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No, no Farhan! - Phogge - 12-03-2019

Cuts Pillar. I may be done. Talks about Dugger who just can’t hit. A foolish move letting a fan favorite go, who gave 100% every day.


RE: No, no Farhan! - OutsiderFan - 12-03-2019

Foolsh how?  Do you want a winning team or to cheer for lovable losers? The Giants farted around for two years pretending to be contenders when they weren't, putting off a needed re-build anyone who was objective could see was needed. I was for trading Bumgarner last year, yet they held on to him and got a 2nd round pick by not even trading him this year, all to placate fans with unrealistic ideas of what the team was.

Pillar wasn't even a Giant for a full baseball season.  He's 31 years old.  Farhan is right.  Why would you pay $10M for a guy you don't see as a key cog when the team is contending again, so he can block players who might be developing into building blocks to get there?

What if Heliot Ramos starts hot in 2020 and gets called up?  Do you really want to see Pillar over him?  I love the fact that Crawford, Posey, and Belt aren't gonna like the re-build.  Maybe the Giants can eat some of their salaries and trade them and their terrible contracts.

Giants fans are a strange lot.  They fall in love with players easier than a teenager's first kiss.  They are branded as loyal, but are they really?  When they have the illusion of maybe contending, they show up, but when management is finally honest with them, wants to restructure the team because it isn't a contender and wants to make it into one, they shriek about letting fan favorite players go. Again, do they want lovable losers and just to beat the Dodgers 1/3 games, or do they want to eat their spinach and do some heavy lifting to get stronger so they might actually contend for real?


RE: No, no Farhan! - cardcrimson - 12-03-2019

.259 average and 21 home runs, and a great defensive center field? Seems like a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. . . .


RE: No, no Farhan! - BobK - 12-03-2019

I’m so with you Phogge. So po’d.

Outsider I don’t believe you go to games some of us do and do care.

Stupid move and we could have Pillar for one year.

Pillar was with the Giants for all but what 2 weeks ?


RE: No, no Farhan! - OutsiderFan - 12-03-2019

Before debating the merits of Pillar being on the roster or not, please explain what the objective you have for the 2020 Giants is, exactly.

Only then can any meaningful discussion be had. I have a sneaking suspicion that the "oh no, we're losing Pillar" crowd's objectives aren't grounded in reality, but let's see. Maybe I'm totally off base.


RE: No, no Farhan! - cardcrimson - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 09:11 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Before debating the merits of Pillar being on the roster or not, please explain what the objective you have for the 2020 Giants is, exactly.

Only then can any meaningful discussion be had. I have a sneaking suspicion that the "oh no, we're losing Pillar" crowd's objectives aren't grounded in reality, but let's see. Maybe I'm totally off base.

FWIW (which granted, is probably not a lot), the KNBR crew was not thrilled with the decision, either.


RE: No, no Farhan! - OutsiderFan - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 10:34 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:  
(12-03-2019, 09:11 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Before debating the merits of Pillar being on the roster or not, please explain what the objective you have for the 2020 Giants is, exactly.

Only then can any meaningful discussion be had. I have a sneaking suspicion that the "oh no, we're losing Pillar" crowd's objectives aren't grounded in reality, but let's see. Maybe I'm totally off base.

FWIW (which granted, is probably not a lot), the KNBR crew was not thrilled with the decision, either.

This post is begging the question.  What's the 2020 season goal?  And what is the ultimate objective?


RE: No, no Farhan! - BobK - 12-03-2019

OK to lose all and get the top draft choice. What a question


RE: No, no Farhan! - qwerty49 - 12-03-2019

Had to be about the money. $10M vs only 960k to keep Dickerson.

The 2nd Willie Mac award winner in recent years to get traded afterwards. (Matt Duffy in Aug 2016).

If there was a ready-made replacement in the wings, I could see it. I don’t. Duggar is a Judy up there.


RE: No, no Farhan! - BobK - 12-03-2019

Yaz will play CF. Still beyond stupid move. They better sign a great corner OFer


RE: No, no Farhan! - OutsiderFan - 12-03-2019

Since nobody can answer a very simple question apparently, let's spell this out in very simple terms.

The Giants are not a contending team in 2020, just like they weren't in 2019 or 2018. 
The Giants do not fear spending money after getting under the luxury tax, they print the stuff.
The Giants want to build a roster that can contend consistently with a solid foundation.
The Giants have some of the highest paid and least productive players in MLB, for 2-3 more seasons.
The Giants have Samarzdija (35) and Cueto (34) as their best starting Pitchers at the moment, and both are likely to be traded.
The Giants want to use 2020 to evaluate younger players who might be pieces they want to keep when they are contending.

Posey, Belt, Crawford, Longoria Samarzdija and Cueto aren't good enough to build a contending team around. So why go through the exercise of trying when it is going to be futile? It's bad enough that these guys all being paid >$15M+ are going to play and block younger players. Why would you want to add another 31+ YO Centerfielder who isn't going to make the team a contender, for an extra $10M? If they were contending, the Giants very well might keep Pillar, but they are not contending this year. 

Again, money is really no object for the Giants, but why overpay when doing so is going to slow the timeline to becoming a contender again?  It literally makes zero sense, unless you just like going to games and are OK with seeing mediocre MLB and don't really care about winning much. The sooner the rebuilding can begin in earnest, the sooner the team will be contending again.  Isn't that what fans ultimately want?


RE: No, no Farhan! - qwerty49 - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 02:18 PM)BobK Wrote:  Yaz will play CF.    Still beyond stupid move.  They better sign a great corner OFer

I guess we’ll find out how much range Yaz has. Apparently Pillar’s defensive metrics have declined the last 2 years.

Hard to give up 21 HRs though, especially on this club.


RE: No, no Farhan! - magnus - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 02:56 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:  Hard to give up 21 HRs though, especially on this club.

I dunno, with balls flying the way they did last year,  21 HRs feels like below replacement level.  

Granted,  combined with good defense that becomes an asset (barely?), but I agree with Outsider.  If the goal is to rebuild,  might as well save money and try to uncover a diamond in the rough.  Pillar will likely be in heavy decline in a year or two given how hard he plays.


RE: No, no Farhan! - cardcrimson - 12-03-2019

Well, 21 was tied for the most on the team, tho Yaz played fewer games than Pillar. Team high in 2018 was 16. Also, why give up on a guy that plays hard and still plays effectively?

(12-03-2019, 03:40 PM)magnus Wrote:  
(12-03-2019, 02:56 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:  Hard to give up 21 HRs though, especially on this club.

I dunno, with balls flying the way they did last year,  21 HRs feels like below replacement level.  

Granted,  combined with good defense that becomes an asset (barely?), but I agree with Outsider.  If the goal is to rebuild,  might as well save money and try to uncover a diamond in the rough.  Pillar will likely be in heavy decline in a year or two given how hard he plays.



RE: No, no Farhan! - Giants - 12-03-2019

Nick Castellanos is the answer.

The starting OF next year - Dickerson, Yaz, Castellanos

Sad to Pillar go but I certainly understand the rationale.  It has nothing to do with money.  It is all about positioning the to make a run in 2021.  Pillar would have been gone by then since 2020 is his final year of arb. eligibility.


RE: No, no Farhan! - Mick - 12-03-2019

All I can say is thank God that Farhan is in charge of the Giants roster instead of Brian Murphy or frankly anyone who thinks we should have retained Pillar.

Some things we should be aware of:

- He had the fourth worst OBP among 136 position players in the NL.

- He played the deepest centerfield in the NL.  Because he was a bad fielder.  He ranked 12th of 14 center fielders in the NL, but boy he sure looked sweet when he laid it out on routine fly balls!

- He's old.  He turns 31 in January, same age as when Posey, Crawford and the other formerly great/currently mediocre Giants hit the skids.

- Yes, 21 HRs and 88 RBIs.  Most HRs in his career by a margin.  Most RBIs in his career by an almost ridiculous margin.  Is he going to achieve those again?  Maybe...will they use the same baseballs?  The Giants had 167 HRs overall (but gave up 238), which is their second-most in the last 20 years, but they were still the third worst in the league.  Which means that Pillar benefited from juiced baseballs.

- He costs $10 million per year.


RE: No, no Farhan! - Phogge - 12-03-2019

OF, where did you play? Got any idea of a clubhouse presence? The guy was a PLAYER. The hardest working player they had on the roster. Belt has negative body language, Pillar oozes guts. Stupid move.


RE: No, no Farhan! - cardcrimson - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 06:25 PM)Giants Wrote:  Nick Castellanos is the answer.

The starting OF next year - Dickerson, Yaz, Castellanos

Sad to Pillar go but I certainly understand the rationale.  It has nothing to do with money.  It is all about positioning the to make a run in 2021.  Pillar would have been gone by then since 2020 is his final year of arb. eligibility.

Didn't realize the Giants signed Castellanos. . . .

Can Yaz repeat?

Can Dickerson stay on the field?

Two big ifs. . . .Pillar at least was a known quantity and a leader to inspire the young pups.


RE: No, no Farhan! - OutsiderFan - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 06:34 PM)Phogge Wrote:  OF, where did you play? Got any idea of a clubhouse presence? The guy was a PLAYER. The hardest working player they had on the roster. Belt has negative body language, Pillar oozes guts. Stupid move.

Mick just laid out even more reasons bringing Pillar back makes no sense. Clubhouse presence is important when your team is competing to be in a playoff hunt, not when it is finishing in last place, which is where the Giants will end up in 2020. The Dodgers, D-Backs, Rockies, and Padres will all be better, with or without Pillar.

I get it, fans like the hustle and professionalism, but Pillar doesn’t contribute to enough wins to justify having him for $10M/yr while blocking younger players with more upside potential from playing.


RE: No, no Farhan! - cardcrimson - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 06:47 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Clubhouse presence is important when your team is competing to be in a playoff hunt, not when it is finishing in last place,

Sure. Just tell that to Crash Davis and Nuke Larouche. . .