WBB: Attendance - Printable Version

WBB: Attendance - Printable Version

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WBB: Attendance - 81alum - 11-17-2019

The apparent decline in WBB attendance, despite this year's extremely talented and exciting team, was raised on another thread and I felt it deserved a separate discussion.

I went back and looked at the official attendance figures as far back as they are provided and found something interesting. This is average attendance at home games. Of course, they may have changed how they count attendance--at some point they might have counted ticket sales even if the tickets are unused. So I am not sure how that figures in to these totals.

19-20 2319 (so far, with just two weeknight games against inferior opponents)
18-19 3063
17-18 2865
16-17 3160
15-16 3207
14-15 3574
13-14 3463 Chiney's Senior year
12-13 4284 First Pac-12 Network year
11-12 4250 Nneka's Senior year
10-11 4839 Two Ogwumikes lead us to finals where we lose to A&M
9-10 4280
8-9 3953
7-8 4139 Wiggin's senior year return to final four and relevance

I wish that the stats went back much further. Perhaps someone can locate more.

My impression is that there was a marked decline from 4800 to 2800 beginning around the time the Pac 12 network initiated, which was also around the time the two Ogwumikes graduated. Was that causal or coincidental? I don't know. It seems to have taken about a year after the Pac 12 network initiated to see the big drop, as if 1000 people kept coming for a year until they decided to watch on TV instead. Chiney's senior year showed a big decline and so it was not just the lack of star-power that was the cause.

I have noticed for years that the weekday games get much worse attendance than the Sunday games, and the Sunday afternoon games get much better attendance than the Sunday evening games. I presume this is because nearly everyone who attends is from off campus and many have other commitments.

This year's attendance at two home games has been terrible, but it is early season and both those games were on awkward week nights. Tonight's game will be a somewhat better measure--on a Sunday and against a good opponent--but they put it at 5:00 which is not optimal rather than the more normal Sunday afternoon game. Those Sunday afternoon games would attract lots of school kids, people from retirement homes, etc. who may not attend a game held during the Sunday dinner hour. Hopefully we will do better tonight than 2319 sold tickets.

Looking ahead, the two games against Oregon were horribly scheduled for attendance--obviously TV choices. When we are up there we play them at 6 on a Thursday night. Given that Oregon sold 7000 season tickets they will probably be sold out despite the lousy time. On the other hand, Oregon comes here 6pm on a Monday night--we play no game on that Sunday so this was clearly held over a day for TV purposes. Ugh.

RE: WBB: Attendance - BobK - 11-17-2019

Wvb is at noon. Hard to play both at the same time :)

Pac 12 channel started before the O’s graduated

RE: WBB: Attendance - 81alum - 11-17-2019

(11-17-2019, 08:31 AM)BobK Wrote: Wvb is at noon. Hard to play both at the same time :)

Pac 12 channel started before the O’s graduated

Pac 12 channel (initiated Aug 15, 2012) started the year after Nneka graduated and just in time for Chiney's junior year. Attendance held up OK during that first Pac 12 channel year and declined in the second Pac 12 channel year, when Chiney was a senior. I'm not sure I have a good explanation for why that happened.

RE: WBB: Attendance - crackpot - 11-17-2019

This is my 25th season as a season ticket holder. Some observations:

Seems that there are a lot more tickets sold than people who attend in person. If you try to purchase tickets in the lower bowl 2,3,4 or 10, 11, 12, you'll find it nearly impossible. Yet as we saw on Thursday, most of those folks won't show up.
When tickets were shipped to your home, they included coupons for GA tickets you could give away to friends, increasing the fan base.
Tickets ain't cheap. Concessions ain't cheap.
Piped-in music makes me feel like I'm in Wal-Mart. If the LSJUMB is there (and geez, I hope it is), let 'em play.
I don't live on the Peninsula, so I might be wrong about this, but I see St. Mary's, Cal, and even USF advertising both their men's and women's teams.
Pac-12 Network doesn't make it easy to be a fan. They still haven't made a deal with DirecTV and probably won't in my lifetime. Heck, they sell advertising, they should be offering the Network to all carriers and let people stream for free. And make people WANT to go to a game. Make it so the in-person experience is always better. Even the Warriors in their bad years had great attendance in Oakland because (as they advertised then) it was "a great time out!"

I do miss the old FBC. For several years, I'd just pay my five bucks to attend and I'm terribly jealous of those who paid full dues 'cos those are still my favorite SWBB t-shirts. :P

The open practice on a weekday for $20 nearly sent me over the edge.

RE: WBB: Attendance - CompSci87 - 11-17-2019

Well, they did serve some good food at the open practice. It's a different approach than making it a free event.

RE: WBB: Attendance - WBB fan - 11-17-2019

(11-17-2019, 07:57 AM)81alum Wrote: The apparent decline in WBB attendance, despite this year's extremely talented and exciting team, was raised on another thread and I felt it deserved a separate discussion.

I went back and looked at the official attendance figures as far back as they are provided and found something interesting. This is average attendance at home games. Of course, they may have changed how they count attendance--at some point they might have counted ticket sales even if the tickets are unused. So I am not sure how that figures in to these totals.

19-20 2319 (so far, with just two weeknight games against inferior opponents)
18-19 3063
17-18 2865
16-17 3160
15-16 3160
14-15 3207
13-14 3463 Chiney's Senior year
12-13 4284 First Pac-12 Network year
11-12 4250 Nneka's Senior year
10-11 4839 Two Ogwumikes lead us to finals where we lose to A&M
9-10 4280
8-9 3953
7-8 4139 Wiggin's senior year return to final four and relevance

I wish that the stats went back much further. Perhaps someone can locate more.

My impression is that there was a marked decline from 4800 to 2800 beginning around the time the Pac 12 network initiated, which was also around the time the two Ogwumikes graduated. Was that causal or coincidental? I don't know. It seems to have taken about a year after the Pac 12 network initiated to see the big drop, as if 1000 people kept coming for a year until they decided to watch on TV instead. Chiney's senior year showed a big decline and so it was not just the lack of star-power that was the cause.

I have noticed for years that the weekday games get much worse attendance than the Sunday games, and the Sunday afternoon games get much better attendance than the Sunday evening games. I presume this is because nearly everyone who attends is from off campus and many have other commitments.

This year's attendance at two home games has been terrible, but it is early season and both those games were on awkward week nights. Tonight's game will be a somewhat better measure--on a Sunday and against a good opponent--but they put it at 5:00 which is not optimal rather than the more normal Sunday afternoon game. Those Sunday afternoon games would attract lots of school kids, people from retirement homes, etc. who may not attend a game held during the Sunday dinner hour. Hopefully we will do better tonight than 2319 sold tickets.

Looking ahead, the two games against Oregon were horribly scheduled for attendance--obviously TV choices. When we are up there we play them at 6 on a Thursday night. Given that Oregon sold 7000 season tickets they will probably be sold out despite the lousy time. On the other hand, Oregon comes here 6pm on a Monday night--we play no game on that Sunday so this was clearly held over a day for TV purposes. Ugh.

I'm glad you started this new thread, but it might be worth letting people know where the previous discussion was -- on the N Colorado - Stanford game thread. There are a lot of relevant comments there.

As for attendance, I've been going very faithfully to games since the 1989-90 season, the first season that Stanford offered season tix for women's basketball. (And the year of the 1st national championship). Attendance that year was routinely 5000 or more and many games were sell-outs. Attendance in the 5000-6000 range was typical for the next several years. The real decline began in the very late 90s, when the Stanford team was in a bit of a slump. Note also that in the 90s, when Stanford hosted NCAA games, many were near or total sell-outs. That has definitely not been the case in the last 10 years, including when Nnecka and Chiney were playing. There's more at play here than the Pac-12 network and dreadful scheduling of game times. See comments on the earlier thread -- to me, it seems as much a matter of the change in culture and sense of connection between the fans and the team.

RE: WBB: Attendance - BobK - 11-17-2019

Joan hope you saw my note. But the basketball yearbook when you arrive today

RE: WBB: Attendance - M T - 11-17-2019

I wish we also had records of season ticket and individual game prices. That affects attendance, esp. by groups.

For a Friday night game against OSU @ Stanford, end zone seats cost $18-35 while upper sideline costs $18-20.
For a Sunday game Stanford@OSU, end zone & upper sideline seats cost $9-16. [Oregon is sold out, so I couldn't get their face value prices.]
Stanford can adjust prices to increase attendance, if that was their goal.

Obviously, the best day for kids (& their parents) to show up is Sunday. Friday night may be second best (for younger kids; by high school, Friday night gets busy). Kids tend to have stuff happening on Saturday (sports, parties, extracurricular activities). Adults may have competing fan events (football, etc.) on the weekends & even weeknights. I don't think many Oregon fans have to choose between going to a pro game (fb, bb, ih, soccer, ...) and a college event. Indeed, I wonder how many hard-core sports fans in the Bay Area finds find their time & money all spent on pro sports, when, if they lived in an area without much pro-sports, they'd be at the college games. Indeed, the public awareness of the Bay Area college games is limited as the TV and newspapers pretty much only cover the pros. (Sharks started in 1991; Earthquakes in 1994)

I often notice how old the fans are at Maples. Some of that is certainly due to older people's lack of responsibilities for taking children to events or getting them to bed, as well as a higher percentage of those without work the next day.

In 1995, if you had to choose between watching a, say, 49ers game on TV or going to a college game, you could record the 49ers for later playback as you had to attend the college game if you wanted to see it at all. Now you might choose to record the college game and watch the 49ers live on TV, rather than attend either. (My brother-in-law, a Seahawks fan, flew from San Jose back to Washington the day of the 49ers-Seahawk game. I asked why he didn't want to stay & try to get tickets. "The best seat in the stadium is the one in front of my TV.")

As for me personally, I hadn't bought any season tickets until last year. I (still) find that various reasons (illness, out of town, competing events) have kept me from attending about half the WVB games for which I have tickets. That makes the season tickets a lot more expensive than face value (yeah, I could resell them, but that's a hassle). The same thing is true for the other person from work with whom I bought a pair of season WVB tickets. Same thing is true for the couple that sit next to us. Our seats have been empty when we're unable to attend.

RE: WBB: Attendance - crackpot - 11-17-2019

Weren't we supposed to get a discount on this year's season tickets because of cancellation of the OSU game last November?

And weren't we supposed to get a free ticket to another game last season, too (because of the cancellation)?

I don't recall seeing either.

My personal cost history:

2010 - upper $270 each for 3 tickets
2011 - upper $281 each for 3 tickets
2012 - upper $262 each for 3 tickets
2013 - upper $280 for 1 ticket
2014 - upper $299 for 1 ticket (later got moved to lower, not sure the diff)
2015 - lower $389 for 1 ticket - YOWZA. And in MAY
2016 - lower $389 for 1 ticket in APRIL

Those upper seats used to be a row of six once upon a team, divided among 8 people and 3 babies. Now it's just me.

RE: WBB: Attendance - Jskass - 11-17-2019

will be interesting to see if anything changes now that we have 2 local kids in the freshman class (and a dunking star). Stanford should be working hard to capitalize on it!

RE: WBB: Attendance - 81alum - 11-17-2019

(11-17-2019, 12:37 PM)crackpot Wrote: Weren't we supposed to get a discount on this year's season tickets because of cancellation of the OSU game last November?

And weren't we supposed to get a free ticket to another game last season, too (because of the cancellation)?

I don't recall seeing either.

I asked about the free ticket last year and they offered a free ticket to any game last season. But the free ticket wouldn't be anywhere near my season ticket so I didn't bother. I presume it was a general admission but I did not get that far. I think it would have been a better deal for non season ticket holders. I don't remember hearing about a discount for this year's tickets.

RE: WBB: Attendance - biketoc - 11-17-2019

I do remember something about the credit for the cancelled game on the renewal form, but I don't remember how much it was.

This is a great thread (and going back to the N. Colorado thread). There are many factors that seem to have effected attendance. We have been attending as season ticket holders since 2010-11 season, but attended many games in the 7 years prior to that. The student attendance has seemed to improve a bit over the last few seasons, however it is no where near where it should be on a regular basis. What is really sad is that even when there are so few people there, the red coats often are really strict about where the students sit. Some games it is warranted, but other times it is just silly.

Overall, I think the ticket prices are too high. Most of us here have attended games on the road and everywhere else the cost of the ticket is less. There seems to be very little promotion of the team. Even in the off years, this team has been very successful yet you would never know it. While we do see elementary and middle school basketball teams on the weekends, there just aren't enough. Heck, I would practically give away tickets to these groups. You could fill up Maples. You know most of the kids would be buying food or t-shirts when they are there. If it is a good experience the parents will bring them back and pay for tickets!

I agree with others that the interaction with FBG and season ticket holders has diminished over the years. The open practice on a Friday afternoon this year really reflects a lack of need to engage your fans (customers) where and when it is convenient. That was the first open practice I have missed in 7 years.

I am glad Joan started this discussion. I hope someone from the athletic department reads through these comments.

RE: WBB: Attendance - crackpot - 11-17-2019

Found the email re: the OSU game:

You will receive a voucher redeemable for any future 2018-19 home game (one voucher per membership), plus an additional $10 off your 2019-20 membership price, in addition to the loyalty price.

<shrug/>

RE: WBB: Attendance - oldalum - 11-17-2019

Might be helpful to put the attendance decline in context of the decrease in attendance for football and men's basketball across the country and at Stanford in particular: is Stanford WBB's drop greater or less? (I don't know)

(11-17-2019, 12:17 PM)M T Wrote: various reasons (illness, out of town, competing events) have kept me from attending about half the WVB games for which I have tickets.

Next year we will be splitting tickets with another couple for that reason. You can move tickets from games you can't or don't want to attend to games you want to attend, albeit to seating not as good (but can usually move closer).

RE: WBB: Attendance - StanFanFam13 - 11-17-2019

Two thoughts:

First, while I appreciate the point raised on the Northern Colorado thread that student attendance has never been a major factor at games, the athletic department could definitely be doing more in this regard. As a recent grad who frequently sat in the (mostly empty) student section during my undergrad and grad school years at Stanford, it was always startling to see what short shrift WBB was given in promotion compared to the (less successful) men's team. A recent year in which students attending the men's game were promised entry into a lottery to win an iPhone, iPad, and other goodies comes to mind as a particularly egregious example; I can't recall any such giveaway ever being run for the women. I sent Stanford Athletics a note about this that I'm sure disappeared into the void.

Second, a lack of player-fan interaction has been cited as a factor in the attendance drop-off. I don't dispute this but do believe it's worth thinking critically about how much we expect of players who are not only full-time students but also young women living in a world where social media and other exposure makes it easy for fans to assume a level of familiarity that isn't there (and may be uncomfortable). I should say that I've always experienced the crowd in Maples (and the posters on this board) to be respectful of the players. However, a quick look at comments on the players' instagram photos illustrates some line-crossing comments from folks who they might believe are also up in the stands. Comments from fans on players' physical appearance, speculation about their personal lives, etc. can feel... icky. It's incumbent upon all of us to behave in a way that builds trust and a willingness to engage.

RE: WBB: Attendance - martyup - 11-17-2019

Good manners on social media . . . that ship has sailed. I just completely avoid it. Socializing should be face-to-face, not face to smartphone.

RE: WBB: Attendance - M T - 11-17-2019

(11-17-2019, 07:05 PM)StanFanFam13 Wrote: Second, a lack of player-fan interaction has been cited as a factor in the attendance drop-off. I don't dispute this but do believe it's worth thinking critically about how much we expect of players who are not only full-time students but also young women living in a world where social media and other exposure makes it easy for fans to assume a level of familiarity that isn't there (and may be uncomfortable).

I don't know about WBB, but one of the highlights (that I almost missed (thanks BobK for helping me!)) was the pre-season BBQ for WVB season ticket holders. At that event, one player sat with each picnic table (~6 fans) for ~5 minutes & then the players rotated. I think you got about 5 players total. The young ladies presented themselves well, and you got some feel of what they're like. That was a manageable fan-player interaction, which makes my appreciation of those players a bit deeper than just a name, number, and stats.

(Since I'm mentioning WVB on a WBB topic, I'll stray further afield. Did you notice Audriana (WVB) & Kennan (MBB) Fitzmorris waving the big Stanford flags during today's WBB game, as well as throwing T-shirts late in the game? They really seem to enjoy what they do (a tip-of-the-hat to their parents).)

RE: WBB: Attendance - chimera - 11-17-2019

(11-17-2019, 07:05 PM)StanFanFam13 Wrote: Two thoughts:

First, while I appreciate the point raised on the Northern Colorado thread that student attendance has never been a major factor at games, the athletic department could definitely be doing more in this regard. As a recent grad who frequently sat in the (mostly empty) student section during my undergrad and grad school years at Stanford, it was always startling to see what short shrift WBB was given in promotion compared to the (less successful) men's team. A recent year in which students attending the men's game were promised entry into a lottery to win an iPhone, iPad, and other goodies comes to mind as a particularly egregious example; I can't recall any such giveaway ever being run for the women. I sent Stanford Athletics a note about this that I'm sure disappeared into the void.

Second, a lack of player-fan interaction has been cited as a factor in the attendance drop-off. I don't dispute this but do believe it's worth thinking critically about how much we expect of players who are not only full-time students but also young women living in a world where social media and other exposure makes it easy for fans to assume a level of familiarity that isn't there (and may be uncomfortable). I should say that I've always experienced the crowd in Maples (and the posters on this board) to be respectful of the players. However, a quick look at comments on the players' instagram photos illustrates some line-crossing comments from folks who they might believe are also up in the stands. Comments from fans on players' physical appearance, speculation about their personal lives, etc. can feel... icky. It's incumbent upon all of us to behave in a way that builds trust and a willingness to engage.

I don't think we need more from the athletes. They need their time and I don't want to take any more of it. I do think the coaches could afford to spend a bit more time on fan interactions, maybe not to the degree they once did, but certainly more than now, which amounts to 10 minute pre-game chalk talks from the three assistant coaches, and a few minutes after three or four games for the Behind-the-Bench events. To me it seems they don't really want to do it much, in contrast to the excellent chalk talks we get from Head WVB Coach Hambly, who seems to genuinely want to help fans understand the game. He presents info rather than just answering questions, and I've learned a lot about volleyball from him and from previous Head WVB Coach Dunning, who was similarly enthusiastic about educating fans about the sport. The WVB Volleyball 101 event was also really great.

I hear from someone that knows that it is possible to have events on the practice court gym next door to Maples without needed to cover the court with tarp or anything, so that would not cost much and would be very welcome. Fans can be sorta like plants, we need some watering and tending to thrive (be good fans, show up to games, and advocate for non-fans to come to games and become fans).

RE: WBB: Attendance - 76lsjumb - 11-18-2019

I mentioned to someone at the table where one used to be able to pick up a roster sheet that it sure would be great if they were made available again. She told me [as previously mentioned here] that they weren't giving them out for "sustainability" reasons.

She then reached into a giant cardboard box full of hundreds of pompons made of red mylar strands mounted on plastic rods and asked if I wanted one... :-0

She did suggest that I let the marketing department know [and mentioned that several other people had also asked for them]. FWIW, there were a number of them distributed up and down the scorers' table.

RE: WBB: Attendance - M T - 11-18-2019

(11-18-2019, 12:42 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: I mentioned to someone at the table where one used to be able to pick up a roster sheet that it sure would be great if they were made available again. She told me [as previously mentioned here] that they weren't giving them out for "sustainability" reasons.

She then reached into a giant cardboard box full of hundreds of pompons made of red mylar strands mounted on plastic rods and asked if I wanted one... :-0

She did suggest that I let the marketing department know [and mentioned that several other people had also asked for them]. FWIW, there were a number of them distributed up and down the scorers' table.

I like your contrast with the pompons.... I'm sure you'll mention that.

I noticed someone left a (home-printed?) roster sheet high in the stands, along with a couple of pompons. I then saw another pair of what appeared to be roster sheets on the walkway (until a lady picked them up).

Last year, I suggested at a water polo match that they provide a recycle barrel so we fans could recycle the rosters. I guess they went one better than I wanted and stopped providing rosters. (While the water polo marquee now shows the roster, it doesn't have height, position, class, etc.).

I guess I'm a bit torn. I know our players in WBB & WVB (but not in MWP or WWP), so it really is to get to know the opponents. Do I need that? I don't know. I did look up the height of the UCLA WVB players during the game, but didn't dig down to the starters or the stats.

But, the paper rosters can also be advertisements for the next game, or other sports(!!), or even as revenue sources (advertise one of the sponsors, or some third party (a coupon for a free slice of pizza if a certain condition holds)). [My impression is that few of the Stanford sport events do much advertising of the other sports. Yeah, sometimes a team will come in, but rarely do you see advertising for another sport event, or even just the schedule of all sports posted. It is almost like there would be some tax liability if, during the WBB game, they had said played an ad for coming to the Big Game: "A reminder, fans: There will be no WBB game next weekend. Instead we invite you to the Nth Big Game here at Stanford Stadium, Saturday (time to be determined). Today's WBB ticket is worth a $2 discount on general admission seats. Come support your Cardinal to once again beat Cal." Of course, this should be cheap to advertise, and so the non-revenue sports could be advertised, in order to get new fans.

(But, I have to say, I tune out a lot of what they say or put up on the marquee... I'll feel pretty dumb if they did do such an ad but I missed it.)

If it were talking to the PR people, I'd point out any sustainability claim seems specious when cars are backed up for 40 minutes in the parking garage with motors running after a game. (After today's WVB match, I was in the driving lane for 34 minutes from the 3rd floor in the parking garage, and all the 4th floor was behind me.)