's ability to gain any sort of serious following among Bay Area sports fans. There are just too many obstacles.

1. Few people are admitted into Stanford, which means there's a small base of alumni fans.
2. Even fewer of these graduates stay in the Bay Area upon graduation.
3. There are so many other sports options in the Bay Area, and the general culture of the area focuses on professional sports. 49ers, Raiders (well, for now), Giants, A's, Warriors, Sharks. Very few markets have as many professional sports teams as the Bay Area.
4. In addition to sports, there are so many other entertainment options.
5. Stanford's elite status probably is a turn off. Why root for Stanford if you had no chance of being admitted or if your children have no chance of being admitted?
6. Stanford has close ties with the tech culture, and there has been a backlash against tech culture in recent years.
7. As the cost of living has gone up, a lot of Bay Area natives have left. These people may still follow Bay Area teams, but they can no longer attend the games. And the new arrivals bring their different allegiances with them.

I think some of these factors work against all Bay Area sports teams, not just Stanford and the other college programs. But I also think Stanford has some unique challenges. I never got the sense that Stanford football was truly part of the Bay Area zeitgeist during the 2010-2016 seasons.

RE: Attendance - cardcrimson - 09-27-2019

(09-27-2019, 08:56 AM)baymeadows3408 Wrote:  A brief overview of my background:

I grew up in the Bay Area. Was raised a Stanford fan because my dad, who grew up in Palo Alto, was a fan from childhood himself. I attended a different Pac-10/12 school and have lived primarily on the East Coast since 2008, but I did live in the Bay Area during the 2014 and 2015 seasons.

Anyway, I'm bearish when it comes to Stanford's ability to gain any sort of serious following among Bay Area sports fans. There are just too many obstacles.

1. Few people are admitted into Stanford, which means there's a small base of alumni fans.
2. Even fewer of these graduates stay in the Bay Area upon graduation.
3. There are so many other sports options in the Bay Area, and the general culture of the area focuses on professional sports. 49ers, Raiders (well, for now), Giants, A's, Warriors, Sharks. Very few markets have as many professional sports teams as the Bay Area.
4. In addition to sports, there are so many other entertainment options.
5. Stanford's elite status probably is a turn off. Why root for Stanford if you had no chance of being admitted or if your children have no chance of being admitted?
6. Stanford has close ties with the tech culture, and there has been a backlash against tech culture in recent years.
7. As the cost of living has gone up, a lot of Bay Area natives have left. These people may still follow Bay Area teams, but they can no longer attend the games. And the new arrivals bring their different allegiances with them.

I think some of these factors work against all Bay Area sports teams, not just Stanford and the other college programs. But I also think Stanford has some unique challenges. I never got the sense that Stanford football was truly part of the Bay Area zeitgeist during the 2010-2016 seasons.

Fair points all. Add that the media pays little attention to Stanford sports. Even in the best days, KNBR and the Chronicle didn't cover a lot. Does Stanford have a sports marketing program?

RE: Attendance - baymeadows3408 - 09-27-2019

(09-27-2019, 09:16 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:  Fair points all. Add that the media pays little attention to Stanford sports. Even in the best days, KNBR and the Chronicle didn't cover a lot. Does Stanford have a sports marketing program?

It appears to be a chicken/egg scenario. Does nobody care about Stanford football because the media don't cover it, or do the media not cover Stanford football because nobody cares about it?

Gerhart, Harbaugh, Luck, and McCaffrey and McCaffrey, but it's hard to gain mindshare when the Warriors, Giants, and 49ers remain the focus of Bay Area sports fans. I would argue that the Giants and 49ers are the most popular teams in the area because they still attract a lot of attention when they are doing poorly. The Warriors are popular, but they have been a juggernaut for a few years now. They had a small-but-loyal following when they were perennial losers.

RE: Attendance - cardcrimson - 09-27-2019

Good marketing programs make you care about something more than you normally would or should. Great marketing programs make the product a must have or a must see. Quality of course is important, but in the case of college football, quality is more than just wins and losses.

Stanford has one of the best business schools in the world. One would think the local talent could create an event and atmosphere that is a must attend.

RE: Attendance - 81alum - 09-27-2019

The Bay Area is a lousy college football market.  I've heard most of these arguments with regard to San Jose State football too, and I bet you can find parallel threads over at Cal.  And they are all true.

Too many pro teams, other college teams, and other cultural events.  Plus the demographics of the local population is not supportive--we live in a highly diverse area where many cultural groups are not very interested in a sport with no international appeal, or perhaps in sports in general.    

To this I would add that Stanford is actually a very small university, when it comes to its undergraduate base.  San Jose State has 30k students and can't get more than a handful of them to turn out for its football games; imagine how much harder it is for Stanford with 6500 students.  Stanford's undergraduate student body is actually not that much bigger than some of the larger liberal arts colleges--the size of the graduate programs and of the campus and of the reputation can conceal this basic fact.  And that in turn--as has been pointed out--creates a much smaller alumni base than a large state university.  Then factor in the tendency for most alums to scatter across the world....it is a minor miracle when we DO have a good turnout.  Shrinking the stadium was the right thing to do.

As for the "just win baby" philosophy of attendance--every less-than-successful program lies to itself and says that attendance and finances will turn around just as soon as it starts winning.  They are not entirely wrong.  But the measure of a successful program ought to be one that retains a vibrant fan base in an average year--not just during the best of years.   Most teams, after all, are average.  And I guess that at this point we might all be relieved with a 6-6 season.

RE: Attendance - BobK - 09-27-2019

As I have have said for 10 years now do away with tv and attendance jumps.
That’s the only way.
If that’s what you want

RE: Attendance - rudruff - 09-27-2019

For me a lot of it has to do with convenience. I get that I am missing some of the spectacle by staying home, but I am trading that for no line at the bathroom, DVR control of entire game, and I can knock out some yardwork during halftime.

RE: Attendance - Phogge - 09-27-2019

My personal relationship with the program includes working with Liebendorfer, Murphy, Cavalli, Rose, Vasquez, Racsinski and George. Most were competent, a couple were outstanding and one was difficult in many ways.

Marketing in the old days consisted of news releases and press guides. The local schools had a champion for years at the Chronicle named Bill Leiser who loved college football and kept it on the front page. Of course there wasn't much else going on, just the tail end of the PCL season and the Niners at Kezar.

I watched a bit of Georgia/Domers and thought that if I was a good football player and offered by Georgia I'd sign as fast as I could. What a crowd. No marketing plan can ever make anything remotely close at Stanford. And anyway if there is a marketing plan afoot I must have missed it.